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Is there any party or person worth voting for in modern-day Irish politics?

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    #32
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,704 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088109#Comment_121088109

    They can't control the judiciary, that was my point.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088111#Comment_121088111

    Removing those delays isn't free. If you can't realise that, you are only continuing to delude yourself that a party can come out of nowhere and promise you everything.



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    #33
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,704 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088114#Comment_121088114

    Yeah, no, that's a far-right point there. Sorry. One half of it far more so than the other, but both far-right.

    As soon as you start talking about "bogus" or "illegal" asylum seekers you've fallen in to the far right circles. The State can get quicker at deciding on valid versus invalid claims, but the "bogus" language ruins any attempt to be rational about it.

    Other Western European countries taking in proportionally lower number of Ukranian refugees are generally established NATO members contributing military aid to Ukraine. We aren't. A part proposing to cut those numbers would only get votes from Russian apologists, and hence the ultra far right.



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    #34
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,073 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088115#Comment_121088115

    It takes one month to install an offshore wind turbine, it takes 6-7 years to get the permissions.

    I feel it should be possible to reduce the 6-7 years.

    You disagree.

    Why?



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    #35
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,704 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088118#Comment_121088118

    It can't be done for free.

    What you want is not a centre right party, it's a unicorn.



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    #36
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,073 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    If a pol party wants to reduce the number of UKR refugees to equal the ratio per person in DE and FR -- that is "far-right"?

    I disagree.


    image.png




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    #37
    DownByTheGarden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086541#Comment_121086541

    Couldnt possibly complain as much as im complaining now about those who I did vote for tbh.



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    #38
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,009 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086357#Comment_121086357

    The problem, as Lucinda Creighton discovered, is as soon you start pitching your party as in any sense conservative or right-wing, or even centrist, you automatically become a magnet for this sort of headbanger

    people who are obsessed with Abortion and other social issues

    and put off the mainstream right-of-centre voters. This guy has some sage advice for any aspiring centre-right candidates

    https://joblog.substack.com/p/how-to-be-the-controlled-immigration

     if I'm actually looking for a way to throw away my chances then that one couldn't be easier. I'd just have to talk about Covid, vaccines, the world economic forum, Klaus Schwab, excess mortality, international finance or the freemasons. Mention any of them and the fat lady starts singing.



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    #39
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    I reckon I'll spoil my vote. There is no straight talking , non spoofer in the Dáil, prepared to look after the taxpayer and sort out the endless farce that bedivil this country... I'd laugh if a credible fourth force emerged in irish politics... one that would canabalise fg in particular, a party that ours the taxpayers first. Fg are more concerned with the welfare vote than taxpayers at this stage.. Ireland " right wing " partly... LOL!



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    #40
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,521 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121110921#Comment_121110921


    I thought you emigrated? You had a big thread about it saying you had enough of the place or something. You may as well. Sounds like you hate the place.



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    #41
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112285#Comment_121112285

    That's the plan in a few years...

    Ffg - light on crime. Rough n the taxpayer. No new heavy rail lines installed since British rule. Poor on the environment. Awful infrastructure. Health. Can't even defend ourselves, airspace or waters... mass vote spoiling is the best way to register our disgust



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    #42
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,521 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112322#Comment_121112322


    Literally nobody will take a blind bit of notice spoiled votes.

    By all means do it if it makes you feel better but that's about the only thing it will accomplish.



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    #43
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112547#Comment_121112547

    Many people are sick of the system and the idiots that run for it here. A huge increase in spoiled votes, wouldn't go unnoticed...



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    #44
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112612#Comment_121112612

    It would be ignored totally by everyone.

    It would be different if spoiled votes were counted towards the quota, but they are not. They are just ignored.



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    #45
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    A spoiled vote is a spoiled vote; it means absolutely nothing - except I guess to the person doing the spoiling but it would have precisely zero quantitive effect on the vote, or the politics falling out from it. The only situation where mass spoiled votes might have an effect would require a buy-in by such a huge percentage of the voting population as to render the idea pure fantasy.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112322#Comment_121112322

    Can't even defend ourselves, airspace or waters

    From whom should we be able to defend ourselves? However burdened you think the taxpayer is now, you think it'll be better if we're to fund an armed forces "capable" of defending our territory?



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    #46
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,461 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112612#Comment_121112612

    That's probably true, a huge increase in spoiled votes may well have some political impact.

    But what does a huge increase mean? A ten-fold increase would probably be a reasonable figure to consider as "huge". In 2020, there were around 17,000 spoiled votes (which nobody took the slightest bit of notice of). If there was an organised protest movement that resulted in 170,000 spoiled votes in the next election, that would be noticed. For context, that's more votes than the Green Party got. It would make the "spoilers" the fourth biggest political group, after the big three of FG, FF and SF.

    Of course, that begs the question: if you could put together a movement that could obtain 170,000 votes, why wouldn't you form a political party that would actually get elected from those votes?

    And that's why no-one will pay any attention whatsoever to spoiled votes.

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    #47
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,920 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112322#Comment_121112322

    *complains about taxes*

    *calls for policies which will require large increases in taxes*

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #48
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312647/is-there-any-party-or-person-worth-voting-for-in-modern-day-irish-politics

    I was brought up in the house of grand uncle, a veteran of the Irish war of independence, in old age it was his custom on election day to sit out in front of his house and ask passers by if they had cast their vote, if the answer was yes, that is where it ended. If the answer was no, he'd give you a lecture...

    First he'd point out that in casting your vote, you honour the dead generations that went before you, most likely your grand parents or great grand parents at this stag, who thought your right to express your opinion on how the country is governed was so precious that they were willing to pay the ultimate price to win you the right to do so. And in his case he saw his best friend shot dead during an ambush of the Border Regiment.

    He'd also explain to you that not voting or spoiling your vote is a complete was of the one opportunity you have to make your views know as nobody cares about what your opinion is when you do either of those things. He'd further explain the reason why they picked the PR system over the UK FPP system - it allows you to express both a positive and negative opinion. By carefully using the preferences, voters can send a message, even to a sitting TD. So go and vote candidates in the order of which one you'd least like to represent you in the Dail.



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    #49
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    While a single spoiled vote makes no difference, if there was a large-scale spoiling of votes by people who ordinarily don't vote, it would make a big impact. Let's say instead of 65% turnout, you had 75% turnout with 10% of the vote spoiled, it would be a clear signal that a significant % of the population don't feel represented by the parties available. Personally, I don't see it happening though



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    #50
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,260 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121113212#Comment_121113212

    Yea, but the point is if we even take 1% as a baseline that's a big enough group that they could would be worth going after by one or more main parties. Heck even at 170k spoiled votes you'd be talking enough to take a seat or two if coordinated and that's where the idea fails. We hear a lot of noise on boards but the reality is there's not an organization or interest to actually do anything about it and hence they can safely be ignored by the parties.

    Post edited by Nody on


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    #51
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121113102#Comment_121113102

    Lol! One ir two billion a year a large increase in taxes? They are finding it down the back of the couch with their various tax bonanza... does increasing welfare every year costing billions, are they increasing the tax rates to fund that ?



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    #52
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    " First he'd point out that in casting your vote, you honour the dead generations that went before you, most likely your grand parents or great grand parents at this stag, who thought your right to express your opinion on how the country is governed was so precious that they were willing to pay the ultimate price to win you the right to do so. And in his case he saw his best friend shot dead during an ambush of the Border Regiment."


    The likes of Collins etc are the absolute other end of the spectrum compared to the sell out weak weasels we can choose to elect... compare national heroes Collins to varadkar etc , literally extremes...

    There will be a huge increase in vote spoiling this election. Short of starting a new party, its the only tool left... this might spur ssome new parties into action. All of the current lot are literally identical, they offer no proper differentiation...



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    #53
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,461 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114779#Comment_121114779

    There will be a huge increase in vote spoiling this election

    Why? There has never been any remotely successful intentional spoiled vote movement, despite it always being predicted on Boards. In fact, spoiled votes have been steadily decreasing in every Irish election since 2002 (apart from possibly 2011, which I can't find the figures for):

            Spoiled    Total        Spoiled %
2002    20,707    1,878,609    1.10225
2007    19,435    2,085,245    0.93202
2011    N/A
2016    18,398    2,151,293    0.85521
2020    17,703    2,201,192    0.80424

    So in the last five elections, we've seen a consistent downward trend of spoiled votes, but you think that this time, the protest vote is really going to happen?

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    #54
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,920 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114745#Comment_121114745

    Taking defence alone, getting to NATO expenditure level would be several billion a year. (even more in the first few years, because we are starting from practically zero in terms of equipment and facilities)

    Lol indeed.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #55
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115039#Comment_121115039

    How blatant this whole sham here on, the government, the opposition... I think mamy people are fed up.. there is zero chance we get any proper change here with the current offering... too afraid of the civil servants, the status quo etc...



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    #56
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,920 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yawn

    Cliched old rubbish

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #57
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114779#Comment_121114779

    Your point of political comparison is a 100 year old army general? Someone who died before they lived long enough to tarnish their legacy through actual, pragmatic governance?

    Don't think there are too many fans of Varadkar around here but nostalgically pining for the days of mythic Irish rebellion is gonna yield nothing. Look forwards, stop idolising the past like it was perfection. Deifying icons of history won't solve problems of today.



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    #58
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Varadkar barely got in the last time. His constituency going out and making sure he doesn't get elected, same with mm might be a useful tool to get them to make progress on issues rather than regress. People here may shout down my solutions, what's yours? More of the same shite?



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    #59
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115079#Comment_121115079

    Other Countries deem it with the spend... the difference is they don't support mental welfare rates and appalling infrastructure etc over basics like defence



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    #60
    Heraclius
    Registered Users Posts: 733 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119376#Comment_121119376

    That's not true though. He got 20% of the first preference vote and was elected on the fifth count.



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    #61
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,704 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119376#Comment_121119376

    You are just showing ignorance of STV here. Varadkar had a running mate which split his forst preference votes

    His election was as valid as being elected on the first count or on the last count; as that is how our electoral system works



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