Is there any party or person worth voting for in modern-day Irish politics?

Ardent · 07-09-2023 11:12am #1

I was just thinking to myself -

If there was a general election tomorrow, it would be the first time in my life I wouldn't bother to vote.

I would consider myself a centrist.

Can't vote for Fianna Fail because I'll never forgive them for the corruption and bankrupting the country.
Can't vote for Sinn Fein because of their paramilitary past and their pie-in-the-sky, populist Robin Hood proposals.
Can't vote for Labour because they have a lunatic, rabid feminist leading them now.
Can't vote for Fine Gael because they have a recent track record of placing unqualified, lazy and incompetent buffoons into ministerial positions.
Can't vote for most of the independents as they belong to the looney left.

Am I missing anything?

suvigirl · 07-09-2023 11:27am

Social democrats?

EchoIndia · 07-09-2023 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312647/is-there-any-party-or-person-worth-voting-for-in-modern-day-irish-politics

Most of your reasons for not being willing to support one party or another don't seem to have much to do with policy.

Allinall · 07-09-2023 11:31am

Sounds like you have no interest in who runs the country.

Thats fine, but your subsequent complaints will amount to nothing more than shaking your fist at the sky.

CrookedJack · 07-09-2023 11:36am

You're missing the point that by not voting you're ruling out trying to get the least worst solution. instead, you're making it no more beneficial for a politician to lean in what you think are sensible directions. You're fundamentally misunderstanding representative democracies.

That is if you're asking in good faith. It's much more likely you're doing the cynical, trumpian ploy of trying to say all politicians (or media outlets, or experts) are as bad as one another. The purpose being to both dissuade the moderate voter from voting for anyone and also make the lunatic fringe seem more mainstream.

Brussels Sprout · 07-09-2023 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312647/is-there-any-party-or-person-worth-voting-for-in-modern-day-irish-politics

You sound right-wing. You should just own it.

If you don't want to vote FG then there are plenty of right-wing independents around the country (any of the Rural Independent Group for example). Failing that you can vote for one of the far-right micro parties.

If kind of sounds like you're looking for some idyllic party who satisfy all of your demands. That's not really going to happen. So you can either choose the least worst option for you or you can just not vote.

Lollipop95 · 07-09-2023 4:46pm

What about the Soc Dems? Holly Cairns is a great leader imo. If you don't vote and FF/FG get in, you can't then complain about the way the country is. I'm of the opinion that Sinn Féin deserve a chance and I'll certainly be either giving them or the Soc Dems my #1 in the next GE.

Geuze · 07-09-2023 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312647/is-there-any-party-or-person-worth-voting-for-in-modern-day-irish-politics

I know how you feel.

Maybe the answer is to vote for the party that you dislike the least?

Geuze · 07-09-2023 6:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312647/is-there-any-party-or-person-worth-voting-for-in-modern-day-irish-politics

Plenty of independents are not looney-left

BlueSkyDreams · 07-09-2023 6:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081522#Comment_121081522

What do you think Sinn Fein will do differently, vs the current gov?

BlueSkyDreams · 07-09-2023 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081977#Comment_121081977

It is odd that there isnt a centre right party in reland anymore.

You would think that a party that was serious on crime, housing, control of immigiration and prioritisation of working folks over non-working folks would go down a storm in the current climate.

But it seems nobody wants to stand on that podium.

Geuze · 07-09-2023 6:46pm

Yes, that's what FG should be.

Furze99 · 07-09-2023 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081522#Comment_121081522

The Soc Dems are a split from Labour, Roisín got herself in a twist and decided to go off and have her own party.

I'll see if Labour are running anyone here again next election and what their policies are. Of the various parties, still one of the few choices. That and like minded independents.

Perversely, though I've never voted FF, I could throw their local TD a vote this time. As a bulwark against SF getting in.

Lollipop95 · 07-09-2023 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082003#Comment_121082003

I think they will attempt to sort out the housing crisis for once and cut down the price of accommodation. Not immediately of course, but I feel like Mary Lou is very genuine and actually wants to make a difference. I don't get that vibe off Leo Varadkar. On a personal level, Michaél Martin comes across like a nice person but FF have been in government on and off for years and just haven't made any kind of real change. Sinn Féin might be the same of course, but I'm curious to see how they would fare being in charge and if they can live up to their promises.

Geuze · 07-09-2023 8:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082227#Comment_121082227

I would love if SF can sort out the housing crisis.

Do they have specific policies to increase the number of: blocklayers, carpenters, plumbers, electricians?

Do they have policies to reduce the costs of sites, and the costs of finance for property development?

This seems to be their policy document:

https://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2022/Delivering_Affordable_Homes.pdf

I can't see any policy to boost the supply of labour?

What I see is compulsory movement of labour away from commercial construction to residential.

Fr Tod Umptious · 07-09-2023 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082227#Comment_121082227

I think they will attempt to sort out the housing crisis for once and cut down the price of accommodation.

Not going to happen, unless they change tac on their support for tennants and evictions.

Their very pro tennant stance will drive smaller landlords out of the market.

Plus I doubt they will be giving any incentives to the building trade to make it worth their while to start building again.

BlueSkyDreams · 07-09-2023 9:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082227#Comment_121082227

I hope youre right but wishful thinking I think :)

SF wont bring the cost of housing down by handing more properties to the social housing list. This will make the remaining properties for sale even more expensive for buyers, as supply decreases.

To increase output, they would need to invest heavily in council home building, but I dont think they have any plans to do that and it would take a lot of investment to enable.

In short, you probably wont see any uptick in new home completions over the next 5 years or so, if SF get in.

But it will likley be even harder for working folks to get a place, as SF prioritise social housing over private rents for average salaried folks.

A lot of current working people will realise that the current govt are a case of "better the devil you know", sadly.

Ardent · 07-09-2023 9:58pm

To the poster querying whether or not I was asking this question in good faith -

Yes I am. I think most people would agree that current Irish political landscape makes for a very poor vista.

I sometimes wonder if voting for Sinn Fein would be a good thing, i.e., a shock to the system for the longer term good. But not sure if I could bring myself to that.

Sad state of affairs.

pixelburp · 08-09-2023 12:20pm

Talk about a "lunatic, rabid feminist" leading Labour and the "looney left" betrays this might be another iteration of a discussion that eventually crystallises into the true lament that there's no openly right-wing parties.

And the answer as always remains: those parties don't exist, because hardline social or economic right-wing politics isn't palatable to the Irish electorate; and when those parties do appear like Renua or the National Party, they barely register on election night.

I think our crop of parties is exactly what more countries could do with: bland, centrist porridge that's more interested in stability than populism. Now, the flip-side is that a collective allergy to change has resulted in much of the rot that has infected institutions like the HSE et al - but I'll take the sometimes frustration of smal iterative changes over big swings & rotating-door cabinets.

Geuze · 08-09-2023 4:31pm

Nobody wants "hardline" far-right parties, and as you say, they do very badly, yes.

A centre-right party would be nice though?

As BlueSkyDreams said:

You would think that a party that was serious on crime, housing, control of immigiration and prioritisation of working folks over non-working folks would go down a storm in the current climate.

That's what I'm looking for.

Actually reform Judges and laws to actually deal with criminals
massively increase the supply of housing
bring bogus AS numbers to zero / reduce UKR refugees to be in line with norms across western EU
don't have people on 40k, below median earnings, face 48.5% marginal tax rates

I see sheep · 08-09-2023 4:42pm

Boards members always winging about the lack of right wing parties should set up their own one surely?

I'm sure you'd easily break 0.01% of the vote.

downtheroad · 08-09-2023 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082851#Comment_121082851

SF will get in for 1 period. If they even last 5 years will be interesting. They won't deliver any housing of note. And FG/FF will waltz back in at the following election.

People will speak of The Simpsons predicting the future...it will be a carbon copy of Homer becoming sanitation commissioner, only to be replaced by Ray Patterson after he royally screws things up.

Wanderer78 · 08-09-2023 4:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086046#Comment_121086046

....its very important to realise what our current governmental parties are actually truly in favour of, particularly in regards housing, its the more financialised approach, and its working perfectly....

Brussels Sprout · 08-09-2023 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121084671#Comment_121084671

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and state that the big mistake that all of those failed/failing parties make is that they are populated with people who are obsessed with Abortion and other social issues. That's an electoral dead-end. The people who voted against the Same Sex Marriage and Abortion ferenda are mostly older voters whose votes are locked in to FF/FG/Rural Independents.

I don't actually know if there is an appetite for a newer iteration of the PDs out there. I do know though that those other parties weren't it. You're not going to get a new party off the ground in this country if you immediately alienate everyone under 45 which is what those parties did/have done.

DownByTheGarden · 08-09-2023 5:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312647/is-there-any-party-or-person-worth-voting-for-in-modern-day-irish-politics

I would have to agree with you 100%. Im not going to bother voting next time.

L1011 · 08-09-2023 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086046#Comment_121086046

Your list there is impossible

You are not going to find a party that delivers item 2 while also doing 3 or 4. Market intervention to get private builders building costs money so can't happen with 4, social housing won't happen with a party that's pushing for 3

You will not find a party offering 3 that isn't far-right; it is not something a centre right party will say.

And 1 is unconstitutional - the Government cannot influence the judiciary.

Pauliedragon · 08-09-2023 5:54pm

I have no political affiliation but I do think 5 years between elections is too long. They have too much time to be comfortable and just plod along. 4 years gives them a year to settle in 2 years of hard graft and as we all know the year before a GE it's all election mode and promises so nothing gets done.