What are people's reactions to today's proposed speed limit changes?

macraignil

I am all for appropriate speed limits to be in force on the roads. To be honest I see the current limits on the roads I drive on to be fairly good with maybe one junction that could have a mandatory reduced speed section introduced due to the spot being a known place for recurrent accidents. Other roads I regularly drive on have already had speed limit reductions.

The experiences I have had on the roads that look to be the most dangerous to me have been getting over taken by an impatient driver who is not content to stay driving at the existing limit and overtakes at points on the road where is not safe to do so. This has happened in both directions for me when at other times I have seen an oncoming driver overtaking and on my side of the road meaning I have had to slow to avoid a head on collision. I'm afraid these new blanket speed limit reductions will make these overtaking events even more of a problem and would much prefer to see a targeted approach to have speed limits reduced at specific sections of road which are known to be dangerous. Any one else have any observations to make on the proposed changes?

Damien360

Some of it makes sense. How many times have you come to what amounts to a boreen with a 80kmph limit on it. You wouldn't safely do 30 on it.

But, equally there are perfectly safe and large roads with nonsense low limits on it.

It should be 30 in town centres where you expect pedestrians, not 50.

As for dangerous sections of road, why don't we fix that instead of putting a black spot on a sign, a speedvan and a lower limit.

Road signage is hidden by trees and not cleaned on junctions at all here but across the border that is regularly done.

I drive for a living and sometimes very slow drivers are a genuine danger to themselves and others. In another world would be appropriate. You could argue maybe everyone should do 30kmph on a 100 and we would all be safe but that's simply not feasible no matter how you look at it.

They're a good start, more needed

magicbastarder

thread in the roads forum here:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312485/gov-plans-to-reduce-speed-limits

Wibbs

It's the usual current government's global kneejerk on the back of current events hoping to use said events to make it look like We're Actually Doing Something(tm), handily deflecting attention away from many areas where We're Actually Doing Sweet Fúck All(tm). Forget an actual look at the stats, or real solutions for the thankfully rare tragedies that still happen. & always will. The curtain twitchers, sandal wearing bedwetters and bicycle seat sniffers will love it because they're a simple folk and as such simple kneejerks appeal, so that's what's left of the Green party vote, but it's not going to do a damn thing to stop the tragedies of teens hopped up on goofballs wrapping a car around a tree at 3 AM on a country road, or the "single vehicle accidents" in the same wee hours, nor change the lack of enforcement for the pretty comprehensive laws already on the books.

NIMAN

I just hope it's not a blanket change for every 100km/h or 80km/h Road in the country.

I heard today that local councils can still leave them unchanged.

On my commute I spend a lot of time on an 80km/h road, then move on to a 100km/h road. To drive them 20km/h slower would be way too slow for the quality of road that they are.

I appreciate that these changes are aimed at some tiny backroads that have 80km/h limits on them, so hopefully common sense will prevail.

1874

Agree with some posters here, dangerous overtaking by impatient drivers, will be worsened, more so than it is already. I'm inclined to think some recent crashes had to have had aspects of excessively high speed and poor decisions at bad locations, where a reduced speed limit might benefit, but to blanket reduce speed limits regardless of location just shows what anyone with an ounce of sense can see, makes it look like something is actually being done, when the only thing being done is likely worsening existing problems, no enforcement for the careless overtaking impatient maniacs,improving roads & signage,correcting inappropriate speed limits on bohereens for sure,but with existing enforcement, this just pushes more people into breaking limits when they become impractical and you end up holding up traffic and become a hazard following them. Knee jerk from the idiots making this decision, collect more revenue and get to think its working when nothing actually changes.

mazdamiatamx5

Clearly and obviously, virtue signalling nonsense. And that's speaking as a regular cyclist who currently doesn't even own a car.

Knee jerk bs, I can only assume the parents of the unfortunate kids that died in Tipp recently are from wealthy F/FG backgrounds, if four young people died in a car crash in Ballymun the establishment wouldn't give a b.ollocks.

mazdamiatamx5

Wibbs on the ball, as usual.

What is interesting and somewhat sinister is that that the media reportage, immediately, was along the lines of "very dangerous junction, something needs to be done, appalling tragedy, won't someone please think of the children, if you havent signed the book of condolences youre a bad person" lines etc. no mention of drugs, alcohol etc. There's a class war aspect to the reporting that is disturbing. If four kids from Finglas died in a car smash, you can guarantee that the media would be telling us that one of the deceased was 'known to Gardai' etc. And there certainly wouldn't be any changes in government policy as a result.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078920#Comment_121078920

I'm pretty sure the family where the grandparents and child died were travellers actually, hardly wealthy FG diehards

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078924#Comment_121078924

His

The curtain twitchers, sandal wearing bedwetters and bicycle seat sniffers will love it because they're a simple folk and as such simple kneejerks appeal, so that's what's left of the Green party vote

Is kinda funny. Because there has been a near universal reaction that the change will be meaningless because there's no suggestion that Garda numbers will be increased to actually enforce any change. But he clearly wanted a little pop.

TedBundysDriver

Green party driven claptrap. They want to make it virtually impossible for people to drive. I don't buy the "it's too save lives" nonsense at all tbh. Road deaths have been coming down consistently over the last 20 years or so.

magicbastarder

Green party driven claptrap. 

The proposals will shortly be brought to Cabinet by Minister of State for road safety Jack Chambers

Has Jack chambers jumped ship?

dvdman1

I don't understand how a number on a metal sign will save any lives. The proliferation of 50 signs hasn't made any difference...The culture and the person at the wheel is ultimately the thing that needs influencing and changing...

A professional campaign of adds e.g. children walking between parked cars... reversing in car parks without checking in a rush. The amount of children I've seen with no child seat or an improper one is astonishing.

Why isn't road safety or driving an optional subject at school, this would be a game changer

This would have more weight

magicbastarder

How would they teach driving at school? The cost would be beyond eye watering.

Kimbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079014#Comment_121079014

I think they are referring to the crash a few days before that one in clonmel where they were going out to celebrate their leaving results.

Ash.J.Williams

I guess the engineers reports of those recent tragedies will never be released and those fatalities are all our faults

whisky_galore

Completely useless without enforcement. Window dressing.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079144#Comment_121079144

I guess if people were at fault those reports would never be released either, out of sensitivity or "victim blaming" even if the victim were to blame.

magicbastarder

i saw on twitter earlier that the number of gardai in cork city is 24 lower than it was in 2019. and numbers are continuing to decline (with an upswing in the pipeline if this is to be believed, but not as much as had been hoped)

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/07/04/garda-numbers-continue-to-decline-as-resignations-and-retirements-accelerate/

niallb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079035#Comment_121079035

Well, he's not steering it!

magicbastarder

the two ministers who are most visible in the last few days on this issue are helen mcentee, and jack chambers. so both FF and FG are puppets, with their strings being pulled by eamon ryan.

meanwhile, green party activists are left confused again, wondering 'how can people accuse us of being so ineffectual yet be able to wield such power at the same time?'

Waste of time with zero enforcement. The high profile car crashes lately have all been in rural areas. Will Dublin speed limits now be changed?

There is a 60kmh speed limit on the N32 in Dublin, what is effectively a dual carriageway from Northern Cross to the M50. Country bohreens with grass growing in the road have speed limits of 80kmh. Moronic.

magicbastarder

there was a measure introduced 7 years ago to allow county councils to address the issue of 80km/h signs on boreens. but it seems to be an example of another measure they're not making use of:

https://assets.gov.ie/34749/59cea27176234ae38ebe38d24d1b8082.pdf

"This created situations where a speed limit of 80 km/h was displayed on many roads where it wasn’t safe to drive at that speed. This sign seeks to remove the visual ‘target’"

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079196#Comment_121079196

I think not so much puppets as cowards.

Baba Yaga

yeah speed is a bit of a factor but theres quite a few fcukwits driving our roads and in my opinion thats a major cause of crashes,we all see it every day,cutting into lanes at the last second,passing on bends,hill crests etc,phone use is off the charts,running red lights,i could go on all day...whats badly needed is a garda presence,not just on the roads but every where else too and all the time,not just for a few days after something happens.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079028#Comment_121079028

sandal wearing bedwetters and seat sniffers. that's pretty pathetic.

Stephen_Maturin

Voted for the Greens last two elections - had so much hope. They’d a strong mandate to bring Ireland into the 21st century for energy, production, revamp our public transport system and begin restoring our native forests.

Instead they’ve focused on pearl clutching nanny state measures and importing people for whom we’ve no accommodation.

They've shown themselves to be a bunch of out of touch pussies. Won’t vote for them again.

On a separate note Jack Chambers is unimaginative ventriloquist’s puppet cut from the usual FF cloth of “I can’t possibly think of any solutions or even understand the issue so we’ll ban or curtail that unnecessarily harshly.” Micháel will be immensely proud to see his teachings carried on.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078504#Comment_121078504

"Some of it makes sense. How many times have you come to what amounts to a boreen with a 80kmph limit on it. You wouldn't safely do 30 on it."

That is completely irrelevant. People in general don't drive at 80kph on such 'boreens'. They take it handy and use their sense to adapt their speed. I live in a rural area and speed limits as such aren't even a passing thought as you drive expecting someone to appear round the bend coming up or that someone may pull out of a field.

There will always be the very odd idiot, who is going too quick but a) they soon learn, get a kick up the ass or a fright and slow down or b) they're the sort who couldn't give a crap about anyone, likely uninsured etc and banned off the road already.

DarkJager21

Absolute kneejerk horseshit as usual, accidents happen and people die - that's life. Making commutes for everyone across the country even more of a pain in the balls is not going to stop accidents - accidents happen, that's life.

And to add to this, maybe they'd be better off cutting back on this "biodiversity" shite they do every summer of letting hedges overgrow all over the place. Some of the most dangerous country roads are made even more dangerous for the sake of a few bees, **** ridiculous.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078504#Comment_121078504

I'd largely agree with that and I think its just another knee jerk reaction press release to get the PR and be seen to be doing something

And that something is more than likely whatever is the easiest thing to do that looks like the issue is bring tackled and you can have a press conference about.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078589#Comment_121078589

I hadn't read this when I posted but yep, my sentiments exactly

Also the tosspots know they are going to get a kicking next time around and

A) want to heap more bullshit on the plebs as they see them

B) want to give a bit of kicking back...even the tone of some of the statements was very you've all been bold and will have to sit on the naughty step

C) Absolutely don't want to acknowledge other contributory factors or do anything difficult like go after certain cohorts and tackle problems...punish scrotes involved, dig a bit deeper into contributory factors, go after the eejits with the dropped suspension hairdryer engined, coke can exhausted **** spec golfs with the bodywork leaving a layer of paint on the road, tackle specific problem areas with reduced limits, do remedial works on small problem areas (I know of several spots on a local road with dangerously off camber surfacing) etc etc etc....but know its more fines, more regs more money harvesting and hand wringing about why the situation isn't improving...but let's continue doing the same **** that didn't work before

D) incompetence

E) Leave a .ess for the next gombeens stepping up to the plate

Some combo

Plain stupid, rather than getting councils to perform a review of the roads in their area and reduce speed limits in high risk areas we get a blanket reduction in speed limits.

tesla_newbie

usual “ we must be seen to be doing something “ by FF and FG ( following the recent high profile Tipperary tragedies) but the Greens can’t get enough of nanny statism

its not necessary, we have a low rate of road deaths relative to most countries, we offer an Air BnB service and our guests always comment on how civilised drivers are here

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078920#Comment_121078920

I think you might be right there. It was so fast that all the officials were coming out on that one and even on the news reports and interviews they were all saying "lets remember that the driver did absolutely nothing wrong here. It was probably the weather or the weight of the car. It wasnt his fault."

That kind of statement spreading out among the airwaves would not normally happen. There would be an investogation as to the cause and then the statement would be made if it was true. I remember sitting listening to the various reports and interviews on this think how odd, there must be a connection to some gardai or powerful people for this statement to be doing the rounds the day after the crash.

randd1

Just because a road is 80km/ph, it doesn't mean everyone actually drives at 80 km/ph on those roads constantly. It's a limit you're not meant to cross, not a legal requirement to drive at that speed.

When I'm driving on those roads, or even some parts of the national roads, which is every day, I rarely hit the 80 or 100 km/ph speed limits apart from straight sections with a clear view of what's ahead, simply because a) I know the road and know the dangerous areas and slow down accordingly and b) I'm paying attention to the road, and what dangers may pop up. Which is the same for pretty much every driver in the country every day.

I would suggest the people talking about the speed limit changes don't regularly drive these type of roads because if they did, they'd understand that.

I would also suggest it's mostly political posturing with no real intent to change anything at all, and done solely for the purpose of pretending to give a damn about road safety in the aftermath of a week which is very much the exception rather than the rule in terms of the road carnage, ie politicians using tragedy for self promotion.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079585#Comment_121079585

It's similar to the kicking men were getting after the murder of a white person last year

Photobox

Totally agree its a kneejerk reaction. Typical of our government to be seen to do something. Like everything. There is a stretch of country road I drive regularly. Its built up with lots of houses and a shop. Its a 50 limit, signs everywhere reminding you, think of the community etc, most times there is a driver right up behind me when I do the 50. Brake at all and they are going into the back of you. They could make it a 20 limit and nothing would change. Unless people stop doing this nothing will change. Which is never.

howiya

This isn't a kneejerk reaction. The publication of it may be kneejerk but its been coming regardless.

"The speed limit review is a key part of the Government’s road safety strategy. A review group was established in late 2021 chaired by the Department of Transport and including representatives of the NTA, TII, local authorities, the RSA and An Garda Síochána."

To the point made by @[Deleted User] this would have given them plenty of time to review individual roads rather than implement a blanket reduction. However they clearly just want to take the lazy way out.

I'd be surprised if this gets introduced before the next general election.

BrianD3

It certainly seems like a typical kneejerk reaction. Now let's call a spade a spade here - the "unspeakable tragedy" in Cashel recently where the driver managed to crash into a wall roof first on a narrow road just outside a town killing himself and 3 others was probably caused by utter recklessness, not by the speed limit being too high. And for the Clonmel crash where three back seat passengers were killed with both in the front seats surviving, one would have to question if there were seatbelts being worn.

Out of interest I had a look at about the top 20 road death stories on RTE's website in 2023. There are some patterns here - single vehicle crashes, often in the early hours of the morning. Possible lack of seatbelt wearing. Underage children driving vehicles. Would lowering speed limits in a blanket manner reduce deaths from these type of incidents?

List of reports:

Report on inquest of the incident where a 12 year old boy was killed (in 2022) while driving his parents car. Described as a "tragic accident". 

Man,50s, dies following two-car collision in Co Kerry

Boy, 13, dies in Kilkenny road crash. Back seat passenger. Seatbelt?

Man dies in Co Kilkenny road crash. Single vehicle crash at 1:30 am.

Boy, 8, dies following road collision in Cork. Struck by a car while cycling at a pedestrian crossing. Would lower speed limits have helped? Why was the boy cycling at a pedestrian crossing? Was the driver paying attention?

Teenage best friends killed in Monaghan crash on way to Debs. Driver survived. Seatbelts?

Man dies after getting out of his car on M6 in Galway. Struck by a HGV. Was the HGV driver paying attention? It is very dangerous to get out of your car on a motorway.

Boy and girl, 14, killed in Galway car crash. Other occupants of car were also aged 13/14 so we have an underage driver.

Woman, 21, dies after being struck by garda car in Donegal. happened at 3:15 am

Two men in 20s killed in Co Mayo road crash. happened "shortly before midnight"

Two motorcyclists die in separate road crashes in Cork and Westmeath. One collided with a tractor.

Teenager dies in Cork crash, matter referred to GSOC. Car travelling in wrong direction on a motorway.

Man, 40s, killed in Roscommon road crash. Single vehicle. 

Woman in her 20s dies in Co Meath road crash. Single vehicle. Happened at 1:25 am.

Teenage girl, elderly man killed in northeast road crashes. Girl was travelling in a tractor driven by another teenager. How many seats and seatbelts are there in a tractor?

Man in his 30s dies following road crash in Co Offaly. Single vehicle. Happened between 5 and 5:30 am.

Woman dies, two injured, in Mayo road crash. Single vehicle. 9:15 pm

Man in his 20s dies in single-vehicle road crash in Co Galway

Man dies following road collision in Co Kerry. Single vehicle

Three teenagers die after car enters water in Galway. happened at 2:40 am.

School pays tribute to boy, 13, who died in Mayo tractor crash. 13 year old was driving the tractor.

MegamanBoo

Won't be enforced so not much of a difference.

I do think limits are too high in rural areas and town centers/estates.

A lot of people here calling for roads to be individually assessed and tbh can't see it working or being worthwhile.

There's a stretch near where I used to live that used to be 80 for about 10k or so. Not it's broken up to 6 or 7 different zones, some 80, some 60. To be honest it's near impossible to keep track. Especially when hedges grow over signs.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121079945#Comment_121079945

Not a hope anyone would engage some critical thinking skills and question if a blanket reduction in speed limits will achieve the square root of sweet **** all except make for a nice press release and the warm and fuzzy afterglow of being seen to be doing something.

It's all a depressing game with useful idiots being moved around the board by simultaneous arse licking and arse covering gombeenoids.

Here are some very simple ideas that could be implemented to increase road safety:

1) red light traffic cameras at every junction

2) automated number plate recognition to fine drivers who break rules of the road

3) uber/lyft/bolt etc - give people a cost effective taxi alternative, particularly in rural areas to eradicate drink driving

4) driving licence refresher course every 10 years on renewal. No more giving someone a licence from age 18 til death with no cpd/test in between.

5) proper driving bans for motorists who break rules of the road. Get offenders off the roads.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081292#Comment_121081292

1. Every red light ? Major junctions absolutely

2. ANPR everywhere for tax and insurance non compliance with automatic fines (NI do it on roundabouts outside Tesco). Those that don't care and don't pay, bailiffs to remove items from home.

3. Good idea. Not sure how insurance works for someone doing that. Is it an open chasm for claims ?

4. Won't happen. To be honest, experience is gained in miles covered rather than years. We can barely implement current new drivers. It would be a bureaucratic nightmare.

5. How many times do you read driving ban and the person has no licence due to ban or never had one. Taking cash, large fines and when you can't/won't pay then bailiffs is the only deterrent.

If the current laws were actually enforced instead of sure it will be grand, then we might not need half of the above.

It's still an overreaction. Deaths are consistently falling.

The inquest for the causes of the current crashes will be at least 12 months away. My son tells me the location of the first crash with the four kids is a well known slab often used by boy racers because it's actually very slippy. Easy to get the back end out. Fixing the road rather than applying a low limit will do more to prevent further deaths.

_Kaiser_

Seems it'll be discussed at upcoming party think-in's with many rural TDs already reporting a lot of vocal opposition.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/it-will-turn-every-vehicle-into-a-tractor-rural-tds-voice-concerns-at-proposed-speed-reductions/a1472342007.html

Carlow-Kilkenny Fianna Fáil TD John McGuinness spoke for several of his colleagues when he said: “I think they are going to have to look at this again and the whole roads issue.

“Are people who are speeding going to take their foot off the pedal because they see a new sign? I doubt it very much.”

He said he had received numerous complaints, with some TDs saying the public perceived the move as a “knee-jerk response” to carnage on the roads.

Can only hope that common sense breaks out...

• Reduction of limits on actual boreens where even 50 km/h is pushing it, never mind 80 km/h, and other roads where it makes sense (not wide carriageways or R/N-routes that are almost motorway grade as is)
• Enforcement in these areas rather than just racking up the stats on motorways (statistically the safest roads anyway)
• Greater focus on detecting things that lead to these events - dangerous overtaking, drink/drug driving, mobile phone use, lack of seatbelt use etc
• Investment in mental health supports and urgent supports to address those "single driver, one car involved, late at night" incidents
• Greater investment in driver training to include multi-lane high speed usage (if not motorways then certainly the next N-route equivalent)
• Harsher penalties for driving without insurance and/or a license

.. and other measures like these that would ACTUALLY make an impact.

Guess it'll depend on how much "noise" is made about it though. That's the only way the public are represented in this country.

Blarney_man

Driving skills in Ireland are shocking, especially in 60+ people, I would reduce it even further until they all pass an exam they never did.

Montage of Feck

The usual Irish solution to bring in new laws despite the current laws not being enforced.

Glencarraig

Absolute waste of time, never mind the cost of replacing all the speed limit signs, I bet Chambers hasn't even costed it yet.......never mind sure it will be done on overtime. I remember a number of years some "hot air" minister stating that "uninsured drivers will go to jail", I doubt that even one driver has seen the inside of a cell for that........A certain Kilkenny woman named Carey comes to mind. total bolloc*s.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081968#Comment_121081968

Pretty sure you have to get to people in their late 70's to find those that never did a test. My father in law is one and he's scary on the road. Has driven everything except artics because he ticked all the boxes on application.

It's far from just older people. They tend to drive slower but I often find they are a hazard entering a motorway. Seen many stop at end of ramp and look over the shoulder before continuing.

Phone use is endemic in younger people all the way into their 50's. Texting/mailing is a curse. Truck drivers are also very poor for this. Easily spotted in the big mirrors, not so much in the new camera type mirror ! Watch for the lane drift in cars and trucks to know what's happening. A quick glance as you pass and it's obvious.

Seat belt or lack thereof is common in those in their 20's. Know two with seat belt clips with no belt to defeat the warning sound. Have seen many take off the belt and put it behind them as they drive so they can lay the seat into a dentist chair position. Looks cool until you are in a crash I suppose.

Driving in the right lane down the length of a motorway is the preserve of N drivers and Mammy wagons. Especially on M8 and M9.

We have a new wave of emigrants in the last few years with very questionable driving skills. I don't know if we just accept your foreign license. Does anyone check validity of a licence from a non EU country or even a EU one ?

Mad excess speed is not as common as you think on motorways but it's terrible in low speed 50kmph zones. For whatever reason we concentrate on motorways for speed detection despite their known safety.

Driving skills are better than Spain or Portugal but woeful compared to Germany. It's all relative. Not sure what driver education exists after you get your license in any of those countries but it might be the same as ourselves and it's non existent. Enforcement of existing laws would do more to help than knee jerk reaction. But that requires more gardai and more money.

magicbastarder

Pretty sure you have to get to people in their late 70's to find those that never did a test.

the amnesty was in 1979. so anyone born before the early 60s would have been in a position to avail of it - so they'd only have to be early 60s and older.

NIMAN

The bottom line in all thus are the drivers. The human input into the tragedies.

We hear after crashes that "it was a dangerous road" or "the conditions were poor". So how come loads more crashes didn't happen? Its because it was human error. Drivers were simply going too fast for the road, the conditions etc. Driving safely relies on people being responsible. And slowing down when conditions are bad.

I often think when I'm on the 80km and 100km roads, that in reality you shouldn't actually need speed limit signs if drivers were responsible. You'd drive at a speed which you know, and which feels, safe. Sometimes I drive these roads and settle at a certain speed, without looking at my speedo, and most times it at the limit or slightly below.