Gov Plans to reduce speed limits

cjpm

Today’s top story on the Indo

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/revealed-the-big-reductions-in-speed-limits-for-many-irish-roads-in-bid-to-prevent-death-and-injury/a156705731.html

”Speed limits are set to be cut on a ­significant number of roads as authorities seek to reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries.

Limits will be lowered to 80kmh on national secondary roads, 60kmh on local and rural roads, and 30kmh in town centres and housing estates as part of a major Government overhaul.”

My own opinion is that they are trying to cover up for years of doing SFA.

There should be a dedicated dept in every RDO looking at improving every road in the country. Easy wins setting back ditches on corners etc, improving visibility around bends etc

If there was a tax break for house owners and landowners where they could surrender a strip of land adjacent to the road and the councils could then set back the boundaries in order to improve alignments, allow some bit of a verge.

A voluntary scheme with a carrot would be worth a lot as we obviously don’t have the resources to use the stick ie a widespread CPO.

Some of the national primaries are a disgrace and the national secondary’s are absolutely woeful in parts.

cjpm

I’m not absolving the nut behind the wheel either.

Penalties for 30 kph + over limit speeding, drink and drug driving should be doubled and checkpoints should be quadrupled. I can’t remember the last time I was stopped.

Dash cams should be mandatory and it would put an end to “he said - she said “ in court.

And there should be a Garda dept where you can submit footage of dangerous driving so the Gardai can investigate if they feel required.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312485/gov-plans-to-reduce-speed-limits

It’s a typical over reaction by incompetent politicians to get a few headlines.

If they were really serious about road deaths then they would have dedicated Gardai in a road policing unit that would implement the full rules of the road that already exist and crack down on dangerous driving.

We are a great country for creating rules and then everyone ignore them because there is no one there to police them.

zetecescort

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074872#Comment_121074872

Spot on. Same story for our streets, no enforcement of current laws nevermind introducing more.

riddles

I contacted the RSA last year to check what the plans were to tackle the number of uninsured drivers on the roads. I got back mumbo jumbo from them.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0425/1378940-over-10-000-claims-made-for-uninsured-driver-accidents/

its seems a no brainer someone with no insurance is possibly going to also be less diligent in other aspects of road safety also like speed limits, seat belts etc.

corcaigh07

Another token gesture from a spineless government

marno21

Enforce the existing legislation and you’ll see a noticeable reduction in road deaths.

This smacks of coming from the dunces in the minority party that’ll end up seeing many FF + FG TDs getting backlash at the doors and at the ballot box come the next election. They’re already continuously hammering the drum of reducing motorway speed limits as “climate action”. Such an endeavour will make the motorways less attractive and move traffic back to the roads which were bypassed to improve safety in the first place.

Another own goal from a remarkably incompetent Government. And we thought Shane Ross was bad

cjpm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074900#Comment_121074900

They’ll be remembered as one of the most incompetent governments in our history.

And the backbench FG and FF TD’s are going to be absolutely hammered in the next election

Proper order for the idiots that back the current administration.

KildareP

From my own experiences - for what it's worth - commuting daily on mainly rural roads, the speed limit is far from the primary issue and changing it will do SFA. What I have noticed in recent years is:

1. Distractions. Most modern cars have the equivalent of an iPad Pro sat in the centre console with many now having an interactive, customisable LCD dash as well. The amount of people I can see not paying attention because they're tapping away on a touchscreen or interacting with some flashy menu in the dash is frightening.
2. Hedge cutting. There was a significant reduction in the amount of hedge cutting this year compared to years previous. OK, yes, climate diversity is important but there were some otherwise safe roads and junctions that became lethal this year because you had no choice but to pull into a junction totally blind because all you could see all around was significantly overgrown hedging.
3. Red light jumping. Crept in during Covid when you'd often be the only car at a junction and so people started taking chances rather than sit through a red sequence at an empty junction. Now you could get a green and still have 5 or 6 cars continue sailing through from the other road.
4. You have the serial speeders who overtake you at 110-120KM/h in an 80KM/h zone, reducing that stretch to 60KM/h will change absolutely nothing about these drivers behaviours but will - rightly or wrongly - frustrate those drivers who do abide by the speed limit.

All of the above is down to simple enforcement and monitoring (or lack thereof) and changing the speed limit is a pure cop-out that will do absolutely nothing to change the behaviour of those who openly flaunt the existing rules anyway.

roadmaster

Somebody please think of Michael Mcgrath when he gets the bill for changing signs

Eoinbmw

They want us back on horse back fecking Republic my hole!

sameoldname

All that will happen is the number of dangerous overtakes will increase.

Alun

What a pile of nonsense. By all means review both R and N roads to see if some might benefit from a reduction in speed limit, especially some of the 80 km/h boreens, but a blanket reduction with the option to increase on certain roads, which we know will never happen, is just ridiculous. It is just a proposal at this stage, so hopefully sense will prevail.

AAAAAAAAA

I agree with KildareP's points fully.

I also add that modern car design trending towards larger and heavier cars with higher centres of gravity is leading to much more forceful crashes with longer braking times. That's not even to speak of the higher fronts causing more deadly pedestrian impacts. I also feel, but have no proof, that these larger cars manage to get over the road barriers more frequently when impacting them.

The red light jumping I believe is primarily caused by incredibly slow lighting sequences, if you miss a green you can be caught for an eternity. It would be difficult to train Irish drivers to respect pedestrian crossings in the manner that happens in Germany with shorter light sequences though, and probably would cause more deaths.

In general, the only two things that can truly help with road deaths on an Irish level are actual, boring law enforcement and improvement of infrastructure (particularly junction improvement and pedestrian infrastructure).

Otherwise, for both emissions and safety, cars need to become smaller and lighter, and this has to be lobbied at an EU level.

Mantis Toboggan

Typical knee jerk reaction from a fraud government.

BagofWeed

So we all get punished instead of the speeders, Fuckíng scumbags.

magicbastarder

they have announced a €1.2m expansion of the gosafe program, which is an even worse example of announcing something that will do SFA for road safety. a program designed to not catch people committing offences.

Newtown90

Commuting 2 hours + a day for the past few years... Speed limits won't change the amount of nuts attempting crazy overtakes in a rush to work to save 30 seconds... The dangerous handful already break the speed limits that are in place and will continue to do so - and the few I know and shake my head at are proud out of their penalty points - offloading them to the wife/partner to avoid being put off the road.

A mindset reset or change is needed of some sort to get people to respect the powerful machines we all generally drive and stop start thinking of the possible knock on affects.

Speed Limit is not the issue

Its braking the speed limit is the issue

If the government believe they need to reduce the speed limits then they are openly admitting that they assigned incorrect speed limits in the first place.

This could lead to potential court cases where accidents happened within the current speed limit. The people at fault could simply state that its the Governments fault for assigning the incorrect limits which caused the accidents.

Its the easiest possible way for the government to look like they are tackling the rise in road deaths/accidents. It will have minimal effect as routinely people break the current speed limits where they know there is no enforcement. The speed vans have become too predictable for those that travel the same route every day. We need significant investment in roads policing anything else is just lip service.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075161#Comment_121075161

The craziest thing about the Go Safe vans is that they will never be on the most dangerous (sections of) roads because it wouldn't be safe for them to pull in anywhere. The extra vans will most likely be on motorways and urban roads rather than rural roads where most of the fatal accidents are happening.

Reductions in speed limits are pointless when everyone knows they will never be enforced on the actual dangerous stretches of road.

magicbastarder

you can't waive away your responsibility like that. you are expected to drive to the conditions; you can't say 'the speed limit on that road was 80km/h so i took the 90 degree bend at 80 as clearly it was safe to do so according to the limit'.

well, you could say that but you'd be laughed out of court.

mydiscworld

A crazy decision. Commuting times will increase. Cars on roads longer. More pollution.

What do the Green party in Govt think of this?

timmyntc

The lower limits in urban areas is welcome, but ultimately worthless as it wont be enforced!

Fixed in place speed cameras/average speed cameras would do far far more for road safety than this empty gesture.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075299#Comment_121075299

not necessarily more pollution.

driving at 80km/h instead of 100 will generally result in better fuel efficiency, so less pollution, not more.

raspberrypi67

The usual absolute rubbish response due to the last few terrible road deaths.

I've always felt that dash cams need to be compulsory for starters. I also think that driver under 30 should have

limiters on their cars if they go in excess of 6 or so penalty points. In a way that might then bring down insurance.

But the bright heads in government dont seem to have half a brain cell when this has been going on for years.....

c.p.w.g.w

I am reminded for my driving test, after the test, the tester was deriding me for not going the speed limit on a section of dual carriageway, it had just started to rain and hadn't rain for the previous for days, I was going 90km/HR...if those are the testers, no wonder we have people driving like morons

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075262#Comment_121075262

Speed limit, not speed target. It's everyone's responsibility to drive at a speed suitable for the road (conditions) at the time. There are parts of the roads I drive on where I have to drop it by 10 kph. Most of the road however is suitable for the limit posted and there I drive it at the absolute limit, using GPS instead of the 1kph slower speedo.

Macy0161

1. We need fixed, static, and mobile (not necessarily go safe vans) camera's using ANPR. Not just for speed, but multipurpose for tax and insurance too.
2. We need an online portal for dashcam/ camera footage upload, actioned (and if not actioned, explanation to complainant why not, with a right for the complainant to appeal/ seek a review).
3. I do think it's better that the default limits are reduced, with the option to increase where justified. Make the process about why an increase is justified.

None will happen - "shooting fish in a barrel joe"; Newspaper headlines about attacks on the poor hard done by motorist etc etc.

laws with no one bothering to enforce them are about as useful as shoes without laces as we all know this is therefore just “look lads were doing something, no for realsies”

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075337#Comment_121075337

If we all drove at 90kmph instead of 100kmph when it rains then dropping the speed limit wouldn’t be to big an issue as it’s always raining.

unfortunately it rains so much in this country the fact that it hadn’t rained for the previous four days is hardly going to result in Greasy roads unless there is some oil spill. It’s not like countries that have no rain for a couple of months and once it rains all the oil rises to surface and it’s like driving on an ice rink. Ireland doesn’t get first rains of the season

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074872#Comment_121074872

A complete over reaction and one that may cause them much difficulty electorally in rural Ireland if they implement it.

Several times recently I've heard the recent tragedy at Hillview in Clonmel as a reason that 'something must be done' on rural roads. I know that bit of road and the speed limit well before where that sad accident happened is 50kph. A car travelling at 50kph or less along there would be very unlikely to have resulted in that disaster.

Enforcement of existing limits and driver campaigns for defensive driving would be far more effective.

highdef

Average speed cameras all over the place, where suitable, would be a good start. All the N and M roads and plenty of the R roads.Fixed cameras on roads identifiable as being dangerous where speed detection vans themselves would be a danger to drivers.

Regarding fixed cameras, surely at this stage you can have semi fixed cameras? What I mean a camera that be installed somewhere (on a road where a speed detection van would be a danger due to narrowness of a road), be left there for a few weeks and can be then be moved to another location but still be secure from vandals.

Also, end the silly requirement to only be permitted to have speed detection vans in certain places and on certain stretches of road. It should be that if you are driving above the speed limit on an public road, then you are liable to be caught and fined for it no matter where that road may be.

Finally, no signs on poles to inform you that speed cameras may be up ahead and speed detection vans should be far more discreet, ideally you should not even know you have passed one or at worst, you can only notice when it's too late.

Do all or most of the above and you will find that there will be a MASSIVE change in driving habits for the vast majority of drivers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075539#Comment_121075539

Hiding the vans and taking down sight posts would completely defeat the purpose and honestly it’s a very dangerous thing to look for in its own way.

Do you seriously advocate for the Gardai and in this case a separate company working on behalf thereof, to have powers that allow them to camouflage themselves and catch you out secretly?

Would you appreciate going about your day and having a garda leap from a shrub to arrest you or question you about what you’re doing? Like think about what you’re saying for a second.

You basically want secret police on the road. High visibility policing is and always has been a far more effective deterrent.

People break road traffic laws in ireland because the garda are no where to be seen.

magicbastarder

High visibility policing is more effective? Not with speed cameras, it's not. It's pure tokenism.

If you have a policy that speed cameras should be highly visible, what you are saying is that if you can't see one, you can speed without getting caught.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075076#Comment_121075076

Just a few things here:

1: Yes distractions are an issue but it's mostly to do with illegal mobile phone use. This has to be looked at and legislated for.

2: I don't really buy the whole hedge-trimming argument. Again, one has to drive give consideration to their environment. I feel this is a knee jerk argument just to have a go at the Greens.

3: 100%. The faster we get cameras on traffic lights the better.

4: Perhaps, but if one is driving at 110-120KM/h in a 60KM/h zone, that would be a much more serious offence with the possible seizing of the car and a court date. I personally would like to see people who speed like that receive 4 figure speeding fines, and their license taken off them, no questions asked.

So, yes, reducing the speed limit is just one thing, but there has to be more done.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075387#Comment_121075387

Agree on all points.

Apparently, the online portal is being worked on and should be up and running soon.

Also, expect to see more 'Average speed' cameras deployed around the place. They seem to be very effective.

Macy0161

Regarding fixed cameras, surely at this stage you can have semi fixed cameras? What I mean a camera that be installed somewhere (on a road where a speed detection van would be a danger due to narrowness of a road), be left there for a few weeks and can be then be moved to another location but still be secure from vandals.

I'm home from the UK nearly 25 years - at that stage they had multiple fixed camera locations, and rotated cameras between them.

Apparently, the online portal is being worked on and should be up and running soon.

The portal is only half the job though - they have to action from the footage too.

ELM327

Great. Making ridiculous low speed limits means they will just be ignored anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075337#Comment_121075337

Yup, not keeping up with traffic or making adequate progress. Driving 90 on a 100 road is a silly thing to do. If you do it in your driving test you will likely get a negative score for that action.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075840#Comment_121075840

Road was empty and the road would have been greasy as it hadn't rained in a number of day...it's a speed limit not target...oh and I did get a mark against me, a family member who is l/was a member of AGS traffic core suggested I should have made an official complaint against him

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075840#Comment_121075840

I presume you're being facetious.. Driving 90 on a 100 road is perfectly reasonable in many circumstances. Any tester/ instructor querying that should be fired on the spot and/or removed from register of instructors.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075855#Comment_121075855

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075858#Comment_121075858

See this "speed limit not target" argument gets shot down when you are actually tested and you need to drive to the speed limit. It's not "any tester" it's all testers, pretty standard for the last 20 plus years.

magicbastarder

if i'm on a quiet 100km/h road and not in a hurry - no way would i bother doing 100km/h. 80 or 90 is fine.

medoc

Blanket speed limits because of the colour of the sign or if the route number is above or below 50 is stupid. Roads should be limited based on their physical conditions. The N52 for example has some of the best and worst sections of any secondary road. Limiting it by default along its entire length is stupid. It already has 80km/h limits on poor parts in Meath. There has been plenty of opportunities for the TII or county councils to audit every km of road in the country. Placing appropriate limits on them and designing solutions to sections that need improvement. I’ve no argument against local roads at 60km/h.

A network of average speed cameras on all primary and secondary national roads at regular intervals and on the busier regional roads makes sense. The vast majority of people will comply with reasonable limits.

AyeGer

Impatient and dangerous drivers are causing a lot of problems on the roads. Also people looking at their phones.

Im on the road a lot and see some crazy driving.

fits

Well I hope other road users than car drivers can get out more safely. I don’t know if this will work but I hope it does.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075482#Comment_121075482

Enforcement of existing limits and driver campaigns for defensive driving would be far more effective.

I agree with the defensive driving but a genuine question.

How do we enforce the rules of the road on rural roads? We have the most roads per capita in Europe, because of your unique population and settlement patterns. Having a Garda sitting on a rural road to catch 1 driver a day won't do much. So how do we do this?

Any suggestion is usually met with knee-jerk rubbish from the likes of the Healy Raes who try and turn the issue of road safety into a Rural/Urban divide and a culture war issue.

satguy

Big fines for speeding,, the more over the limit, the higher the fine..

Even bigger fines for slow driving,, if your tipping along at 65 on a road that is marked 100,, then that's a fine, and if your doing 60 on a road marked 100, then that's an even bigger fine.

Having to overtake slow drivers,, puts us all in danger..

fits

how Do we do it? With technology. Speed cameras all over the place in France.

ThreeGreens

We've been told over the past few weeks that the increase in road deaths is due to speeding (that is people not obeying the speed limit).

So how is the solution to reduce the speed limit, if drivers aren't obeying it?

Enforcement of the speed limit is the answer to people breaking the speed limit, not reducing the limit.

Also, I've seen no analysis done of the recent road deaths. Are we collecting details of the crashes and analysing the real cause? If that was done we could better understand what was really causing the accidents and introduce measures to really tackle the cause rather than just doing road safety by press release.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075818#Comment_121075818

The portal is only half the job though - they have to action from the footage too.

Yes, I agree.

No point uploading a video of dangerous driving when it gets lost and there is no follow-up. Actionable enforcement has to come out of those situations.