Is there a Labour Party?

Ramasun

There should be, it's needed.

You wouldn't know it existed in Ireland these days.

ancapailldorcha

Yes.

https://labour.ie/

Feisar

Hopefully. There's no one else I can vote for.

Sleepy

The closest thing we have is the Social Democrats.

Our traditional Labour party has lost it's way, is lead by a misandrist and as such probably needs a rebrand since they no longer respect, never mind represent, the working man.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058311133/is-there-a-labour-party

I think that's largely embedded in Irish history, at least what the geography of the Republic of Ireland is concerned.

The two parties FF and FG are basically out of a historic context pro-treaty and anti-treaty.

SF is sort of on the left, small Irish on their knees and rising against the English, - also a bit historic.

A real labour movement never existed in what is now the Republic of Ireland, as there never really was an industrial revolution, no classical workers or labourers or big scale factories like in other countries, France, Germany or the UK. Historically the Republic was too agricultural dominated for a labour party to develop.

A lot of current jobs and industries in the Republic of Ireland are by foreign investors, like pharmaceutical or the whole IT sector, foreign dominated, often US Americans, not liking labour movements and trade unions....

The Labour Party died with Connolly.

gormdubhgorm

Nope - it has been long dying the slow decline started when they stopped wearing ties and moving away from the beards which the Trade Union leaders were once so fond of, before the word hipster was ever heard.

Ivana Bacik the airy fairy academic with all the charisma of a of a concrete slab was the death knell of the Labour Party all together. Then the yahoo 'student Union type politics' PBP jumped in to fill some of the void. But few take them seriously.

The social democrats has tried to be a Labour Party for the middle classes, but the electorate do not like the 'brand'. Sinn Fein are now trying to do what Labour did in the 90's go populist. Lose the ties but leave the top button open, and aim for the women's vote, as well as the working class

But the advantage SF has over Labour is that SF is on a 'crusade' so they can get away with a lot of stuff that a normal party would not. The Labour Party has long being a directionless dead party with poor leadership. The last decent leader Labour had was Joan Burton. But SF and PBP did a political hatchet job on her from which she never recovered.

Strumms

They’ve had a series of uninspiring, unsuccessful, ineffectual leaders and now here is another, Bacik.. 😵

country is crying out for a decent, well led, spirited, relatable, intelligent and effectual centre left party.

just had a gander at Ivanas Twitter and man, it’s depressing, mostly PR lip service… little of any substance just PR opportunities.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038085#Comment_121038085

There is this lot who have decided to run candidates:

https://www.farmersalliance.ie/

I'd be interested to read their manifesto when it is available.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057935#Comment_121057935

Their website has links to Gript. Their twitter account following a lot of far right nutjobs like Aisling O'Loughin, Sharon Keoghan, Irish Enquiry, Gript, Lawyers for justice. Just another group of far right scum so.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038122#Comment_121038122

There's very little difference between the SDs and Labour they're just not as tainted by sell out as the LP but give them time!

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121057960#Comment_121057960

Probably not and the sooner they merge the better, the Left needs more cohesion. I'll vote for Labour again I'm sure but not while Bacik is at the helm.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066402#Comment_121066402

Labour is on the way to being eradicated in the next GE and needs the SocDem votes to survive. The SocDems are their own party and don't seem interested into bailing out Bacik and her gang. The merger idea keeps getting pushed by Labour supporters in the media. The only thing that Labour has going for it is that it has some Local Government seats but if those numbers collapse in the next Local Elections then Labour might as well disband as a party.

Regards...jmcc

Sleepy

I don't particularly care whether the SD's merge back into Labour or former Labour members join the SD's (or a fully rebranded party). I'd like to see a cohesive and sane party on the left of Irish politics (I don't consider Sinn Fein to be genuinely of the left, more populists wearing that particular coat to further their goal of destroying our country through unification with Northern Ireland).

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038996#Comment_121038996

Wow, this is a crazy read of Irish history. Ireland did have an industrial revolution, it also had a labour movement. Have you not heard of Jim Larkin and the Dublin lock-outs or James Connoly?

I can only assume you're from a very rural area and have no idea that there are, and always have been, many industrial parts of the country.

Kermit.de.frog

I'd have thought Fianna Fàil traditionally would be the defacto Labour Party in Ireland given it's policy legacies which is why the Labour Party (aside from briefly) has always struggled to gain much traction.

I don't think the Irish Labour Party has a viable long term future. It's too squeezed and it's too crowded in the left of center/center political spectrum in Ireland. Also Ireland doesn't really do left-wing politics anyway. Rather all parties on the so-called "left" in Ireland are actually just populist.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066517#Comment_121066517

Rural Ireland was also very well organised in agricultural trade unions and the Labour Party actually had a lot of support in rural Ireland

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066517#Comment_121066517

I am aware of Larkin and Connoly, however, there was never an industrial revolution in the Republic of Ireland the likes of the UK, or Belfast for that matter. Back then, the left, was mainly against the English, but not against industrialists exploiting poor workers.

The Republic of Ireland in the early years was still rather agricultural, thus a real labour movement never developed. Politics back then, was too much pro treaty and anti treaty focused, whilst emmigration still continued, if not the the US, then to the UK.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066581#Comment_121066581

Ye wha? Connolly and Larkin and the Irish trade union movement never stood industrialists exploiting poor workers?

Seriously?

The Labour party lost their way, they neglected the working class completely and they went in heavy behind the welfare class. I think few people forget that Pat Rabbitte was in favour of the introduction of property taxes and USC.

They should be campaigning for pay increases, workers rights and the supporting unions instead they are focused on social welfare increases paid for by increased taxation on the working class. Their current policies make them an irrelevant party not worth a vote.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066581#Comment_121066581

Firstly you were talking about "What would become the Republic" Now you're talking about the republic and pro/anti-treaty sides? So the civil war and its aftermath? which was long before the Republic came into being. It'd be easier if you would actually just say the time period you refer to when you say there was no industrial revolution or labour movement.

I think your grasp of Irish history is hazy at best, but I'll give you some hints. The republic came into being in 1949. The civil war was 1922-23. The Industrial Revolution happened in the East and Northeast in the 19th century, long before partition.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066574#Comment_121066574

This is true and the Agri-Cooperatives have a large place in the Irish labour context.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066464#Comment_121066464

Oh I don't know if there's much difference really between Labour and the SDs, sure the latter are just largely a split from Labour. Labour Party has tradition behind it, whilst the SDs are shinier and newer. I'm not sure either really have a future at the moment, even though that's where my vote would normally trend towards.

Sinn Féin have set about ruthlessly hoovering up the 'left' vote in the Republic, by all means fair & foul. Labour, SDs, PBP and any others are all targets to SF and they know it. Which is why some grand coalition of the 'left' is laughable. No love lost at all between them.

Danzy

Labour mostly exist on paper, the stronger branches are built around family loyalty and personal cliques.

You see more members who have 60 years of membership than under 60 years of age.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066664#Comment_121066664

WARNING: Strong message follows. Labourites should put down their lattes now. :)

There is a difference. Labour appeals to the Irish Times reading old student union/teacher radicals and most of Labour's current TDs are teachers. The SocDems are far more complex and they have younger supporter demographics. That's why they always do well in the Sindo/Ireland Thinks and RedC opinion polls because those demographics have no problems with online polling. Parties with older supporter demographics do have problems and the FF percentages in the Sunday Times/B&A polls are very different because it uses face to face polling.

What's left of the Labour party abandoned the Left in Ireland and it is now a more Right wing party with the veneer of politically correct policies. Labour, along with FG, gleefully imposed Austerity and tried to bring in the Water Tax scam.

In its attempted move up-market by the ex-student union radicals, Labour abandoned its strong Trade Union representation and roots. The takeover of the party by the Stickies (Sinn Fein/Workers Party/Democratic Left/etc) really destroyed it.

When Labour abandoned the Left and the Trade Unions, SF moved in. When FF, under the wannabe FGer Martin, abandoned the centre of the political spectrum, SF moved in there too and SF is a centrist party. Labour has more in common with FG than with the few remaining parties on the Left of the spectrum.

Labour has suffered from a string of leaders who all made the wrong decision when it came to the crunch. Had Labour been led by a genuine leader rather than the Stickie Frankfurt Gilmore and it stayed out of government in 2011, Labour would probably have the same level of support as SF has now and the rise of SF would not have happened.

Gilmore was replaced by the equally useless iPhone Joan Burton who thought that the opening of a food bank was a photo opportunity. (That was horrifyingly disconnected from reality in a Marie Antoinette manner.) She was replaced by Brendan Howlin who had to be crowned leader without an election. He was replaced by Alan Kelly. He had worked hard to introduce the Water Tax scam but was probably the best of a bad bunch. As soon as Bacik was elected, it was certain that he'd be replaced. Now, Labour has got the right kind of "leader" for the pseudo-intellectual Irish Times reading types who still vote for Labour.

The problem is that the Irish Times daily sales figures were heading for 50K before Covid and Labour's support has been flatlined since the last GE. (Labour only got 95,588 votes in 2020.) At some stage, they are going to synchronise. The Labour resurrection expected by the Labour supporters in the media after Higgins was installed for a second term (he was the FF/FG/Lab candidate who claimed, in 2011, that he'd be a one term president) didn't happen and SF carried out a very important move to the centre when Mary Lou McDonald became leader.

Unfortunately for the Labour supporters in the media and the Labour management, the threat from a centrist SF didn't even show up on their radar. There was a demand for a broadly centrist party with some Left wing overtones (think old FF) and SF met it. It could have been Labour if it was run by people with a clue. Instead, Labour is run by a bunch of people who think that they should be the ones to tell voters what to think. That went down so well with the electorate that Labour lost its speaking rights in the Dail in 2020 because it only won 6 seats when speaking rights require a minimum of seven seats.

The virtue signalling crap from Labour doesn't matter when people are wondering how they will pay the back to school bills for their kids and the energy bills. (The high energy bills were as much the product of the introduction of FF "competition" into a market where Ireland had one of the lowest energy costs in Europe rather than the effect of the war in Ukraine.)

The current bunch of Labourites are the very people about which Connolly warned.

Regards...jmcc

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066615#Comment_121066615

Labour are the party of public sector unions, media , academia and NGO czars , they are a thoroughly middle class party , the party of official Ireland ( chattering classes )

Sinn Fein and to a lesser degree PBP are the go to party for welfare lifers

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066962#Comment_121066962

"The virtue signalling crap from Labour doesn't matter when people are wondering how they will pay the back to school bills for their kids and the energy bills."

"What's left of the Labour party abandoned the Left in Ireland and it is now a more Right wing party with the veneer of politically correct policies. Labour, along with FG, gleefully imposed Austerity and tried to bring in the Water Tax scam."

That's all fine & dandy but please explain why the Labour Party with it's modest membership and representation should be the saviour of Ireland and responsible for curing the profligacy of FF/FG governments? What makes them special for singling out as responsible?

As for water charges, a user based consumption tax for water/ sewage is one of the few taxes proposed in recent decades that made logical sense. Lots of people understood this in principle, that it was badly introduced by that ignorant buffoon in FG, hardly lessens the argument then & now. It's plainly ridiculous that those on public water & sewage should use/ dispose of as much as they want, without a care in the world for the costs of providing this. This progressive charge is not gone and will come back, out of necessity if nothing else.

And I see not a whit of difference between Labour and the SDs in their current forms & personnel.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039049#Comment_121039049

There's two big things that SF have over labour and the soc dems. First is name recognition (not so much with labour, but definitely with the soc dems). the second is money. Neither party could field the list of candidates that SF does. they lack either grassroot organisations or the money.

It's a pity. labour would get a preference vote from me but at the moment they don't seem to any vision or message about how they want the country to be.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066615#Comment_121066615

As goes property taxation - this is the only country in Europe where left wing parties are opposed to it, and right wing parties in favour of it. Baffling.

When you hear of "wealth taxes" being proposed by parties, remember that the bulk of most peoples wealth is any residential property they own. Don't expect it to be magically exempt - it will be a property tax just with a different name.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067441#Comment_121067441

Labour was the half-party of Irish politics that enabled FF and FG. They sold out their supporters and the most vulnerable in society for the price of a few ministerial salaries and pensions.

Labour could have stayed out of government in 2011 instead of becoming more FG than FG itself.

The dominant political model started to shift in 2013 from being a two and a half party model to being a Big Three model where no two of the Big Three would have enough seats to form a government. The 2015 Local Elections and Euros showed that Labour had become irrelevant. (One of the Labour Ireland South candidates pleaded with Gilmore to stay away from her campaign.) By 2016, the Big Three model was firmly established. The problem was that Labour management and their supporters in the media didn't understand what happened. Its supporters in the media, particularly in RTE, still treated Labour as a major party on a level with FF/FG/SF.

Irish Water would probably have been privatised if FG/Lab had gotten away with their plan.

Regards...jmcc

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067526#Comment_121067526

Yeah voting for Labour now is almost a 'wasted vote' - I would have voted for them in the past. But now I find myself looking for alternatives all the time, especially when there is no longer any viable independent in my consistency.

Good points on the brand, and the money. If you were to ask me what Labour stood for now, I would be struggling to tell you. The other main parties you would have a fair idea where they stand on issues - what their direction is etc.

BlueSkyDreams

Are laboutmr not just the same as FF or FG? Essentially centre left.

I dont seeanything to distinguish them.