Bank of Ireland Chaos

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993414#Comment_120993414

Switch to Revolut and f**k them.

RetroEncabulator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120991245#Comment_120991245

Textbook bank more like!

Remember the HBOS/Natwest/UlsterBank IT meltdown a few years ago?

Remember the banking crisis?

Blame the regulators, blame the customers, get bailed out with public money ...

Too big to fail...

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993224#Comment_120993224

I'd say a Venn diagram of SF voters and those who took money from BOI atms on Tuesday would have a huge crossover

NewbridgeIR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993498#Comment_120993498

RBS / Nat West / Ulster Bank

I can't believe people are still making the Bank of Scotland / Royal Bank of Scotland mistake.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992182#Comment_120992182

It's called a overdraft facility.

In this scenario the bank has unwittingly applied an overgenerous overdraft facility to their account holders.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992835#Comment_120992835

Bizarre that you'd be expected to prove you're a BoI customer to a gard, intending to withdraw your own money before you'd gain access to a public ATM.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993894#Comment_120993894

Yep I've no issues with the Gardai being sent out to keep public order. Blocking access to ATMs is an entirely different matter though. Plus a genuine BOI customer withdrawing their own money to pay for a taxi or whatever they needed it for wouldn't actually be able to demonstrate to the Garda that it was their money as online banking was down. Not that they should have to prove it. I think the ICCL are right and the Gardai have questions to answer over why they were blocking access to ATMs.

Northernlily

Edited.

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989371#Comment_120989371

Well I received the tickets in the post and the transaction went through this morning so TM got their cash and I got my tickets. I guess all of the held up transactions will have been trickling through over the last few days.

Quitelife

In Limerick there was a brawl outside the BOI ATM on bedford row as people in pyjamas fought to use it before the ATM ran out of money Tuesday evening.there was carloads of people in Pyjamas coiming to the city centre BOI ATM as the ones on the outskirts of the city had been emptied already by similar types.

People going to use it as part of their normally weekly business were kept away from machine by thugs with the ladies in Pyjamas .

Purple Mountain

Someone asked above and it wasn't answered..

How did someone initially realise this error?

I know it spread like wildfire on social media but who was person zero and how did they figure out the glitch?

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995225#Comment_120995225

Well here in lies the dilema.

I originally thought that this was happening for a week or two with only a few people know about it and keeping it to themselves.

But having talked to some security guys, it has all the hallmarks of a hack, which would explain why the Garda went out to the ATM's, and how it spread around so fast. Also the process of removing the cash was to complex to be discovered at random.

I thought the Garda were there to keep people safe (muggings and what not)

And the fact that no one is answering questions adds to the suspicion even more.

Northernlily

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995279#Comment_120995279

For me the fact that they struggled to shut down the ATM as soon as it became known due to an issue with internal systems certainly aligns with the thinking this may have been some sort of attack.

Who knows what they are battling at the moment. As part of good Digital Operational Resilience practice which is a huge thing lately and Incident Response Procedures there does have to be a line of communication with law enforcement alongside external legal, PR firms etc. All this is to ensure the Financial Services org is able to continue to deliver it's identified Critical and Important Business services to maintain its operations and the stability of the wider economic system.

There are evidently still issues lingering though.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995318#Comment_120995318

An attack is it now?

Requiring a valid account, card and PIN.

No has all the hallmarks of a technical screwup, where an update was installed across systems, probably out of hours as to minimize business disruption, but an update without adequate testing beforehand. Then once the fault was in, they either had all gone to bed, or it wasn't possible to revert to previous settings. Hence the panic stations and dispatching the local gestapo.

oisinog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995318#Comment_120995318

I have experience of working with ATMs in the past, as far as the network I worked on they didn't have great software. On most atms you have to press a button to take it out of service no central way to do this as far as I am aware

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995354#Comment_120995354

Banks don't really do SW releases on Monday nights. its usually weekends they do it. This issue happened on Tuesday evening.

The details were to precise: €1,000 from a BOI account into a Revolut and then withdraw from an ATM

The max limit is €500 a day on a BOI card. So how did someone know to try and transfer €1,000 on that day, even though they knew that volume of money wasn't in their Bank account. Like is someone out there trying to transfer money they know they don't have from their bank account to Revolut everyday? It's very extremely unlikely.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995513#Comment_120995513

Neither the Bank, Gards nor Government have described it as anything other than a technical glitch.

MarkR

Like has been posted earlier, there isn't a flag on someones account to say they're on social welfare. If you take money out more money than you have, you're still responsible for it. I had a look at the current T&Cs for accounts and it's pretty clear.

“Overdraft” means you have taken more money from your Account than you have in it and can also mean the amount of money which you owe us as a result of doing that.

and

12.0 Operating your Account

12.1 You must keep your Account in credit unless you already have an agreed overdraft limit. If your Account is overdrawn for any reason, you must repay the overdraft to us on our demand.

12.2 You must always ensure that you have enough in your Account to complete an account transaction, for example:

(a) cash withdrawal at an ATM;

(b) using a Debit Card, for example, using a Debit Card for purchases in euro or a foreign currency;

(c) writing a cheque;

(d) making a payment using a telephone or the internet, for example a credit transfer;

(e) if a standing order or direct debit is due to be paid;

(f) when you are due to pay interest and fees;

(g) you want to make an Account transaction online; or

(h) you want to make an Account transaction that is initiated through a PISP.

12.3 If you have an agreed overdraft, you can use it to make Account transactions. However, you cannot use the value of a paper payment (for example, a cheque) lodged to your Account until it is cleared (see Clause 14 for more detail).

12.4 We may refuse to pay money from your Account if this would cause it to become overdrawn or to go over an agreed overdraft limit (where there is one). We do not have to tell you of this refusal beforehand.

12.5 Sometimes, we may allow you to pay money from your Account even where that causes your Account to go into an unauthorised overdraft. No matter how often we allow you do this, we may refuse to allow it on any other occasion.

12.6 If your Account goes overdrawn, we will charge you the interest which we describe in the clause below about overdrafts or in the Schedule of Fees and Charges.

I'm sure most won't read the small print, but it's what would have been signed up for.

If you can get away with no interest you'll be doing alright. Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to work.

FazyLucker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995023#Comment_120995023

Considering the flack the Gardai have received recently, can you imagine the furore if there was people in pyjamas getting the crap kicked out of them and being robbed of their munny with not a Garda in sight!

Maybe its just a case of protecting stupid people from their own stupidity and preventing people from kicking the crap out of each other over an ATM spitting out 1k quid to these stupid people. It would have been anarchy and the common sense approach was to stop it at source.

But no, as usual in this country its portrayed as the Gardai protecting the big bad banks. Imagine if they hadn't?

They just cannot win. No matter what they do its wrong. Action or inaction. They can't even chase a stolen car the wrong way down a motorway. No wonder they have a recruitment and retention issue. They have no case to answer, we often call for common sense policing and this is what it was. The ICCL are a bunch of do-good nobodys looking for attention at every turn they can.

My last contribution on this discussion, over to everybody else from here!

RetroEncabulator

It's remarkable how slow BoI is for SEPA transfers. From Revolut, N26 or other banks on the continent it's usually instant or within minutes. Even with AIB which isn't brilliant, it's usually same-day. With BoI it's ALWAYS the following day no matter when you submit the payment. It's like they're running on 1960s batch processing systems, i.e. transactions are stored up all day and then run over night, which is how they did things in the days when running live transactional banking was impossible.

jj880

Ive seen it mentioned these clowns will open an account with another bank if this isnt free money so they dont have to pay it back. Surely BOI can produce a list of garnishee orders no matter what their source of income is?

TokTik

I do wonder how long it will be now before we hear the first “BoI have made Sky/internet/electricity go off. Little Rihanna and Jayden can’t watch their cartoons and I’m having to rear them meself. It’s a joke Joe, de bleedin banks think they can do what they want”.

I, for one, will be tuning in gleefully.

RetroEncabulator

They can just take it up with the gardai. It’s not a civil matter. It’s often straight theft.

kirk.

I'm just waiting to see what happens next week . Poster here saying special arrangements will be made so everyone gets welfare etc

I don't believe any of that will happen unless the bank decides their best way of clawing back money is some generic payment plan , 20 off the outstanding weekly and rest is credited or something similar

Probably another announcement to follow before the sh1t starts to hit the fan next week . Seems to be the way BOI are dealing with this

jj880

I think there'll be a carrot effort first. "We'll help you sort it with a small payment plan with no interest". Thing is who out of these is gona bother their hole paying if theres no penalty involved. Eventually the stick will appear.

What happens if you run up an overdraft and decide you're not going to pay it? Do debt collectors get involved with amounts of 1000 euro?

Varadkar was paying lip service recently about "urging" banks to increase deposit interest. Will he "urge" people to pay this 1000 euro back or will BOI be facilitated somehow in recouping this money? Will be interesting to see what happens for sure.

kirk.

The bank said accounts will be debited and no interest will be charged

That was their opening gambit but have they said anything else

Are they leaving it late if they're going to offer a payment plan for the deficit

An early announcement that they're going to recoup the monies at 15/week might have dissuaged account holders from diverting wages and dole elsewhere meaning the bank now has to go the legal route with them

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997283#Comment_120997283

BOI have zero chance of getting anything back off the Pyjamas brigade that brawled in limerick Tuesday night to get to use the BOI ATM , these cretins live in more or less free government houses and bringing them to court will only see them fined which they won’t pay and then they will go to limerick prison for 2/3 hours have a nice free diner and then be released . Easy Peasy for a grand when your doing nothing else anyways .

for these people it’s just another part of life’s free money be it social welfare , children’s allowance , personal injury claims or in this case a free 1000 from a banks ATM , nothing happens these people , the law is only for the law abiding .

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997147#Comment_120997147

They can open accounts, but if there is money owing they can’t close the BOI account, and it will still be there.

Tow

The fun will happen when their 'entitlements' arrive into account and they cannot get their money!

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998863#Comment_120998863

I agree. Those folks that took out money they dont have and are working will mostly respond to BoI request for repayment and perhaps a set weekly amount will be taken.

But the no work, nothing to give so nothing to lose brigade will almlst certainly get away with it.

You can bet that the benefit system has already drawn up plans to deal with any deficit incurred to these people.

So if the bank does take 15 euro a week off you, as long as you can prove hardship etc, you will get a counter payment to cover the loss.

Its just the way liberal Ireland works, sadly.