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What do you think the Winter of 23 to 24 will be like?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭GalwayGaillimh


    Based on the Suns current rotation speed and the Moons weakening gravitational pull and the wobble in the earths axis it will be akin to 2010 and will start getting very cold with snow from mid November into December and January with record breaking low tempertures being recorded around the country.

    Si Deus Nobiscum Qui Contra Nos



  • Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭screamer


    Knowing our luck, the northerly winds that have plagued us all summer will pack their bags and south westerly winds will just pile rainy muck our way all winter. Summer hasn’t delivered and I don’t expect winter will either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,637 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre




  • Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭GalwayGaillimh


    Here you go! Buy a warm jumper its going to get cold :-)

    The Thermosphere Climate Index is on the verge of setting a Space Age record for cold, which reflects the historic low in solar activity in the current cycle.

    So, recent data has proven that temperatures in the uppermost portion of the atmosphere vary substantially, in parallel with solar activity. Recent research proposes a mechanism by which these changes can have a significant effect on weather patterns in the lower atmosphere. While these changes in scientific consensus may not come close to the importance of the refinements of Newtonian mechanics made by Einstein early in the 20th century, they do, at the very least, add scientific credibility to the forecast methodology.


    Changes in the Earth’s orbit around the sun and changes in the tilt and wobble of the Earth’s axis can lead to cooling or warming of the Earth’s climate because they change the amount of energy our planet receives from the sun. These changes, known as Milankovitch cycles


    When the moon is high in the sky, it creates bulges in the planet’s atmosphere that creates imperceptible changes in the amount of rain that falls below.

    New University of Washington research to be published in Geophysical Research Letters shows that the lunar forces affect the amount of rain – though very slightly.

    “As far as I know, this is the first study to convincingly connect the tidal force of the moon with rainfall,” said corresponding author Tsubasa Kohyama, a UW doctoral student in atmospheric sciences.

    Kohyama was studying atmospheric waves when he noticed a slight oscillation in the air pressure. He and co-author John (Michael) Wallace, a UW professor of atmospheric sciences, spent two years tracking down the phenomenon.

    Satellite data over the tropics, between 10 degrees S and 10 degrees N, shows a slight dip in rainfall when the moon is directly overhead or underfoot. The top panel shows the air pressure, the middle shows the rate of change in air pressure, and the bottom shows the rainfall difference from the average. The change is 0.78 micrometers, or less than one ten thousandth of an inch, per hour.University of Washington

    Air pressure changes linked to the position of the moon was first detected in 1847, and temperature in 1932, in ground-based observations. An earlier paper by the UW researchers used a global grid of data to confirm that air pressure on the surface definitely varies with the position of the moon.

    “When the moon is overhead or underfoot, the air pressure is higher,” Kohyama said.

    Their new paper is the first to show that the moon’s gravitational tug also puts a slight damper on the rain.

    When the moon is overhead, its gravity causes Earth’s atmosphere to bulge toward it, so the pressure or weight of the atmosphere on that side of the planet goes up. Higher pressure increases the temperature of air parcels below. Since warmer air can hold more moisture, the same air parcels are now farther from their moisture capacity.

    Si Deus Nobiscum Qui Contra Nos



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭esposito


    Have we had any snowy winters with a strong El Nino. Was 2010 not an El Nino year?

    Anyway, fully expecting a mild winter to come El Niño or no El Nino. I’ve no faith in our winters anymore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    We’ve had a bad summer so I reckon a mild winter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    2009-10, the coldest winter since 1978-79, was a moderate El Niño modoki with the warming focused on the central Pacific. There have been plenty of examples of cold winters under El Niño but not under strong, there hasn't been a single one as far back as the 1890s. They've been largely mild, Atlantic driven affairs. These are the closest they've gotten:

    • February 1983 was a cold month and was during a super El Niño. Not that snowy in Ireland as high pressure often ridged in too close. This followed a stormy and mild January, indifferent December.
    • November/December 1965. Both cold months, especially November which whilst very wet with some severe flooding in the east was also exceptionally snowy. I'd say the mountains would have been absolutely battered that month. December was not that remarkable. The January/February following were some of the milder of the 1960s.
    • January 1958. Contained very snowy, cold weather and exceptional mild in the space of 10 days apart. The north had a snowstorm from a proper, very cold northerly blast. March 1958 was also very cold and had snow episodes. February was very changeable but did have a northeasterly towards the end bringing snow to the east. December was indifferent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 830 ✭✭✭boetstark


    What !!!

    I thought this was winter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭Shoog


    My guess is mild and wet, temps little different to the summer. I well remember the long run of very mild wet winters back in the early 2000's and I think we are heading back into a similar phase.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭esposito


    Thanks Syran!

    I wonder could the outlook change from a strong to a moderate El Niño? Then we might have a slightly higher chance of a colder winter. Or maybe it’s set in stone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    Probably just a cooler version of July. Very Mild and wet.The last strong nino was 2015. Mild and wet. Summer 2015 was a poor summer although not the washout this July was. A relatively cool summer. December 2015 being the warmest on record i suppose wasn't that much cooler then July 2015 lol. The first half of autumn 2015 was also relatively cool. Then the mild temperatures took over and that was that bar a short cold snap around mid Jan. Followed by a chilly spring. Had a cold snap in late April with very heavy hail showers about. That's about as much as I remember of that yrs cold season 15/16. My hopes for this winter aren't much better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    There was also a brief northerly/northeasterly around Valentine's Day 2016 that gave some flurries here. That was the only snow apart from 4th March that I remember all season in coastal Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭esposito


    Yep what a dreadful boring winter 2015/16 was. As you said, this winter will probably be similar due to strong el nino. At least none of us will be surprised when the inevitable happens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    Out of interest do you know what the IMT was for July and Dec 2015?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,637 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    And it looks like this winter could be a strong El Nino. Oh well at least we may get some wind storms this winter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Yes, I have an ENSO thread specifically for this matter here: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058292204/enso-2023-24#latest

    Speaking of which I should give an update as it's been 2 weeks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    July 2015

    Mean: 13.9C

    Mean max: 17.8C

    Mean min: 10.1C


    December 2015 with difference from July

    Mean: 8.2C (difference of 5.7C)

    Mean max: 11.4C (difference of 6.4C)

    Mean min: 5.1C (difference of 5.0C)

    (These values are based on the same stations MT uses for the forecast contests)


    The standard IMT difference between July and December should be 10.1C, not 5.7C 💀 I don't have the 30 year averages for the mean max and mean min so cannot speak for the difference of those.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Billcarson




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Here's the first look at December and January from the August update of the C3S seasonal models. These are just for fun, they are NOT to be taken seriously in any way. Their skill is very low which of course makes sense as it's such a long time away.

    December shows a tendency towards higher pressure in the high latitudes with low pressure across the UK & Ireland and much of Europe. This looks to me like a very unsettled month with the possibility of cold outbreaks but the main thing is wet. I'm thinking months like December 1978 and 2000 for example, much of those months were very wet especially in the south and east. However, they both ended with cold outbreaks because of blocking. I'm only using these as examples of what I interpret here, doesn't mean 2023 would be the same if it were to verify this way.

    The blocking signal to the north gets significantly stronger in January and is placed over Greenland. NAO looks very negative and pressure is low to the east of Europe, however there's a lot of white in between. This either means no signal or average pressure which for us is low and Iberia is high in January. So I suspect this would be a more westerly signal than you would think. I think of 2018-19 when I look at this anomaly which had a lot of blocking but it was never in the right place and one of those places was Spain.

    The latest CFSv2 for January 2024 could not be more different to some of what the C3S have said. It shows the Atlantic onslaught unleashed with southwesterly winds all the way from the Canaries. It looks very December 2015 I got to say. That was the last strong El Niño too..

    The CFSv2 changes daily whilst the others shown above run once a month.


    Post edited by sryanbruen on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Jpmarn


    Probably be tormented by wind storms like that of 2013/14. Last winter was very quiet.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,732 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    My prediction is mild wet and windy winter. Predict it every year 9 out of ten times it clicks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,036 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    The best start to September since 1991 is very welcome but please don’t let the coming winter be like 91-92!

    There was weeks if not months on end of anticyclonic gloom as one stagnant high after another sat on top of us from Dec to Feb if my memory serves me right.

    I’ll take 14c in a drizzly Tm airmass before the dreaded anticyclonic gloom in any winter!

    At least mild, wet and windy is weather!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,606 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I hope it's dry and cold. The night sky last night was wonderful. Hoping for many more of those.

    The 10 days of cold and frost in mid December last year were amazing. I had never seen so much rime frost before. The fog was soupy too.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,637 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    The rime frost started to look like snow after a while. It was like a classic winter photo the way it stayed on the trees all day. The fog rising off the cold fields in the late afternoon was class too. That's why a cold spell in the heart of winter is always best. If we can't have snow, then a repeat of that kind of cold spell is the next best thing. I fear though we are in for one of those awful early 90s winters that had very mild temps throughout.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    Potentially I think a disaster of a winter for those hoping for cold. Our only hope is the qbo is in its easterly phase and hopefully we get a modoki el nino....... that could lead to a very decent winter. So it could be a case of win or bust.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,732 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,140 ✭✭✭highdef


    Oh I'd very happily accept 3 winter months of calm, cool and cloudy weather versus less cool, windy and wet. The latter is hell for me.

    The days are short anyway and there's a severe lack of daylight so I'd rather dry, calm and dull. Nothing worse than weeks or months in end of the roads and footpaths being constantly damp or wet. Yuck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Well, its Ireland.

    It will have few cold weeks, a few wet weeks and a few milder weeks. A few storms, some very windy and wet nothing major. Possibly a bit of snow. Possibly no snow. Possibly a nice cold snap with a bit of persistent snow for a few days. Maybe we will get a little ice forming on puddles, probably not.

    Nothing unusual for Ireland at all. As usual.

    Oh and I predict climate change is mentioned with every bit of snow, and every cold spell, and if we dont have a cold spell, climate change mentioned also. If its wet - climate change. If its dry - climate change.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,508 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy




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