Which brand of plug sockets to buy.

RetroEncabulator

Polarity is actually are enforced in France and Belgium now - live on the right, neutral on the left. Only the flat 2.5amp plugs used on small appliances are reversible. However, I still wouldn't trust older wiring to be polarised though and EU harmonised regs don't require it anyway as 'Schuko' used in most countries is fully reversible. Sure even here you can reverse a 'figure of 8' connector without any issue. All their MCBs are DP though.

However, I was just more stunned at the price of French electrical accessories. They don't allow the general CEE 7 (schuko) stuff. It has to be French with the earth pin and polarisation and shutters. A lot of ppl seemed to think it was just protectionist lobbying by Legrand and Schneider Electrique.

However, I think until USB C (at full power output) becomes ubiquitous I wouldn't really be all that fussed about installing the sockets in a domestic setting. It's just expensive and also the electronics providing the USB C power are usually not isolatable with a switch, so are effectively connected 24/7.

I'd be more concerned about some of the crappier smart sockets and so on that are appearing. It could also get worse in years to come due to UK drift from CE standards or end up with poor customs enforcement and I would assume Ireland will be unable to enforce anti-grey market regs. A lot will depend on whether the UK goes for tight regs or free market laissez faire (burn the red tape etc etc)

There are plenty of dodgy looking electronic devices - USB sockets, smart sockets, data over mains or wifi etc that are being made to quite dubious standards and are widely available online and being integrated into people's fixed wiring.

kirk.

Commercial is a no brainer,people need USB sockets on the move ,airports, buses at work etc

Domestic you may prefer separates for expensive equipment

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890371#Comment_120890371

However, I think until USB C (at full power output) becomes ubiquitous I wouldn't really be all that fussed about installing the sockets in a domestic setting. It's just expensive and also the electronics providing the USB C power are usually not isolatable with a switch, so are effectively connected 24/7.

I don't know if common-or-garden wall sockets will ever offer full 100w or even 240w USB3, it's risky in a situation where you don't control the power delivery - ie the cable. I've had bad cables melt here just on 5v @ 2A. I'd like to think that devices which need >100w will require an approved power supply with a tethered (hardwired) cable. I know that the power configuration is controlled by the receiving device (the USB PD protocol) and that it should be able to identify a voltage sag due to a bad cable... but... I dunno.

But I could be wrong.

coylemj

I was getting my immmersion (Sink/Bath) switch replaced a few years ago and liked the design of the Hager/Sollysta switches and sockets so I've been gradually rolling out their light switches and switched wall sockets to replace old kit.

They say their USB socket (A+C) uses <150 mW in standby, what do the experts think? It's the one at the link below..

https://www.hager.ie/products-e-catalogue/wiring-accessories/sollysta/white-moulded/white-moulded-sockets/wmss82-usbac/104135.htm

RetroEncabulator

You could see a lot of small electronics having optional USB C power though if buildings were actually wired for it - plenty use >100W

Although, other than countries using the enormous UK plugs we use here, most have a neat 2-pin mains for small devices e.g. CEE 7/16 (the flat 2.5amp Europlug) in Europe or NEMA 1-15 in the US, Canada & Japan, and the 2-pin version of the Aussi/NZ/Chinese plug, so I doubt it's all that relevant to manufacturers to be bothered as there are already very neat solutions in most other countries.

The fold up pin chargers that have appeared in this market in recent years have also resolved a lot of the issues of having to carry bulky devices.

2011

I was very glad of USB outlets on transatlantic flights! Agree,

USB C is the future, USB A is being phased out.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120890717#Comment_120890717

Hager is a strong brand, likely to be up to spec.

kirk.

Why isn't there dedicated USB wall outlets available .You could simply switch them off in that case .

Or alternatively a central PS with modular components that can be upgraded and ELV wiring to wall outlets

Thinking out loud there but I'm not sold on USB sockets for domestic in the main

RetroEncabulator

Centrally supplied USB C isn’t all that ideal. You get into low voltage and high amperage - big conductors, voltage drop and fire hazards.

Low voltage is fine over short runs but over long ones you start to see why 230V is used! I’ve seen some scary looking melted junctions on low voltage DIY halogen lighting. Thankfully cool, low wattage LEDs have largely done way with it!

I wouldn’t fancy having a few hundred watts running on 24V.

kirk.

Ya was thinking that mightn't be ideal with voltage /current

Main issue with12v halogen was the wiring and heat of bulb, don't recall any issues caused by the 12v itself

RetroEncabulator

I’ve seen junctions literally melted by 12V from a large transformer driving 400W of halogens.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892341#Comment_120892341

Google didn't bring up much on USB only wall outlets

All they'd need is a fuse and a switch incorporated on a single plate

You'd be able to switch off and upgrades would be cheaper than USB sockets . They wouldn't be a retrofit item probably why they're not available?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893266#Comment_120893266

See the Honeywll/MK link provided by 2011 in the last page - this range has a hotel-style "Euro USB" module which fits into a wall-plate, but I don't see the plate in the brochure. Other than that I don't know of a USB-only socket. Not sure they are even viable outside that modular one.

RetroEncabulator

There are definitely 'Euro' modules available for making up your own plates.

The biggest issue in Ireland or the UK is our sockets are designed to be very shallow and extremely flush with the wall. It's literally part of the original design concept from the 1940s and was considered important as one of the most common causes of shock was knocking surface mounted sockets off walls when cleaning, leaving broken fittings and exposed wiring. They used to be commonly installed on skirtings.

I remember reading some article about it as a piece of modern industrial design. It was something that was driven by female industrial designers in the 1940s who looked at the practicalities of it from a use point of view - that's why it has shutters, why it's flat etc etc. On the contrary, the US system for example is all about being cheap and easy to manufacture and Schuko is just a kludge of grandfathered standards.

A lot of other European countries have much deeper boxes to accommodate recessed sockets (Schuko/French ones are quite deep) or are a lot more tolerant of surface mounted stuff that sticks out. So you can't really get large modules like USB sockets into quite a lot of our socket boxes, at least without resulting in a bulky thing sticking out of the wall.

Then in North America, they use plasterboard (drywall) everywhere so you can fit anything you like as there's no depth issue.

We are very restricted on depth here.

coylemj

The biggest issue in Ireland or the UK is our sockets are designed to be very shallow and extremely flush with the wall. It's literally part of the original design concept from the 1940s and was considered important as one of the most common causes of shock was knocking surface mounted sockets off walls when cleaning, leaving broken fittings and exposed wiring. They used to be commonly installed on skirtings.

They were 'commonly installed on skirtings' because, in most houses, there was already a conduit in each room for the light switch and householders probably wanted to avoid one that travelled from the ceiling to just above the floor for each socket so running the wiring behind the skirting probably made sense.

And I would contend that the common cause of shocks was not knocking the socket off the surface mount, it was when a child stuck a metal pin into the (unshuttered) live hole of a two-pin socket which was only inches above the floor.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894112#Comment_120894112

Yes for sure. That and putting your fingers in between the plug and socket when there was no plastic finger protection around the pins.

kirk.

Is there any sign of standardizing USB charging all around or is it here ?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894309#Comment_120894309

It's all standardised, Kirk. USB2 were the common rectangular ones and that went up to 1.5A @ 5v. USB3 pushed that even further with higher voltages, but the trick is that the device needs to request the higher charging current by negotiating it with the charger (using this USB PD handshake).

https://www.androidauthority.com/usb-power-delivery-806266/

So right now if you plugged in a basic USB2 device into a USB2 port the max power delivery that you should obtain is 500mA @ 5v, while with USB3 it's 900mA at the same voltage. Some manufacturers have gone beyond this and offer higher basic power, but that's a out-of-USB-spec device in that case.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894374#Comment_120894374

I must keep up 😁

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120891011#Comment_120891011

Dedicated USB outlets are available (in grid), here is a picture of some of mine (from MK):

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882632#Comment_120882632

I just checked, I was incorrect. The switch on the socket does not turn off the USB outlet, for some reason I thought it did.

RetroEncabulator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120894112#Comment_120894112

I'm not trying to have an argument about it. It's an actual known early case study in post WWII industrial design.

There was a project all about coming up with a practical new system to replace all the old kludges of the past. They opted not to grandfather anything and to just start from scratch, with a system that was deliberately designed to displace all the older stuff.

The almost completely flush socket design was a big element of that because the older systems had resulted in significant numbers of shocks caused by fittings becoming damaged on walls either because of furniture being moved around, brushes and vacuum cleaners striking things and so on. It wasn't just sockets, but light switches and so on.

The physical plugs/receptacles seem to have come from an MK design, which predates the standard and was adopted as part of it. MK developed aspects of quite a few of the systems that became UK standards.

There were multiple competing designs for a while too, which included some very odd plug/socket systems with flat pins, ones that had piggy-back plugs that fitted into each other and so on. You could find some of those in UK social authority homes in particular in the 60, 70s and well into the 80s. They all met the minimum standards around flush fittings, fuses, shutters, earthing etc, but they're quite different to what became the standard system we know now.

Hotblack Desiato

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets_-_British_and_related_types - some of the oddball ones:

Wylex 1926:

Dorman & Smith 1943:

Then there were (are??) ones deliberately designed to be incompatible but otherwise similar to standard plugs and sockets:

MK T-shaped earth pin:

Walsall:

Round pins are still used for theatrical lighting (and hotel room lamps controlled by a master switch).

kirk.

The non-standard plug is still in use .The regulations refer to them

IT equipment etc where you don't want rcd protection

The non standard socket prevents other portable appliances being plugged in

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120893334#Comment_120893334

How do the euro USB modules work

How are they powered ?

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120907441#Comment_120907441

Look at the photo in post #51 above taken in my house. The USB module clicks into a grid and then a front plate is attached to this. In my case I simply connected 230V from a socket circuit directly to it. I could have used a larger grid and front plate (for a twin box), this would have allowed me to incorporate a DP isolation switch for the USB module into the same front plate.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120907474#Comment_120907474

Is there a fuse

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120907543#Comment_120907543

In my case, no. The documentation provided with the USB module stated the required rating and characteristic of the MCB. My wiring met this requirement. A fuse could have been added. 

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120907597#Comment_120907597

What the rating of it output voltage , wattage

Seems odd no fusing

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120908747#Comment_120908747

Not sure of the rating of my one, but as you can see this newer MK module with USB A and USB C is rated for 3.1A at 5V:

https://www.electricalworld.com/en/ie/KnightsBridge-Dual-USB-Charger-31A-Module-25-x-50mm---White/m-16854.aspx?PartnerID=73&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=Ireland&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwzo2mBhAUEiwAf7wjkrCkqa-zl9xJngblGSRV5csQeDVr-Y1JfOaP5iLuf165DIKVl7Z1TBoC77cQAvD_BwE

Remember many socket outlets have USB outlets and they are not fed from fuses.

What would you suggest the fuse is rated at?

As the module is rated at 15.5 W the upstream current (at 230 VAC) would less than 0.07 A so even a fuse rated at 1 amp would be of no benefit.