High Irish GDP is an illusion, Ireland is not that rich

SupaCat95

ALot of the 7/10 who want to leave the country are day dreamers. They have the idea of the idea would be great but who would look after grandad, or I would miss my friends or I have no sellable qualification. Most of those people have no motivation to leave because the sad reality is they spend their days working near minimum wages in jobs they will never graduate from to the next level. They also have no motivation to give up social media/weed/Xbox and formulate another plan.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878172#Comment_120878172

The characteristics you mention are all important ones, but I do think you're stretching the concept of "wealth" a bit far; that broad collection of indicators might better be termed "welfare" or "well-being", of which wealth is just one component.

A country can be wealthy but its wealth can be distributed very unevenly — i.e. the country can be characterised by high inequality, with a significant proportion of the population having living standards that are typical of countries that are, overall, much poorer. To complicate matters, you can measure inequality in different ways — do you look at the distribution of wealth, i.e. capital assets? Or at the distribution of income? After-tax income? Household consumption?

A lot of these measures have nothing at all to do with GDP and so in the Irish context they are not distorted by our anomalous GDP figures. So, although the measurement of inequality is complex, if you want to compare Ireland with other countries there are lots of metrics of inequality that you can use to make consistent comparisons with other countries. And while that might be an interesting and valuable exercise, it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, so might be best conducted in another thread.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878139#Comment_120878139

It was claimed it's an age specific problem.

Whereas it's simply a chronic supply issue. It's not going to fixed not going to be fixed for years. If you are waiting for that....

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878425#Comment_120878425

This isn't a one-or-the-other thing; it's a supply issue that plays out in a way that adversely impacts a particular age group. If you can address the supply issue, that will correspondingly benefit that age group.

Assume for the moment that its true that the chronic supply issue is not going to be fixed for years. Given that, we either fix it over a period of years, or we don't fix it at all; those are the only two options that are allowed by the parameters of the problem.

If you're not happy with that, then you have to challenge the notion that it can only be fixed over years; you have to explore ways of fixing it more quickly than that. What are the factors that constrain us from addressing this supply shortage more quickly? Can we change those factors? Etc. All kinds of things are possible if the political will is there, but we have to be honest with ourselves about the trade-offs that will be required.

techman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878199#Comment_120878199

Those are the guys on social welfare and low income jobs they are very well looked after in our current welfare state so these people obviously would have no incentive to leave ireland,

I agree that probably the 7 out of 10 figure is over stated somewhat because even these welfare recipients when asked in a poll would say that "ireland is a kip" and they want to leave because it is a cool thing to tell a pollster. Alot of these polls asking people's opinions are very unreliable.

However while not losing low paid and welfare recipients we are losing young middle income workers who are worse off in Ireland than internationally. The esri survey has shown that. The low paid are better off, the older people and pensioners are better off but the squeezed middle is worse off than international comparisons.

bb1234567

It's not doing badly either though. Average household income is similar to the UK, which another high income country by world standards.

rock22

@techman1 "Those are the guys on social welfare and low income jobs"

Why would people need welfare if they are working. Only because they are being paid a wage far below the living wage.

We can fix that by bringing in a minimum wage that is sufficient to live in this country. People don't choose to work for a low wage if they can help it. I don't know how you can say they are well looked after. You seem to be resorting to nothing more than just 'victim blaming'

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878612#Comment_120878612

What's our unemployment rate? And what's our long time unemployment rate?

I'm still looking for this massive section of society on the pigs back...

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878517#Comment_120878517

Its been a problem for a quarter of a century, and people aren't laving in the same numbers that they did in the past. Last peak was about 2012, before that it was 1989. Those "age groups" decide to vote with their feet, and do something about it while in the prime of their lives.

What is the current "particular age group" doing to fix its own problems. It shouldn't be talking about quick fixes. It should be doing them. Be that political reform, public protest, emigration whatever.

https://www.independent.ie/life/how-the-brain-drain-hit-ireland-in-the-80s/26506538.html

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878634#Comment_120878634

UK has its own issues headline stats aside.

Bluefoam

If 7/10 young people want to leave the country, why are they still here... just go if it's that bad.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876618#Comment_120876618

Absolutely and they have every right to be here and I also am pro multi culturisim.

The point is the Irish people leaving might not leave if they got the required skills and training that the multinationals require.

The demographic is just very unusual for something like IT that are effectively global qualifications.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878825#Comment_120878825

Have to say I'm wondering the same thing. Emigration is up slightly but where is the flood thats being predicted. If the argument is something should be done here. Well what action are they taking here. Emigration isn't always a negative. The opportunity to travel and work in other places is also an opportunity.

I can't see it changing anytime soon here. It requires political change and a different economic environment. Neither will happen overnight. How long will people wait for it. 2yrs, 5yrs 10yrs. The situation here is chronic, no argument. I personally just wouldn't be waiting around for it to be fixed.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878905#Comment_120878905

I think the issue with tech and similar, is companies won't train people. So it hard to get experience to get in the door. They will buy in experience, as cheaply as they can. They also won't pay juniors enough to make it viable with the cost of living.

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878825#Comment_120878825

They "want" to leave. They may not have the finance to do so. In any country they arrive in they may not be able to access the Social welfare system for some time or there may not be any at all. I am in full agreement with United Arab Eremites, "If you cant find work in 90 days, FO!", ie they will not restamp your entry VISA and so it should be. You also have to be able to finance yourself for several months (6 months lease plus security deposit on a property, plus food and energy and water). Its not written but it may be some time before you get paid. Plus you also must have a relevant qualification to get out there.

If you are over 23 and living at home with your parents, that is a fairly depressing state. If you are working, paying rent and have nothing to show for it at the end of the week that is fairly depressing. I do appreciate that rents have gone through the roof and wages have stood stagnant for 15 years.

Most people were born in a box and told to make it as nice and comfy as possible. A few of us were born in the same type of boxes and told there was nothing for us and to go find a better box.

Sadly at the WEF meeting one commentator was asked what are we going to do with all these useless people, the reply that came back was to keep them occupied with video games and drugs.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880809#Comment_120880809

Not sure I can reconcile the mindset of needing social security and 6 months holiday money and your own gaff, in an expensive country.

As a means of escaping high costs here.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880809#Comment_120880809

I can't believe I just read that... Why the **** would someone 'access the social welfare system' of a country they just emigrated to. This is a strange mentality. Go there, work, make yourself better... forget about welfare. This country is full of loosers with that kind of mentality.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880916#Comment_120880916

There are a lot of people who believe the state of affairs is part of a "master plan" engineered by the WEF and other shadowy organisations.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880981#Comment_120880981

& theres allot of people who believe in the boogeyman... who cares...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880916#Comment_120880916

Again, what's our long term unemployment rate? How, exactly, is the country full of spongers?

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881242#Comment_120881242

I never mentioned spongers... You must have meant to quote someone else.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881272#Comment_120881272

"This country is full of loosers (sic)"

Sorry I viewed spongers as synonymous with losers.

This country is full of nothing of the sort and pure FG and rightist propaganda. Fid you buy into Leo's "Welfare cheats cheat us all" nonsense?

SupaCat95

In the UAE, you will not be paid like you are paid here. In the west it's a very serious thing if you are not paid your salary in total in full on time in the Arab states you can be paid up to 3 months late. So yeah you do need cash reserves and a great job prospects just to arrive. However writing a bad cheques (yes bank cheques are a real thing out there) are a serious offence.

SupaCat95

I am illustrating the differences between Western society and successful economies in the Arab world (btw I never said they were nice places to work for unskilled/semiskilled construction workers or migrant fisher men from India or the Philippines

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881242#Comment_120881242

The majority of able-bodied adults in Ireland on welfare are not on JSA.

Another bit of data: there are 40,000 construction workers on the Live Register in the middle of a housing crisis.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881586#Comment_120881586

You made the argument people can't afford to emigrate. Using an expensive country a very long way as an example. That makes no sense.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878425#Comment_120878425

Well, it could be both. There is a dramatic age profile to home ownership. That much is not in doubt.,

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888057#Comment_120888057

Seems to be a problem with the under 20s. Maybe we should make it easier for them and harder for everyone else. If its about age.

SupaCat95

If people actually listened to the real news from the WEF. They DO tell you what they plan to do. It's not a secret, it's just most dopes occupy their time with spectator sports, soaps, reality TV and Reuters based media.

SupaCat95

Pick any other country you want unless you have an extremely sought after skill and in reality can enter the country with 6 months salary. They don't really want to know you. You pick a realistic country that an Irish person would immigrate to.