Jean Kleyn N/IQ

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834717#Comment_120834717

Think this was always likely, however if they keep looking at Mostert as a blindside, and keep going with a 6-2 split on the bench, then Kleyn's chances are looking up.

The absolute gaping hole in that Boks team is Damian Willemse at 10. He's a nice footballer but I don't think he's a test quality 10, especially coming up against the ABs.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834717#Comment_120834717

Pretty much the first choice 23, minus Kolisi and Pollard. OH probably the biggest weakness for them. Helluva bench

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833223#Comment_120833223

1. He has potentially completely blown up his life with this decision and might not even make the SA WC squad. He could lose his Munster contract (wouldnt be the first for an Irish player who gets capped elsewhere) or not be renewed in 2024 and have to move away from his new roots.

Well exactly. So why would he do that if the Ireland option was still on the table? I think it's extremely unlikely he would.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838472#Comment_120838472

For a chance to play for SA in the world cup? I wouldn't find that a particularly odd choice anyway.

Ultimately we'll never know so 🤷‍♀️

It still remains a selection on the fringe of the squad either way and I don't think anyone in either the SA or Irish management were losing any sleep over the whole thing.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838509#Comment_120838509

That order is not quite what was claimed tho.

I'd guess there were advanced stage talks with kleyn expressing his wishes to switch to SA, and once that was known he was out of Ireland contention.

Other posters as well have suggested he ruled himself out of Ireland selection to pursue a SA call up.

I don’t think we’ve any reason to believe that’s the case, given what we actually know and what’s actually been said.

Cookiemunster

Lads he literally said last week that he wasn't expecting the call.

Asked about his reaction when he received the call from Rassie Erasmus, SA Rugby’s Director of Rugby, to play for the Springboks, Kleyn admitted he wasn’t expecting it.

“I was as shocked as the rest of the world when I got the call,” he said.

“My journey (here) was a bit of a round trip because Rassie was the person who took me to Munster, and four years later he was also the person to bring me back. It’s a massive honour and an opportunity I could not pass by.”

https://www.springboks.rugby/news-features/articles/2023/07/05/kleyn-thrilled-as-springbok-debut-awaits-in-pretoria/

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838861#Comment_120838861

I don't overly care about this one way or the other, but it wouldn't exactly be a shock if a player wasn't completely honest in an interview.

I wish him all the best (except for the Ireland game) and hope and expect he'll get an extension at Munster anyway. There also doesn't need to be any shenanigans because clearly Farrell wasn't a massive fan at the end of the day. I just wouldn't be surprised if he'd at least had some talks with SA management over the last while.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839007#Comment_120839007

That's the point tho. If Farrell clearly wasn't a massive fan, then it makes the possibility / necessity of shenanigans way less likely.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838472#Comment_120838472

I never said the Irish option was on the table. Whether it was Farrell or Kleyn, that has been off for a while.

My point was that it simply isn’t credible that the process for Kleyn to start considering SA started from an unexpected call from Rassie after he wasn’t selected for Ireland.

It would be completely reckless of him to potentially blow up the life of his close and extended family on what some here are making out was a spur of the moment decision.

No one knows the truth about how long he had been speaking to SA but it defies logic that Kleyn hasn’t at minimum been considering this potential switch for a while (and absolutely fair play to him for chasing his dream)

Cookiemunster

How is he 'blowing up his life' exactly? He's at Munster for at least another year, so things will be pretty stable for a bit yet.

However he's a professional sportsman and nothing is guaranteed in that life. Even without the SA call up, at any point he could be attracted by a big offer from France seeing as he wasn't getting anywhere near the Irish squad. He could easily go there for a few years and then return and settle down in the home he's built in Limerick. As many other professional players have done before him.

Former Former Former

It was a no-brainer for Kleyn in the end.

If we picked up a few injuries and he got a call-up and got another Ireland cap, then he's never going to play for the Springboks.

But then post-RWC, he's 30 years old and we're into a new 4-year cycle so he's probably not going to be needed by Ireland either, especially with Farrell and POC in situ until 2025 at least.

Then next season, he finds that guys on the wrong side of 30 who aren't Ireland regulars don't fare too well in contract negotiations (see also: Marmion, Kieron).

Instead he gets to play for his native country, has a shot at the World Cup and gets to put himself in the shop window for a better deal elsewhere in 2024.

And despite the talk of the depth in SA rugby, his immediate rival was Marvin Orie. I'd say he fancied his chances there. I'd fancy my chances there.

And if he and RG Snyman are mates off the field, you can be guaranteed this was a regular topic of conversation. There's no way this just fell out of the sky.

Buer

There's an assumption by many that this means Kleyn will be forced to leave Ireland. I don't think that will be the case. The likelihood is that Snyman will move on at the end of his contract. He has extended once already, has had a fairly mixed time of it in Limerick and there's now significantly more money floating around SA than there was 6 years ago when he left.

That leaves a NIQ spot available and I'd assume Kleyn will avail of that for a 2 year deal. He might move on. I'm sure he'll have options now and his profile has improved (and the money on the table will too) but I don't think he's going to be prevented from signing if he wants to.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839007#Comment_120839007

That's a roundabout way of calling him a liar

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839638#Comment_120839638

This is a less roundabout way of calling him a liar

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841068#Comment_120841068

If you want to view it that way suit yourself. I think believing 100% of everything sportspeople say is pretty ridiculously naïve (nor, frankly, does he owe us the truth in the matter).

I'm not about to tell my employer if I'm searching for a new job, I just don't get asked that question by the media.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841068#Comment_120841068

That’s a very loaded and emotive way of putting it. Is life that black and white for you? That somethings either complete truth or lie?

Akrasia

If Kleyn says he wasn't expecting a callup and it was a complete surprise, and someone comes on and says 'It would not be a shock if he wasn't completely truthful' then yes, that's a poster going out of their way to say 'yeah, he could have been lying'

Kleyn has nothing to gain from saying he was surprised by the call up.

He said in February that he was still fully open to being called up by Ireland. Ireland never called him up, so when Rassie called he accepted the offer.

There is no reason to cast aspersions on Kleyn's character, by speculating that he might just be 'not completely truthful' in interviews on this topic.

(or as Foxtrol said, outright calling his interview as beyond credibility, thereby outright accusing him of lying)

(I actually have more respect for Foxtrol's position, at least they say it outright instead of trying to slip in speculation by the back door with no evidence to back it up)

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841399#Comment_120841399

There is no reason to cast aspersions on Kleyn's character

I'm not. I don't consider it impactful to his character one iota.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841156#Comment_120841156

Kleyn had already accepted the new job when he made the statement that it came out of nowhere

Do you lie to your employers in the exit interview and say that you were just headhunted out of nowhere when you're leaving a job?

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841399#Comment_120841399

Can I ask what your evidence is? At the end of the day you’re just speculating to the contrary and accusing others of calling him a liar.

The truth is nobody knows what exactly went on and anybody commentating is just speculating. That’s what happens on a discussion board.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841411#Comment_120841411

Sure, I would happily do so if I thought it was relevant. I don't owe them anything.

I think pro sportspeople get plenty of training in speaking to the media and how to approach it and this often involves not being completely honest. I don't consider this impinging upon their character, they don't owe us anything.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841405#Comment_120841405

Others may, including him and his family.

Kleyn already suffered a lot from attacks on media and social media after the RWC in 2019 (even before the RWC when he was accused openly of being a mercenary who took a spot from Toner. to the point where he deleted his social media accounts for his own mental well-being. He has spoken about this, and Munster fans have supported him through this for the past few years.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841424#Comment_120841424

I am taking Kleyn's statements at their face value. There has been no evidence provided by anyone, other than speculation, that he is not being truthful

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841428#Comment_120841428

Well that's probably the difference between you and I.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841440#Comment_120841440

Interesting. Would you take everyone’s statements at their face value? Have you ever been in a situation where someone told you something that you took at face value and wasn’t actually 100% true?

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841872#Comment_120841872

I think what someone says publicly and on record is generally closer to the truth than accepting what some anonymous poster claims in an effort to get a reaction.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841982#Comment_120841982

I think when some anonymous poster claims other posters are suggesting that a player is a liar in an effort to get a reaction, it should be called out when

1. that isn’t what happened
2. that poster has no additional evidence to back up this claim.

Nobody knows what has been going on behind the scenes. Everyone is speculating. And so what if he was talking in the background? That isn’t a stick to beat him with. People are being overly defensive and suggesting that it’s an attack on him. He would have been stupid if he wasn’t open to that conversation. I certainly would be in my line of work. It’s how you advance in any career. I certainly wouldn’t go shouting about it to my bosses or work colleagues though.

easymoneysnipa

'Jean Kleyn is not an international standard player' having being proven to be absolute nonsense, as many blessed with eyesight could see for quite a long time has now morphed into 'Jean Kleyn is a liar'.

Wonder what he'll be when Jacques N is trying to sign him next summer. A glow up on the horizon in the eyes of the currently very astutely skeptical.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842085#Comment_120842085

Rather than a new post, I'll repeat myself because you seem to want to mop up the water rather then fix the leak.

I think what someone says publicly and on record is generally closer to the truth than accepting what some anonymous poster claims in an effort to get a reaction.

I'd say the second the new rule was announced the possibility entered Kleyn's mind and no doubt SA would have likely contacted him in some capacity. I can't imagine why they wouldn't.

It wouldn't surprised me at all if the first formal contact came after Kleyn was not named in the 42 man squad.

For all we know Kleyn has had a conversation with Munster / IRFU and has some assurances regarding his future in Ireland. I hope he ends up at Leinster because the drama would be terrific. Also, if he does end up at Leinster I take back what I've said about him and Farrell was wrong not to pick him. If he goes elsewhere he's a big turncoat fecker.