Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Napoleon - Apple TV+ - Ridley Scott & Joaquin Phoenix

Options
1356

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,444 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388550#Comment_121388550

    Yeah.

    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1726300602672742659

    If it feels authentic enough, it'll be fine by me. I ultimately go to the cinema to be entertained. I've Andrew Roberts' biography of the man for when I want to properly learn about one of the most remarkable lives in history.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #63
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388922#Comment_121388922

    Interesting the French critics are calling it pro British and anti French. Hard to know how accurate that statement will be given Napoleon was a tyrant and a bit of a warmonger.



  • Options
    #64
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,444 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389017#Comment_121389017

    It's a matter of perspective. Either Napoleon or Subutai would claim the mantle of history's greatest general. Napoleon left reforms some of which remain in place today and essentially dominated the continent until his disastrous Russian campaign. Had he accepted peace at his zentih, who knows what could have been. Contiental Europe still retains much of his reforms while the US, the UK and the former British Empire retain a legal tradition founded on English Common Law.

    To put it bluntly, very few people who changed anything weren't horrible. George Washington owned slaves for instance.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #65
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,444 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    As much as I like Vanessa Kirby, I hope they don't go too far down the angle of her dominating him as implied by the trailer.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #66
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389114#Comment_121389114

    I think in real life though Napoleon did act a bit of a fool in his love for Josephine. I seem to recall that she had a number of affairs when they were together.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    nachouser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭nachouser


    I'm fine with the odd historical inaccuracy, as long as the film includes the hand to hand fight at the Colosseum between Napoleon and Wellington. Only then will I be entertained.



  • Options
    #68
    silliussoddius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389146#Comment_121389146

    ….

    Untitled Image




  • Options
    #69
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Ridley truly is one ornery fella; not sure just slamming The French as self loathing will go down entirely well but hey; it's a choice.

    And a biographer of Napoleon, Patrice Gueniffey in Le Point magazine, attacked the film as a "very anti-French and very pro-British" rewrite of history.

    "The French don't even like themselves" Scott retorts. "The audience that I showed it to in Paris, they loved it."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67419876




  • Options
    #70
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,444 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The Musée de l'Armée is one of my all time favourite museums. They've uploaded a video where they critique the film. I spent a whole day there and left wanting to go back. They've got Napoleon's Sword of Austerlitz and the legend himself is buried there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhRb-Ma7nq0

    I can't see myself paying to watch it at the BFI. I was so looking forward to this but I think a walk to Cineworld will suffice.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #71
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389017#Comment_121389017

    He was a jumped up little man child.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396850#Comment_121396850

    he was 5'7 , I wonder how much English propaganda we have absorbed about him because we are in the Anglo sphere?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Options
    #73
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396868#Comment_121396868

    I was in Spain a few years ago and they definitely didn't have anything good to say about Napoleon either. Probably affected the British and Spanish more than anyone else, with perhaps the Polish having a soft spot for him.



  • Options
    #74
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,770 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396868#Comment_121396868

    Ahead of his time. Tried to unify Europe long before the EU brought in great reforms. Took the British and the Germans (Prussia) to bring him dowm.



  • Options
    #75
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397022#Comment_121397022

    he certainly had unintended consequences, it was the first army to have mass conscription , and it motivated the Germans to move beyond their medieval ways of organising for war. No Napoleon and there may not have been a WW1 or WW2

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Options
    #76
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397062#Comment_121397062

    I think the French revolution inspir3d the introduced of conscription rather than Napoleon himself. Hitler definitely was inspired by Napoleon, even was respectful at his tomb. I think Napoleon definitely showed even with more modern weaponry with a professional army you could still successfully invade alot of Europe. I hope Ridley doesn't depict him as a total fool.



  • Options
    #77
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397077#Comment_121397077

    I'd be inclined to wait for the full movie as they might leave a lot of the political exposition out of it

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Options
    #78
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397053#Comment_121397053

    Walked straight into kutsovo's trap.

    He was a clown with a chip on his shoulder.



  • Options
    #79
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,444 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397053#Comment_121397053

    Took more than one pan-European coalition. If he hadn't made his ill-fated march to Moscow, who knows how things might have turned out.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #80
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,177 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396868#Comment_121396868

    Its more than just that. The propaganda version stuck because the Napoleon complex reads as a much better story. We want it to be true.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #81
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397642#Comment_121397642

    Not sure if this is a joke or not :)



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396868#Comment_121396868

    Legacies tend to get muddied

    Regardless of his physical height while smaller than the average male. His actions are that of someone with small man syndrome.

    When your the cause of the deaths of millions of people mostly young for your own personal glory.

    People often assign "tactical brilliance" to a war won. It's like anything else. There was a huge amount of people that don't get a single line wrote about them that would have had a huge impact on tactical decisions. Historians are often lazy and the general public more so. So it's kept simple and focused on the one little jumped up runt of a man so he claims all the plaudits.

    His thirst for his own personal ambition was his downfall and led to his eventual demise.

    The amount of human suffering he caused is beyond comprehension.

    Anyone that thinks such a person is a genius or a hero would want to have a long hard look at themselves.



  • Options
    #83
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,885 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    so has anyone seen the film yet?



  • Options
    #84
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    one review I saw, out of the cinema was ,"and this happened, then this happened, then this happened....." but looks good

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Options
    #85
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,444 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This is looking like another Scott botch job. I'll suspend judgement until I see it but I'm feeling more and more pessimistic.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #86
    2smiggy
    Registered Users Posts: 20,028 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    this is a film, not a historical documentary !!

    why do people have difficulty separating the two ?

    I will happily watch the film, but have feck all interest in a historical documentary on Napoleon 



  • Options
    #87
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,444 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399932#Comment_121399932

    That's a shame. He's one of the most successful and fascinating people to ever have existed.

    As for the historical side of the film, I think expecting authenticity is fair while expecting accuracy beyond a certain point is a bit naive. A inconsistencies in the battle of Austerlitz is one thing, having Napoleon fight Hitler or something stupid like that would be immersion-breaking.

    Braveheart and Michael Collins are good examples. It doesn't matter that the details of Harry Boland's death are wrong or that Ned Broy was never found out by Dublin Castle. The film feels authentic and that's enough. Braveheart, by contrast, would only be rendered slightly less realistic by the presence of dragons and wizards. There's a limit is what I'm trying to say.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #88
    flasher0030
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399932#Comment_121399932

    Same as yourself. All I know about Napoleon is what I learned in school and what I might have picked up over the years from the media. I am looking forward to watching this for entertainment, not to tear it apart on account of inaccuracies.



  • Options
    #89
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399955#Comment_121399955

    Yet by all accounts I got the impression around the time of release that the Scots liked the movie? Though perhaps over time that has melted away after the white heat of hype subsided.

    I wonder how Kubrick's famed biopic that never was, had planned to tackle Napoleon; it is the problem with biopics in the first place though. It's very difficult to condense a person's life into a 2, 3 hour runtime without making some judicious leaps, omissions or conjectures.



  • Options
    #90
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,146 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    TBH, everything I've seen about this film has just made me commit to clearing a block over Christmas to finally watch the Abel Gance 1927 Napoleon that I've been putting off for a few years (Blu-Ray is just sitting there waiting to be watching).



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I've tried & tried, but watching Silent Movies is just a step too far. The theatricality, the utter lack of even archaic techniques, the distracting make-up often used by cast, and yeah - the silence. Tried a few Buster Keatons after the Blank Cheque podcast spoke of him a few months back and nope'd out of them quick enough.

    It's like reading Chaucer as a hobby; sure it has some historical importance but as an act of "enjoyment", almost insurmountable and alien in places such are the differences from anything tangential to a modern appetite



Advertisement