Wimbledon 2023

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120861524#Comment_120861524

Yesterday truly was a gladiatorial final and a good day for mens tennis. Whilst the outcome could have gone either way, what was notable was you could see that Alcaraz believed he could defeat Djokovic, that he was there for the taking. And Djokovic knew it too, that's why he was losing his cool & messing about. Carlos still had to deliver but he had the core belief. That psychological barrier is what has held many back against Novak, Nadal, Federer and Williams in the past. They might have had the skills but were overcome by the dominant personality on the other side of the court in big games.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120851810#Comment_120851810

I felt compelled to repost this.

Suffice to say, the last 24 hours has done nothing to change my opinion!

forumdedum

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120861524#Comment_120861524

intelligent and articulate. While I realise don’t belong on this thread I’m glad I popped back to read this. Bye all & thanks to those of you who are courteous.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120861524#Comment_120861524

Djokovic also helped lay out a blueprint that every other tennis player should be taking a leaf out of. As I mentioned earlier, his antics with the crowd are what cost him. But his slow serving was a brilliant tactic in not letting Alcaraz get into his rhythm and is something others on tour really need to take note of when playing him.

Unfortunately I get the sense from most of this younger generation that they would prefer to lose and be liked than win and be unliked. Novak was very different in that regard.

Royale with Cheese

Djokovic is desperate to be liked though. It clearly bothers him that the crowd are against him practically all of the time and he was never loved liked Federer or Nadal were.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120861673#Comment_120861673

Did you see the stats they put up on screen at one point in the match on Djokovic?

They picked a number of game key indicators - about 4 or 5 I think - throughout the tournament he was at an 8 on this scale. At the final he was down to a 6- essentially a 25% reduction in performance.

His unforced errors were off the scale. Was he alright I wonder on the day? Like did he have a dicky tummy or something that impacted his performance?

Not taking away from Carlos’ victory at all - he’s an incredible player either way- but did feel Djokovic wasn’t completely on form

I was convinced at the start of the 5th set that Djokovic would ramp it up a gear but it never happened.

kirk.

It's a weakness in Djokovics mental game

You cannot fight the crowd and benefit from it, you have to win them

Maybe Fed understood this or was he just a nicer guy

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862547#Comment_120862547

It definitely always annoyed him that it wasn't liked but he would never change to become liked and he never let it impact his desire or ability to win. I don't know if I'd say the same about the younger generation. Except maybe Holger Rune. Hopefully he can step up and seems like the type of character who might enjoy being disliked, or at least not let it bother him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862596#Comment_120862596

Tbf he's shown you can fight thr crowd and still win, it's what he has been doing for most of his career. For the last few years you almost get the sense he fights the crowd out of boredom and because he hasn't really respected most of his opponents or ever felt like he'd lose. So to motivate himself he has gotten into battles with the crowd.

Yesterday that became a distraction because he was finally up against a player who he needed to have 100% focus on to win. I'll be very surprised if it's a mistake he makes again.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862547#Comment_120862547

The crowd generally supports the underdog.

The last few years have gotten very repetitive. All the matches he plays up to the final are box ticking exercises. So the crowd gets behind the opponent to try to give them a nudge.

Then when he does long toilet breaks when he's losing (did you see Billy Jean king's face during that) but never when he's winning, goodwill starts to fade.

I personally have no problem with Djokovic, personality wise I think he's colder than others but I think that's a product of his environment. I do prefer Federer and Nadal even with or maybe because of all his twitching.

josip

The player whose tennis I most like to watch, Federer.

The player I'd go out for a few pints with, Nadal.

The player I support, Djokovic.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862588#Comment_120862588

Yes but was that not also because after the first set, that Alcaraz did not buckle - he gave as good as he got. He could see that his hero had feet of clay and could be broken. Which got into Djokovic's head and which led to errors. Novak has been the alpha male for many years in situations like that against younger players - yesterday he was taken down.

dominatinMC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862588#Comment_120862588

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Djokovic, and those that claim there was are clutching at straws.

The UE count and disjointed play was a result of the man at the other end of the court. He put Djokovic under constant pressure and didn't relent like a lot of his peers. Hence, we saw a different, human, Djokovic.

walshb

Nole played as good as he could aged 36. He’s not at his prime. That is clear. It’s just that him not being at his prime has not been needed against the best of this era. I backed Carlos to win in 4 based off what I had seen from both.

Carlos showed me more speed and dynamism on court; exactly what you’d expect from a 20 year old top class tennis player.

Nole looked sluggish and laboured in some of his earlier matches.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862588#Comment_120862588

My opinion is that I think he got complacent and that's what killed him. Winning the first 6-1 was, in hindsight, the worst thing to happen to him. After that in his mind he thought he won it, he had two set points in the second set and he loses both on two very lazy and awful backhand shots into the net. Even at the start of the 5th I'd say he thought he had it won, and he had two breaks points on Alcarazs first service game in that set, one he absolutely should have won as well.

MisterAnarchy

There's been a lot of BS in the media about Djokovic playing better than ever, and his unforced errors being low, I think yesterday showed that while he's still playing at a high level he is still well past his prime.

Yes the rubbish that Mats Wilander and Tim Henman were coming out with after the French Open was utter hyperbole.

Djokovic is better than ever, hitting the ball harder than ever and moving better than ever they claimed.

This defies all the laws of biology, no man hits harder than ever or moves better at the age of 36.

Wilander seems to be an absolute imbecile.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862963#Comment_120862963

From the number of similar replies here it sounds like his mental game crashed.

As I said, absolutely not wishing to take anything away from Carlos - he was superb in so many ways- especially the way he corrected his mistakes in the first half of the second set ie- he learned by mistakes what shots not to play, which I thought was a move many more seasoned players wouldn’t have done.

At 36 it’s certainly time for Djokovic to experience hard defeats but with his journey to the final without any real threat, I don’t think this will be his last yet.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863123#Comment_120863123

Didn't mac say it or agree with henman

I don't agree that it's biologically impossible for him to play his best tennis at 36 ,not now

MisterAnarchy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863125#Comment_120863125

His play yesterday was no worse than in many previous finals , notably in 2019 vs Federer.

The difference yesterday was Alcaraz won some vital key points, something other players failed to do.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862963#Comment_120862963

He did an awful lot of badgering of players throughout the week- more so I thought than usual- ie they’re all queuing up to beat me, well I’m ready for them” sort of thing.

I wonder if this mind games sort of carry on was him trying to knowingly compensate for an obvious decease in overall performance? It’s a sure sign someone is worried about something when they go on like that sort of near “trash talk” - it’s not really tennis is it? 😀

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862963#Comment_120862963

Losing the tiebreak broke him mentally I think.

If he won that I think he would have steamed ahead.

I don't agree he was playing a sluggish game due to age. If he was playing anyway sluggish, which I don't think he was, it was because no one has given him a decent challenge in a long time.

I also think he underestimated Alcaraz...he said himself ..he didn't think Alcaraz would trouble him on grass.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863151#Comment_120863151

And….Djokovic had many many unforced errors - I think he’s been treading water now for some time, maybe believing his own hype I dunno - he was certainly caught off guard yesterday but I don’t think at 36, he’s capable of adapting his game yet again - he’ll never beat Alcaraz at Wimbledon

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862588#Comment_120862588

The simple reason that Djokovic's performance wasn't as good yesterday is that usually he is playing comfortably within himself with little chance of losing, yesterday after the first set he was constantly under pressure, playing at times outside his comfort zone, his unforced errors began to pile up, started getting more frustrated and agitated, you have to remember it's almost 2 years since he was beaten in a slam, so it's unfamiliar to him to be in this position. Over the last few years outside of Nadal at the FO he really hasn't had a proper challenger.

Also if you look back to 2019, Federer played him off the court (look at the stats on that game, hard to believe Federer lost), but, Federer choked on the big moments, probably realising it was one of his last opportunities to win Wimbledon and it got to him. Alcaraz with the benefit of youth probably didn't realise the significance of what he was doing and knowing he has lots of opportunities to win it again, most without Djokovic around, so wasn't under huge pressure, he had already done himself justice by getting into a winning position.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863152#Comment_120863152

I think he needed to find that burning motivation and desire to win. As I mentioned earlier, his goal for so long has been to beat Nadal and Federer to most grand slam titles and when he did that in France that was a huge part of his motivation gone. I get the sense he needs someone to direct all his energy and focus towards to get the absolute best out his abilities.

Alcaraz will now be that target, makes for a fascinating year ahead hopefully.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863187#Comment_120863187

I agree, he definitely underestimated him. I don't think he ever really thought he was going to lose until Alcaraz got that return over close to the net when he was serving for the match.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863260#Comment_120863260

I predict Djokovic will just get nastier, not better; we’ll see a lot more sulks and protests on court and delayed play . I’d prefer him to retire now than to put us through all that bullsh1t - his legacy won’t thank him for it either in terms of how he’s seen

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863389#Comment_120863389

Personally I'd rather see all that and a match that goes to 5 sets instead of Alcarez winning everything comfortbaly in three or four sets.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863496#Comment_120863496

This might be a turn of the tide moment though.

Djokovic has been toppled for the first time in 10 years. Djokovic had the mental and physical game, a lot of the players have the physical game but were losing on the mental side as Djokovic was seen as unbeatable (in Wimbledon) . Now they may start to up their game.

I think Chris Eubanks is definitely one to watch for next year.

I think Alcaraz has a great career ahead of him but I wouldn't be thinking he's going to win each year for the next 10/15 years.

It would be nice to get a different champion every year or second year....keep us guessing.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863556#Comment_120863556

Im not sure if many players had the physical game though. Since the Federer final in 2019 the only person who i think should have beaten Novak in Wimbledon was Sinner last year. Hurcaz had potential this year but it also required him having a flawless service game for the whole match, which is a massive ask.

It certainly impossible to say if he will win for the next 10 to 15 years but certainly over the next five years it's easier to predict. At this stage Novak is his only really competition and he's on the way out. I agree, it would be great to not be able to predict so easily who will win it and have some competitive matches. At one stage we had Novak, Murray, Nadal, Federer, Del Proto and Warwinka all capable of beating each other on the various difference services outside of clay.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863799#Comment_120863799

The 1990s was the most boring decade for tennis over the last 50 years- I do hope we’re not entering another similar era.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120860784#Comment_120860784

Not the biggest of tennis fans but was Djokovic not regarded as somewhat of a ‘banker’ and really doesn’t appeal to the masses in same way as nadal and ‘fed-ex’ did….incidents like his covid vaccine stance in 2021 in oz and also the numerous ‘bag attacks’ with racket/ground attacked with racket etc….

Swaine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864974#Comment_120864974

A stance with Covid which was proved he was correct? He was dead right. Sorry he wasn't a sheep.

Yes, he got fined 8,000 for smashing his racket on Sunday. Hardly a big deal is it? He didn't kill anyone.

Nadal and Federer were excellent but just a bit boring personality wise, Djokovic is a bit more honest and emotional (on court). Hardly worth hating him for.

Finally, no he wasn't a banker, not in my eyes anyway, he's 37, Alcaraz 20 and playing the tennis of his life so not a shock at all.