Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752248#Comment_120752248

I'm not sure there will be much follow up on this. It's a private unregulated enterprise.

Unlike if a commercial aircraft goes down.

There is no need for an investigation to establish the causes and reduce the chance if it happening again.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120751317#Comment_120751317

I don't agree.

The Polar Prince is owned by Horizon Maritime, a Canadian company. The vessel that operated the ROV that found the debris is the Horizon Arctic, which is also owned by Horizon Maritime, and it arrived on scene within the reserve oxygen time frame. One could argue that since Horizon Maritime didn't own a suitable ROV themselves, that they were a bit negligent, but it doesn't look like anyone familiar with operating submersibles at those depths thought that anything going wrong at such depths would be survivable, making having an ROV to hand a bit moot.

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752261#Comment_120752261

5 people including 2 billionaires dead and you don't think there will be an investigation?

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752361#Comment_120752361

Who will conduct the investigation?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120751117#Comment_120751117

I’d say in the coming days/weeks/months they’ll (or someone else who might have been listening) release whatever they heard during the moment of implosion…

As expected…

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/0623/1390706-titanic/

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743802#Comment_120743802

But thats exactly what you've done. Take a long hard look at yourself.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752077#Comment_120752077

I don't think it's clickbait. Even the video is amazing in speed and energy - imagine the same thing 300 times stronger. That point is clearly made in the tweet

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120751920#Comment_120751920

Yeah, I’d say he’s credible…

While being a Hollywood movie director, James Cameron is also one of the worlds leading figures in deep sea exploration, having helped design & build the Deepsea Challenger submersible to visit Challenger Deep in The Mariana Trench (the deepest part of Earths ocean at 11km (Titanic is only 3.8km deep), he was only the 3rd person in history to reach Challenger Deep and the 1st to do it solo…. And he’s probably dived to Titanic more than most others…

it was his fascination with Titanic which lead him to making the movie…

So yeah, in terms of credible people to listen to on the subject of deep sea diving, they probably don’t get much more credible than James Cameron.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752330#Comment_120752330

One could argue that since Horizon Maritime didn't own a suitable ROV themselves, that they were a bit negligent

but they do own an ROV, it was just on another ship…

I don’t see how they would or could be found negligible in any of this…

They are just a company that will have received a job/contract from Oceangate to bring them out over the Titanic wreck, launch the raft which contains the submersible, act as communications & guidance centre and then retrieve the raft once the submersible returned to the surface and mounted the raft again…

Now if their contract stated that they must have an ROV on standby to affect a search & rescue mission if anything goes wrong, then yes they are negligible, but I would be pretty confident that no such requirement was contractually in place.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120751752#Comment_120751752

I think that is just a wokism for the public.

It translates more like: We avoided involving experts as the liklihood is that they would have raised issues related to safety that would probably have significantly delayed the project and increased costs beyond the profitability threshold. And they would have refused to be intimidated by anyone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752377#Comment_120752377

There’s many interested parties here, not least the surviving relatives who will probably spend the remainder of their lives dedicated to seeing to and funding an investigation. Other deep sea diving entities will throw in their expertise with a view to upholding and improving standards in the small burgeoning industry. It was pointed out that heretofore the actual safety record has been good, and this has been a retrograde development in deep sea exploration.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752138#Comment_120752138

Yeah, I don't know personally how Cameron could know or think that they were on the way up after experiencing a hull warning. We'll have to wait and see. Maybe it'll turn out he was wrong or just guessing. But those are the only two ways I can think of.

jonnreeks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752361#Comment_120752361

It's amazing the rescue response by countries to this submersible incident some 378 nautical miles, 435 miles (700km) south of St John's, Newfoundland and a few weeks earlier there was no response 47 nautical miles, 54 miles (87km) southwest of the small coastal town of Pylos, Greece and the deaths of hundreds of refugees off that coast!

I can't for the life of me see what was the main difference........................!

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752561#Comment_120752561

The world of deep sea diving is a very small community, and I'd say theres a very good chance Cameron would know some of the folk that were on the support ship, or in some way connected to the project... and information was being spread rapidly throughout this small community..... people are connected, and information spreads quickly...

The guy on Sky News yesterday (from the Explorers club, who was friends with 2 of the crew) was receiving text messages live on air with information that was previously not known publicly, like when the U.S. Coast Guard announced a 'Debris Field' was found, within a few minutes the guy on Sky was correctly saying it was the tail cone & landing leg frame that had been found (and he was literally reading it from his phone). The ROV which found the debris is from a commercial operator, probably with hundreds of crew on board, so it would be very hard for the U.S. Coastguard to keep a lid on information getting out from the scene.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752113#Comment_120752113

Or just ignore/scroll right on by .... ? 🤔

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752106#Comment_120752106

Should we be avoiding airlines operating boeings at this stage?

I have where I can since the crashes but obviously ryanair has such monopoly it's hard to avoid 100% of the time.

Or am I being irrational?

Amirani

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752596#Comment_120752596

Given 104 people were rescued from the ship that sank in Greece, I'm not sure how you can say there was no response.

But of course you're just making stuff up to suit your narrative.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752553#Comment_120752553

Thanks for speaking on behalf of their families.

Have they told you they will be spending the rest of their lives investigating this, or is it something you just made up?

They knowingly engaged in a high risk activity which was likely to go wrong, and did.

There's nothing to investigate here.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752330#Comment_120752330

OK, let me rephrase my original comment. I should have said, I find it ridiculous that OceanGate did not have their own ROV. I didn't mean the onus was on the Polar Prince to have one, I meant the company organising the expedition should have brought one.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752533#Comment_120752533

Every trial potentially weakens the hull. How do you know your trial wont have put it in a position where its fine this time, but just enough weakening so that it will fail next time.

The gold standard test is expensive xrays of the hull, done regularly between dives to examine the physical integrity of the hull in a non-invasive manner.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752596#Comment_120752596

If there were hundreds of refugees in a submarine that went missing, they'd get the same rescue response as the Titan. The possibility of finding a lost vehicle and saving all on board before it's too late isn't really comparable to a ship sinking.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752806#Comment_120752806

It only makes sense to have a backup submersible when they have been properly certified.

In this case, where they was a possibility of a hull failure in Titan I, would you have gone aboard an identically designed Titan II to investigate?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752932#Comment_120752932

One doesn’t board a ROV, it’s a remotely operated vehicle intended to investigate. Indeed more depth-worthy than Titan.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752837#Comment_120752837

Every trial potentially weakens the hull. How do you know your trial wont have put it in a position where its fine this time, but just enough weakening so that it will fail next time.

This is I'd say is exactly what happened. Thy performed dive after dive, and each dive will have weakened the structural integrity of the pressure capsule.. For me I'd guess it was the bond between the carbon fibre tube and the titanium flange where the spherical cap was bolted to was the point that failed.

The gold standard test is expensive xrays of the hull, done regularly between dives to examine the physical integrity of the hull in a non-invasive manner.

And it looks like this is where corners were cut, and justified/explained away with reference to the sensors that were installed to measure any stresses on the tube... (a completely untried and untested way of measuring stresses on a pressure capsule...)

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752951#Comment_120752951

Ah sorry, I thought you were suggesting redundant/backup submersibles along the same principle as MIR.

Montage of Feck

Shouldn't we be living in undersea colonies by now, Seaquest DSV was set in 2018 leaving childhood me disappointed. Instead we are taking about a carbon fiber tub, an already descredited application for such technology.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752806#Comment_120752806

What difference would that have made?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752553#Comment_120752553

Safety record good? That's a bit like saying on 24 July 2000 that Concorde is the safest airliner in the world because it's never crashed. Then it overnight became the "most dangerous". But both statements were nonsense really because the sample size was so small - only a handful in active service. With this yoke it's far worse. No inferences can be drawn as to safety from a few missions completing successfully and it appears there was no external oversight at all.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752596#Comment_120752596

How would deep sea ROVs etc etc have helped there? 🙄

Anyone who hadn't already been rescued was dead long before assistance from far away countries could have arrived.

If my house is on fire in Dublin there's no point asking the Kerry fire brigade to call out.

AndyBoBandy

Suleman Dawood wasn't too excited about going on the trip, but only went to please his dad as it was over the Father's Day weekend;

https://www.joe.ie/news/teenager-titan-sub-trip-776416