Road accidents, young tractor drivers and driver licencing

Dakota Dan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058298622/road-accidents-young-tractor-drivers-and-driver-licencing

Meanwhile you have Americans putting up videos of their children on tic tok operating or trying to operate farm machinery and excavators from the age of 4 up to 6, seems to be a competition for them. Is it any wonder they have 100 children a year dying in farm accidents and 27k injured.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668180#Comment_120668180

Is it any wonder they have 100 children a year dying in farm accidents and 27k injured.

I'd imagine that's on a par with Irish figures per head when population adjusted

Dakota Dan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668203#Comment_120668203

21 in the last 10 years but that wasn’t the point I was making.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668237#Comment_120668237

Similar figures so.

Apologies if I misunderstood your point

Dakota Dan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668246#Comment_120668246

There’s 135k farms in Ireland and 2m in the US which is 14 times greater than Ireland so to put an estimate on it the equivalent in Ireland is 14x 2-1= 29.4 so 29 v 100 deaths is a big difference.

Nekarsulm

Went on a "tractor run" for the first and only time in my life, back in 2021.

Was for a charity supporting children with cancer, organised by a father I know.

First and last time.

About 100 tractors took part, I had the Fiat 90-90.

I wasn't the slowest yoke, but I was damn close!

The bollocking that went on was horrendous.

Onto a local bypass, and every lad with a 40 or 50k box was passing the rest of us, at one instance there were three tractors abreast....

One particular memory was the nutter in a NHpassing me with both his "dealer boot" shod feet out the cab door, as he held the hand trottle wide open.

There were several other examples that had me well rattled.

Never again.

Packrat

Something a bit like a CPC that we HGV & BUS drivers do or like a site ticket might be in order for road driving.

Some of the accidents you see on those are stomach churning and would put you thinking about the weight etc.

I know, - we all hate doing them,

BUT,

The fact that there ISN'T a test at the end of the day sometimes leads to good straight frank discussions on aspects of driving which a good instructor willl let run on, and everybody actually learns something.

SouthWesterly

I'm a dub living in the countryside. I've a tractor licence since I first got my test way back

I never figured out the mentality that I could legally get up on one of my neighbours machines and drive it on a road having never learnt to do so.

Used to work in transport. Some of these machines are as big and bigger than a large truck cab yet I can't drive a truck without a test.

mr.stonewall

Looking back over this thread, what I see the possible actions that are needed to deal with this situation

1. Driver training. while you can pick up a learner permit with just the theory test, it could be looked at to have 6 practical safety sessions having to be completed before even being allowed apply for a W learner permit
2. Limit speed and weight of Vehicles being driven by someone on a W learner permit to 30Kmh and 8ton gross load.
3. Move the age to 17 or 18 for application of W learner permit
4. Could some of the High speed 50Kmh training be tied in to green cert training to allow
5. No passengers if you are on a learner permit. Look at the Motorbikes. On a Learner you are not allowed a pillion passenger
6. Finally the Crux. Remove the automatic entitlement of full W licence when you get a B licence. Maybe you can get the W licence when you complete the BE test ( trailer) or truck licence

Look back at hurling over past 20 years, helmets are now compulsory, How did this happen, it started with making it standard in juvenile age groups and working it up over a few years.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669084#Comment_120669084

The current ages is worse, it is 16 you can get a W licence. Crazy

On having some 50km/hr tractor driving training in the Greencert. Well, yes it might be useful but only to a small minority of the people involved in farming. Generally, it would be only The Farmer, ie, the business owner who would need to have the greencert, and the only reason to have it is to be eligible for grants, tax breaks etc. The vast majority of people working on famrs would not have a greencert or need to have one. Farm workers, contractors and their teeny bopper drivers would not have a greencert qualification - they don't have any need for it.

Indeed, quite often the farmer, ie the qualification holder, would have minimal enough involvement in the physical machinery type work. Especially on bigger farms. They are more in the zone of running the business, and you have workers and contractors doing the bulk of the donkey work on tractors and the like.

Now one benefit might be that the farmer, ie the boss man, might gain an insight in to the dangers of these machines when in unskilled hands, and maybe get an appreciation for the sheer destruction and death they can inflict in an accident, and so be more cautious about who they hire to drive, or what sort of fellas their contractors have. But I wouldn't hold much hope there. Greencert is largely in one ear and out the other and forgotten about, as fellas just doing it because they have to. I should know, I am doing it presently. The gist of the whole thing is what is the minimum we have to do to get a pass - there is very little actual interest in it among the class. I can see that it is very frustrating for the instructors who I can see feel that they are more or less talking to the wall.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662817#Comment_120662817

It's long walk on rural road where young lads are flying around in tractors.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669153#Comment_120669153

The above is no licence no road work. To improve we have ad layers to the steps of progression to get even a learner permit. If there is issues with the licence the insurance in a incident is null and void. This puts the responsibility on the owner of the vehicle and also the driver. Very few run the risk of having no insurance. The green cert proposal is an option that would be similar to the spraying course that have to be completed. They tie in over the period. If you don't want to do the green cert , you can still do a sprayer course.

The kernal of the issue is how to move the W learner permit to 18 and limit speed and loads while on the learner permit. Doing that and adding a requirement for CPC while on the learner permit is huge benefit

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665002#Comment_120665002

HSA disavowed the comments of that particular inspector telling cyclists to stay off the road.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668096#Comment_120668096

The private company tenders for the business to the RSA periodically. They don't choose the content of the questions, that's down to the RSA. If you reckon it's a money making venture, jump in on the next tender yourself and you'll be on the pigs back.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665227#Comment_120665227

The fact that they're avoidable is a good reason to stop calling them 'accidents'. They're crashes or collisions. Gardai, RSA and others moved away from accident terminology 20-30 years ago, for good reasons. It's designed to let drivers off the hook for their bad choices.

magicbastarder

the HSA may have disavowed it, but it was damaging and possibly telling of a mindset still in there. that wasn't a slip of the tongue.

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669332#Comment_120669332

Have you sat a theory test? 50 questions including the most obscure. A fail rate of close to 50% including retests. Most seasoned accident free mature drivers would fail without attempting to memorise their book. It’s not fit for purpose and achieves nothing .

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120670865#Comment_120670865

I've coached two people through the theory test in the last two years. You're absolutely right to say most mature drivers would fail, though that says more about the casual attitude to operating lethal machinery by most mature drivers than it does about the test.

A lot of it is indeed a memory test, and some of it is fairly random, looking for statistics quoted in a random report 'Post Crash Report' iirc (which I could never manage to find). It is far from perfect, but it absolutely does require new drivers to have a decent grounding in the rules of the road.

The content of the test has nothing to do with the contractor that administers it. The content is down to the RSA.

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120670883#Comment_120670883

I am a very mature driver, I just did a sample theory test and scored 37/40. The three I got wrong were the amount of a fine for allowing a learner driver to drive my car, the fact that I should completely turn off the engine in a congested tunnel and the number to get emergency services in the event of an accident - though it did concede that in Ireland you can call 999, so it was a bit of a pointless 'wrong'.

whelan2

I've a 15 year old lad here, not a hope in hell would I let him drive a tractor wether in the yard , a big field or on the road. I've 2 who've done the theory test , daughter passed first go and other lad got it on 3rd attempt

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120671124#Comment_120671124

Most youngsters are flying through the online examples, and yet the repeat rate is very high.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/state-s-driver-theory-test-operator-paid-dividend-in-year-it-got-covid-subsidies-1.4756448

I wonder how prometric are so “in”.

a compulsory test with huge waiting list,a non negotiable fee,and a huge fail rate.

Jjameson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120671261#Comment_120671261

What do you suppose the theory test would do for him? I’d rather let my 13 year old nephew operate the tractor here than my brother. I show him the dangers. And keep an eye to him.

whelan2

A good few of the questions could have 2 possible answers. I've done it myself and failed.

magicbastarder

god forbid people expected to be granted a licence to drive a vehicle weighing a ton or two, would need to be able to pass a test of their mental capacity. political correctness gone mad!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120671124#Comment_120671124

It should be mandatory for all drivers to resit at least the theory test every five years. A once in a lifetime qualification for such lethal equipment is crazy.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120672308#Comment_120672308

We can barely get through the queue of learners permit holders at the moment. Can you imagine the mayhem this would cause (although I 100% agree with bringing it in)?

cj maxx

Tbh I haven't read the whole thread but as you could see I've posted before about a youg buck in a big tractor who nearly took me an my children out of it while on the phone. And working for a contractor. I dread silage time. With 50K boxes it should be a artiic licence they need

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120672308#Comment_120672308

Absolutely agree, and while I can only get a 3 year or 1 year licence now, subject to a GP's opinion, a bit of a test wouldn't go amiss for some of the aul wans/fellas round here. In fairness the main problem is them driving very slowly (generally for quite short distances) which can lead to issues with people who are impatient and rushing about, so its kind of 50/50 how much of a liability they are.

YellowLead

It’s a sense of tradition and it’s a pride thing too. The attitude that ‘sure we all did it and we are fine’ and they want their sons/daughters to have the same experience. Beaming with pride telling the neighbours that Johnny or Mary was up on the tractor with x load, not a bother.

Not all farms are the same and some people have moved with the times - but there’s a still a huge disregard for safety, when it comes to children in particular - because adhering to traditions and pride matter more. From a farming background myself.

Never got to drive the tractor personally because eldest sibling crashed it into a tree (she was fine it was a slow crash so only the exterior of the tractor was damaged) and therefore none of us were to be trusted. Out of concern for the expensive tractor and not us :)

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120672366#Comment_120672366

Current backlog for theory test in Dublin is less than three weeks.

It would certainly need ramping up, with considerable resources, but would pay for itself in a couple of years.

yrreg0850

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669157#Comment_120669157

That is the problem. There should be a change in the law.

whelan2

Was just thinking there. We have l and n plates for in experienced drivers, how about an E plate for elderly drivers. My dad is nearly 80 and his driving is shocking