Road accidents, young tractor drivers and driver licencing

tinofapples

Agree but picture the scene when the contractors can't get people to drive their machines, that's probably why it hasn't changed

CreadanLady

Well that is also an issue. No mature, experienced driver who has made plant and machinery their career is going to want to work on agri. There is more money, less hours, and a more formal employment structure to be had with the building and civil engineering sector. Plus all your training provided or paid for. An agri contractor wouldn't be able to compete with that unless they seriously jacked up rates to the farmer, who will probably not want to pay that kind of money, won't have it because the meat factories won't give them enough for their product etc,

Fixing a safety problem lands you into an labour problem and fixing the labour problem lands you into an economic problem.

whelan2

Look at electric scooters. Kids out on them on roads with zero road sense and no helmet. Parents probably haven't a clue where they are. BTW I assume when we mention lads this covers boys and girls.

CreadanLady

Well not really. Because it is overwhelmingly lads, ie young males, who are the ones engaging in this sort of dangerous and reckless tractor driving behaviour. I'm not saying girls do not do it, but lookit, search for news articles about fatal tractor accidents on the roads and it'll be overwhelmingly be males, and a very large portion of the drivers will be on the younger side.

So a) there are relatively few female tractor drivers, and b) female's tend not to engage in the sort of reckless risk taking that males tend to do. All things considered, I would say that women tractor drivers are not an issue in the same way that young men are.

Now of course, both genders are equally succeptible to accidents arising out of lack of experience, lack of training, and young age meaning they have not developed the full cognitive abilities to assess day to day risks. But ver definitely, young males are notorious for plainly reckless behaviour in a way that girls, in general, do not seem to do.

So I will stand behind my sexism on this point. Yes. I am laying blame here largely at the door of young inexperienced, immature males.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663029#Comment_120663029

On the scooter thing, yes true. But someone going mad on a scooter generally will only get themselves killed. The aren't at risk of completely wiping out ,crushing and killing multiple other road users in a matter seconds in the same way as an out of control heavy tractor and trailer.

NIMAN

Some very tragic stories of late.

I live in a rural area and would often question the age of young lads I see driving tractors?

I would say they are rarely stopped by the Guards either.

But whilst it is acceptable to the families, these accidents will continue to happen. I would say these youngsters aren't stealing the tractor and joyriding them, they are in them with permission. And when accidents do occur, I would guess that the parents find it hard to live with themselves.

There should be noone in charge of a vehicle on a road under 18, IMHO.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663177#Comment_120663177

Most of the time they are driving with permission but not always - I have heard of young lads taking tractors out for a spin while parents are out, away etc. Teen lads think they are well capable of driving tractors when they are not - they see no danger whatsoever. Its all about showing off at that age. There was an inquest today reported in the news of a 12yr old who died in an accident after going for a drive in his mothers car. He took the car while she was asleep obviously without permission.

I remember my husband saying when he was in secondary school in the 90s ( small rural town) it was normal for lads to drive tractors to school - ( no Im not joking). He said there could be 5 tractors or more parked in the school carpark every day! I dont know if this is still a thing but I wouldnt be surprised if it is.

K.G.

The thing is most of the work is now being done by 16/17 year old.the popular opinion seems to be that driving tractors is for fools and young lads and doesn't pay any farmer to do their own work.so anyone who uses a contractor is the first step in the problem as often the only fellas that will go at this work under these conditions are young lads.its grand to say they should use older people but !ho wants to under the conditions-long hours, poor rates, intermittent work and demanding customers alot of whom now have never done the jobs themselves so have no clue what's involved. It's like drug dealers-if there was no demand for coke there d be no drug dealers

whelan2

Daughter got her driving licence last year when she turned 18. Covid delayed things. The best thing that happened her was she crashed her car, before that she thought she was invincible in the car. Now she was very lucky, no one else involved and she made **** of the car but she's a much better driver now because of it.

selectamatic

I disagree about most contractors using 16/17 year olds. I'm in the northwest and nearly every local contractor from the rough and ready operators to the top of the range boyos have lads that are in the 18-23 range or even a touch older.

People see a "young fella" and just instantly think 16 year old.

Invariably the 16 year olds around here are cutting about in their Aul fellas or their grandfather's tractor. Off doing road runs or meeting up in town. But full time contractor work not so much.

To bring in a test of the c/c1/cpc type with I'm guessing similar costs for tractors would be a hard task to do without creating a labour shortage of near crisis proportions throughout a the agri and road/building sectors.

It'd need to be heavily subsidised or not enough would be able to afford it and those that could would be mad to go driving tractors for pennies compared to artics.

Interestingly the EU were looking into the merits of lowering the car age to 16 recently enough.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663875#Comment_120663875

An expensive but valuable life lesson…

looksee

I did much the same, passed my test (first go) bought a car, turned it over several times quite spectacularly within a week (there were some slightly mitigating circumstances, but mostly me), been driving over 50 years now without another accident. (touch wood).

magicbastarder

Several times within a week? Were you stock car racing?

Kimbot

Does insurance in a tractor cover the carrying of passengers?

I see plenty of tractors around my way and there are 3/4 people in the cab flying around the roads.

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664838#Comment_120664838

😁 ok, syntax crisis!

bigroad

What has the RSA to say about this .All I hear on the TV/Radio it an add telling everyone else to be careful of tractors on the road.

Their a complete joke of an organisation.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664873#Comment_120664873

Ah, i get you now!

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664841#Comment_120664841

I doubt it

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664875#Comment_120664875

HSA told the rest of us to stay off the road during silage cutting

https://www.independent.ie/farming/machinery/cyclists-and-pedestrians-should-stay-off-the-road-when-silage-harvesting-is-underway-hsa-senior-advisor/a538168024.html

Another here who agrees that tractor (W) licence should at least be limited to those with the car (B) test passed.

As teens we went from growing up driving small fords and masseys to likes of JD 3650s to draw grain. They were relatively big but with narrow wheels and standard boxes, maxing out at say 20 mph.

Nothing in the 90s that we drove had 40k boxes and it wasn't until 02 or 03 we even saw 50k boxes.

There were still plenty of issues with young drivers back then, particularly those who didn't grow up on tractors. 2 lads put tractors on their roofs and another couldn't stop at a junction and ended with a car under the trailer. None of those lads were experienced enough to be doing what they were doing.

To me the faster speeds have been a game changer and should come with better driving standards.

The larger machines and wider tyres are also an issues but 50k with a trailer is shifting, particularly on small roads.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665002#Comment_120665002

I'd have to say I think you've hit the nail on the head there it's the improvement in tractor speeds cab comfort and overall size and power output has really changed the skillset needed to drive these yoke on the roads.....I see here at home the younger lads are not capable of managing the 50 k box's safely

tayto lover

These accidents are tragic but avoidable if people in authority take proper care. Young lads simply should not be on the public road driving a tractor.

On another note I was driving from Carlingford to Dundalk last Sunday and came on a 'Tractor Run' which had about 80 tractors in convoy on the main road holding up all the traffic that simply couldn't get past on long stretches of the road. I was in no hurry but i'd pity anyone who was trying to get to the airport to catch a flight or an ambulance that was trying to get to an emergency. This 'Tractor Run' was probably being done to raise money for a charity but in this day and age I feel that blocking main roads for a considerable period of time is not the way to go trying to raise money. Not a steward or Garda in sight either.

roosterman71

There's a lot of sense written in his thread.

• A lot of contractor machines are leased in and therefore the same "care" isn't given to them as if they were owned
• Having the ability to turn 16 and then be allowed operate agri machines in all their configuration on public roads is total madness in this day and age. The laws need to be updated to keep pace with the change and modernisation of equipment
• Getting young lads in to drive keeps costs down. Very few mature lads are willing to work every hour of the day for a week and then twiddle their thumbs. That sort of employment is not suitable for more mature people with responssibilities, but is ideal for young lads. I asked a local lad for a few hours driving in the evenings and the pay was €12 an hour. That isn't the pay to encourage anyone to do the job.
• There should be staged licencing requirements based on age. Ideally it would be done on experience but that would be impossible to police
• The young drivers in the outfits around me are often lads from the local town out to do something for he summer. Not a huge amount of farmers sons on the job.

The local big contrator to me mainly has tractors that max out at 40km/h. He has some faster ones that only lads who are full time employed with him get to drive. Last week he was flat out going all day and night getting silage in. On Sunday they were drawing up past our house. Ya'd nearly know the age profile of the driver based on the sound of the tractor coming in the distance. The more experienced lads would be slowing down for turns and bumps whereas the younger lads were flat out the whole time, even up to the junction at the main road where ya'd here the brakes screeching trying to stop. One part of the rroad narrows where a footpath starts past our place and myself and the father were coming down in int he car and a young lad coming flying up. Instead of slowing before the road narrows to allow us all pass he pulled out past the footpath to take over the road. I could see my fathers grips tighten on the wheel as he seen an opportunity to deliver a valuable lesson to the chap! We stopped, the tractor stopped and we got a gesture to back up. That didn't go down well. Out the father popped and over to the door which he opened and read the riot act to the poor chap and his female passenger who was recording it. Long story short, the tractor was told to back up and to be a more courteous operator. Which, he did but was fuming. Each time after a car was coming down the road we could see him slowing up. Good lad.

DownByTheGarden

About 10 years ago the 13 year old son of a local farmer was driving the tractor in the opposite direction to me. I had passed him lots of times in it. He was bombing along. There was a cyclist in front of a queue cars and I was cycling at the back of the queue.

Along comes yer man in the tractor. Scratched the sides of 6 cars and kept going. All the drivers got out scratching their heads. I continued on my way but i assume the guards were called there was so much damage.

The following day I passed him again driving the tractor and many more times after that while I lived there.

magicbastarder

interestingly, i cycle a lot around rural roads in north county dublin, and the vast majority of tractor drivers seem like good skins. but the one time i had a 'whoah, ****' moment, it was a chap who looked maybe 16 driving a tractor pulling a trailer of bales. and he was deliberate in what he did.

Mooooo

Sometimes they just need to be told. Couple years back a young lad would be driving past the house lifting, parents and other neighbours would be walking occasionally on the road, one in a wheelchair. Next time he came by I walked out in front of him and told him sternly to slow down, and the consequences of **** going wrong. There was no malice in the lad but he never drove past at that speed again, his mother even thanked me for saying it to him. Didn't need to fcuk and blind just be straight up with em. This was in a car not a tractor but same principles

K.G.

One thing I will say there has been a huge improvement in the quality of brakes and lighting in recent years.back in the day they were considered luxury s

CreadanLady

Quality brakes and lights not much use if there is in inexperienced child at the wheel.

JP Liz V1

I agree tractor licence age increase to 18

Also one on a tractor, I passed a few with 2, 3 and 4 on them some adults with kids

looksee

I can't think I have ever seen more than one in a cab, especially drawing silage. You might get more than one on one of those tractor runs.

Jjameson

Examinations and bureaucracy are always seen as the bastions of curing every problem, papers don’t make experience, patience, and an attitude of steady work attitude. Cultural change is required.

the theory test is a monopolised money printing machine for a private company. The questions require memory tests on pictures, road accident statistics obscure seldom/never seen road signs. It’s not about educating learner drivers or testing produce in a practical sense, it’s a money making venture.