CHC Contract for Search and Rescue gone to Bristow

Storm 10

Wonder will this effect any of the current bases and Crews

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/f9647-government-announces-preferred-tenderer-for-the-provision-of-the-new-irish-coast-guard-search-and-rescue-aviation-contract/

AnRothar

From the linked article.

The contract will provide for the day and night-time operation of four helicopter bases in Sligo, Shannon, Waterford and Dublin.

So I suspect no major changes.

donkey balls

I'm sure the staff be just TUPE over happens a lot in the transport industry,Not as if they would have replacement crews ready to replace the current crews.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659514#Comment_120659514

It may not be quite a simple as that. Presumably at least some of the senior personnel will be recruited by Bristow for the Irish operation. They wouldn't necessarily have an identical management/operational structure anyway.

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659045#Comment_120659045

Ive seen a post saying all 92's to be replaced by AW189, short sighted if true.

AnRothar

interesting.

Prefer not to go into top trumps area but how would real world performance compare.

Storm 10

The AW189 would be useless on the West Coast given all the long range missions they do with the S92, they regularly go out over 200km to Ships and Trawlers in all types of weather, also its cabin is very small compared to the S92 I was in one and its like a mini hospital with all the equipment they have they are able to carry out minor procedures on a patient to stabilize them on the way to hospital.

donkey balls

Wonder what the difference is in operating the different airframes cost wise?

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660824#Comment_120660824

Bristows (who operate both types) have key specs on their website. https://www.bristowgroup.com/fleet/heavy-twins

I'm not an expert but, on the face of it, there is little difference in range between the two types. I don't know whether in real-world terms they are really as closely matched as the data suggests.

HTCOne

If I recall correctly, helipads at some of the hospitals are unable to accommodate the weight of the S92? I wonder if the AW189 can be handled by those affected?

ectoraige

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663909#Comment_120663909

The AW189 is just a bit larger than the AW139s used by the Air corps for EAS so it won't be as demanding on infrastructure as the S92s.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660824#Comment_120660824

Wouldn’t the capability requirements have been specified in the tender so I assume that the AW189 was able to meet them, perhaps the S92 just exceeded the requirements more.

ectoraige

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120660824#Comment_120660824

AW189s are used for SAR in many locations, although they are smaller airframes, their range and performance are pretty similar. They will be the smallest helis operated by the coast guard though, the S92s were at least double the size of the old S62s, now they will be at least half the size again. There still plenty of space for patient care, but it might start getting cramped if they needed to lift a large number of crew off a ship in distress.

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663909#Comment_120663909

S92 can land at any pad except Waterford & Tallaght AFAIK. S92 on the daily is into UH Letterkenny/Sligo/Galway/Limerick/Tralee & other pads such as Castletownbere & Blacksod. In fact, Waterford never got expanded beyond the size it remains now from the days of the Alouette.

EI321

CHC taking it to court.

https://www.flightglobal.com/helicopters/chc-helicopter-launches-court-fight-against-irish-sar-loss/153704.article

EchoIndia

No great surprise there, given the value of the contract.

Iwastimthe

https://www.wlrfm.com/news/appeal-court-clears-the-way-for-new-e800m-air-sea-rescue-contract-317770

Looks like its gone the way of Bristow.

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120908519#Comment_120908519

Very hard to swallow I can imagine, majority of CHC are EX IAC/HSE, hows it going to work if they move on? Youll be looking at all new possibly majority British AW189 Crews? I know a huge amount of the SAR lads here are on 1st name terms with their passsengers & have intimate knowledge of Irish waters/beaches/Cliffs etc, going to be very difficult with new heads if they have to go through that process from the start & awkward I can imagine.

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923483#Comment_120923483

TUPE.

They will not bring in new crews.

What is most likely to happen is that when Bristow take over is as follows.

A 5th team will be created.

1 AW189 will arrive in Shannon.

The entire team from one base (say Sligo)will rotate to Shannon to train on the new machine.

While they are off site the 5th team will cover the base (in Sligo).

Once they have achieved operational readiness they will return home bringing the AW189 with them.

The 5th team will move to the next base.

Another AW189 will arrive in Shannon.

Rinse and repeat until all bases have been converted to the new machine.

Psychlops

Some sober reading… It seems the AW189 & the Operator doesn’t have the legs for SAR even in the Netherlands!! https://pledgetimes.com/rescue-with-helicopters-took-a-long-time-from-den-helder-via-rotterdam-to-the-cargo-ship-above-ameland/

donkey balls

https://extra.ie/2023/08/07/news/irish-news/concerns-rescue-helicopters

looks like the Irish media is picking up on the Dutch story.

As for the current employees (Medics) If they were to be replaced by UK medics they would have to have their skills and qualifications assessed by PHECC..

Psychlops

Going for the same result with anything less than an S92 is deluded.

prunudo

A bit unfair to be blaming the operater, if what they supply meets the tender documnets then the issue lies with the Department of transport for issuing below par requirements.

EchoIndia

The Mail on Sunday is a pretty authoritative source on aviation matters, of course.

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950074#Comment_120950074

Of course 🤣

Irish Steve

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950074#Comment_120950074

About as authoratative as Eamon Ryan

andrewfaulk

I wonder is part of it a dirty tricks campaign by CHC to try and discredit Bristow in the media..

There isn’t a whole load of difference in capacity between the S-92 and the AW189 in real world terms.. The S92 will take two extra bodies in the cockpit and has 15km further range, but how many SAR ops involve over 15 casualties anyway

Oscar Bravo

Any word on the fixed wing type? Living here in Castlebar the S 92 is a regular into the hospital from the likes of Achill or the Islands off Mayo. Its very rare the S 92 ventures very far off coast so i guess the AW189 will slot in fine. In an ideal world id have an S92 based at Shannon and Sligo and the AW189 at Dublin and Waterford.

Oscar Bravo

This machine for top cover would be ideal ,Not the 727 ;)

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963069#Comment_120963069

LOL, say that to Shannon. Long Range is their bread & butter.

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963069#Comment_120963069

The AW189 isnt fine, asking an AW189 to do what an S92 does is deluded. Size matters.

xper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963069#Comment_120963069

In the previous precurement that resulted in the CHC contract, the requirement was for helicopters with the sort of capability of the S92 at all bases. On the west coast, this was required for the range to get out as far as possible to vessels operating in the Atlantic, on the east coast this was required for the capacity with, in particular, the requirement to respond to a passenger vessel emergency in mind. Which is entirely approporiate, you base specs on what are the most demanding but plausible scenarios, not simple bread and butter stuff like air ambulance runs to the islands.

I dont know if, how or why the specified requirements were changed for the new contract. Maybe the AW189 and S92 both met the minimum required but little or no significant scoring was earned by one bid over the other for exceeding the minimum by more (a very common flaw in public sector procurement in my experieince in another field). Whatever the reason, we have clearly opted for lesser capabability now which is regretable.

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963030#Comment_120963030

Did you even read anything of whats being said? Huge differences between AW189 & S92. I was talking to an EX IRCG S92 Pilot, he said "S92 can officially lift 20 casualties (but if situation warranted it could cram more in) & with the reserve fuel tank it had the endurance to give some margin when operating out at 200NM. What is said on paper as capability versus what actually happens when the mission changes, updates." Also was talking to a Crew person on one of the duty S92's "Space inside a helicopter when operating in Ireland is everything especially as we are a combined HEMS & SAR Operation, A full medical team of 3 & associated gear plus a child on an ICU trolley can easily fit & be wheeled up the ramp of the S92, this wont happen with an AW189 where you will be on your knees pulling it across the floor.

5500

Just reading over the press release below and noticed they say Dublin Weston as a base, presuming it's not a typo and they will no longer be based at Dublin airport

https://www.bristowgroup.com/news-media/press-releases/detail/539/bristow-ireland-limited-signs-new-sar-contract-with-irish

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121021428#Comment_121021428

yeah heard about it a few days ago. Interesting choice considering Weston has so many negatives to its use, lights, approaches, operating hours, local residents issues, local council issues, infrastructure etc etc.

Psychlops

Gas & CHC have a new purpose built hanger in Dublin Intl.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121021607#Comment_121021607

I'd be more concerned by this than their choice of aircraft. But again is this an operator shortfall or the minister creating and awarding a sub standard tender.

donkey balls

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3688489248

Looks like they are looking for pilots I wonder if they do operate out of EIWT what would CHC do with the hanger at Dub?

EchoIndia

Hangar at DUB is on DAA lands so I doubt CHC have any hold on it if they don't hold SAR contract. DAA would probably be happy to get it back and repurpose area for other uses in immediate or longer term.

sparrowcar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027910#Comment_121027910

Flatten it for additional temporary parking stands.

L1011

I can almost hear the steam coming out of various Leixlip/Lucan residents ears about there being extensive night time use of Weston

donkey balls

An awful waste of a hanger if it was to be demolished, I take it the DAA own the land on where the hanger is, I wonder why Bristow couldn't use it.

EchoIndia

Why would Bristow want to use a hangar at Dublin if based at Weston?

donkey balls

I just find the whole Weston thing a bit odd, As in why open a base there and as others have said the local residents be up in arms with the noise.

When you have an actual hanger at Dub with all the facilities for heli The last time I was at Weston was 2012 have they built new hangers there since.?

L1011

It'll be less disruptive to ops at DUB, but that isn't the concern of the SAR operator

Sterling Archer

Is it a possibility that they may be using the idea of transfer times from Weston to hospitals as reason also....

Also is the childrens hospital rated for the AWs?

LiamaDelta

Probably using Weston because of hte addition of a fixed-wing craft to the service, so will be easier to operate from there and less disruptive. Also would explain why the CHC hanger might not be of use to them, better to have their own custom set-up.

EchoIndia

The fixed-wing aircraft will be King Air 200s, based at Shannon.

donkey balls

I wonder will they hire current CHC staff for the position below.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3697639541

xper

Switching to Weston seems odd. While operating from Dublin may be costly, who knows, it would want to be some diffrence to justify the investment cost in setting up in Leixlip istead of taking over the recently purpose-built facility at Dublin. Unless CHC are going to hang on to it for some other purpose which seems unlikely.

Weston does have large modern hangar space but I dont know whether its got sufficient capacity above existing users to accommodate the Bristow aircarft. Then there's the need to provide operating offices and crew accommodation. I note there is planning permission granted last year to expand the existing terminal building but that predates the contract award and its just offices and extra cafe space and there is nothing specific mentioned regarding a SAR operation, only National Flight Centre is mentioned as occupants. They do have plenty of room on the property for any additonal facilities to be built but there is no other relvant recent planning application and you would think it would have to be in at this stage.

Speaking of planning, Weston currently operates in daytime only, primarily due to its lack of lighting on the runway and taxiways. But is there also any planning limit on its hours of operation? Given ongoing events at Dublin and the historical conflicts with some neighbours, expanding to 24/7 operations for SAR could get lively.

As to the aviation aspect of operating SAR form this location, its probably economically feasible to construct a lit helipad and floodlight the adjacent ramp in front of the hangars for much less than kitting out the whole runway and taxiways. And while there are no published instrument approach, there is a VOR/DME on the field which puts it in sort of the same bracket as Sligo with its NDB and GPS-based approaches could also be developed. But in the same way that the AW189 is probably good enough to meet the contract requirements but is not as capable as the outgoing S92s, Weston is never going to offer you the capability of Dublin in marginal conditions.

SAR isnt an activity in which cost cutting should take priority.

Anyway, maybe it was just a typo!

Psychlops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047138#Comment_121047138

Well said, this is a wrong move with the AW189, to replace what an S92 does & has done with an AW189 is deluded.