School resignations and recruitment problems, 2023-2024

gaiscioch

So far, it seems about 15% of the established, permanent teachers in my school will not be coming back in September to my Dublin school. The refusal of the school to grant a career break, and promotions to elsewhere in the education system were factors. Additionally, abuse of social media is increasingly an issue in teachers leaving teaching entirely as it's not a safe working environment (specifically, secret recordings made by students in class and posted online). I expect the 15% will increase by September as people currently on career break will have until the end of August to decide if they're coming back.

For the younger teachers, accommodation costs are hemorrhaging the future. They're just leaving Dublin even though in most cases the school would like them to stay. These are teachers who will lose an extra €7,000 or so per annum for extracurricular work that they wouldn't get in most schools, but that's a pittance given the money they'd save on accommodation by moving outside Dublin. I don't think any sort of London-style top-up payment for teachers in Dublin (and I am one) is going to stop this exodus from Dublin schools to cheaper parts of Ireland.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/flood-of-teachers-leaving-for-other-jobs-because-they-simply-cannot-afford-a-home/42430311.html

What's the situation in your school in terms of vacancies and resignations/retirements?

Treppen

We're not hit too bad as there's only 2 leaving due to cost of living.. although I just remembered there were 2 gone abroad a couple of years ago on career break to UAE but there's no sign of them returning yet. I know a primary school in West Dublin who are losing 1/3 of the staff to career break + teachers who were denied career break but leaving anyway. Eldest teacher in the school apart from principal is in their late 20s.

At this stage I think it's just a childcare issue, they'll get some subs of some unqualified description in for crowd control and that'll be Norma's big solution. Feic all will be taught.

Random sample

We are at the other end of this. Most new hires are experienced teachers moving from dublin, rather than young new teachers. This is a new situation for us since covid, it will be interesting to see how the next few years pan out. We will have teachers who have given years to the school competing for posts with experienced teachers who are new to the school.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643817#Comment_120643817

You can see why very little will be done. Dublin's loss is others gain.

Although I doubt parents who gain new teachers coming from Dublin will bat an eyelid. Parents don't seem to worry so much as long as they have somewhere to put the kids during the day time.

Str8outtaWuhan

Can Dublin based teachers on career break get jobs as teachers down the country?

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646811#Comment_120646811

I don't think so...

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646811#Comment_120646811

As casual subs yes, (that has been allowed for the last two years I yhink, but wasn't allowed previously)but not on contracted hours, unless said contracted hours are privately paid.

gaiscioch

Breda O Brien, for all the abuse she gets, is on the money with this morning's Irish Times article: 'Teachers are approaching burnout. Another half-baked educational reform will break them':

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/06/10/teachers-are-approaching-burnout-another-half-baked-educational-reform-will-break-them/

It would be really interesting to get the stats on school resignations and early retirements for this year, and how they compare to previous years. Watching people with 20-25 years teaching experience, and solid reputations among students, leave the staff and go into other areas of the public sector despite having at least 10 years left as a teacher is instructive. And this would not be a deprived school, where teachers endure substantially more challenges on their mental health and energy levels (and financial inequity due to the absence of school-paid posts). These people had the 'dream job' of their newly qualified selves in their early 20s, and then give it up. Not a single career break was granted in our school this summer, and this precipitated these resignations of genuinely popular, consummate professionals on the staff.

As for younger staff being able to afford accommodation in Dublin, good luck with that! This government is away with the fairies in its refusal to get serious about the housing shortage.

dory

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643817#Comment_120643817

We're the same. Has been like that for 5-6 years and has really changed the dynamic.

I'm also hearing about career breaks being denied and those teachers just quitting instead. Life's too short.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120700236#Comment_120700236

I left teaching for a period for that reason. Job share denied so I resigned my position. I went back to it in a different school after a year out.

Random sample

It’s so short sighted not allowing leave.

My principal is of the opinion, and is open about it, that anyone who asks for leave does so for their own valid reason and should be accommodated.

iniscealtra

In the West so all positions are full. Career breaks and job shares are given. Difficult to get a teaching position thats not a foxed term in this area. Staff are now looking for job shares due to burnout with new measures introduced over the last few years. That’s new. Only position not certain they can fill on job share is Home Econonics.

I think they only allow leave if they get someone to fill the position ? Is that the policy?

deiseindublin

Were I in management I'd be asking myself "Would I prefer half a Home Ec teacher, or no Home Ec teacher?"

deiseindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646811#Comment_120646811

Most likely they will resign their position to take up new contract, or sub X amount for the year casually. This was relaxed to allow more days the last while, but it's still a year at a time that's being decided.

iniscealtra

The thing is that you’d get more applications for the position if the Home Ec teacher did quit as it would be Full hours and a contract that could lead to a CID.

gaiscioch

I think most of us have been right here with the 'Is this a real job?' question in yesterday's Irish Tines:

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/06/21/is-this-a-real-job-for-teachers-sending-in-a-cv-can-feel-like-a-roll-of-the-dice/

Alex86Eire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120748586#Comment_120748586

I (unknowingly) took a job from a candidate that was reinterviewing and was basically told she had the job so you never know!

gaiscioch

This morning's paper: 416 unfilled post-primary positions the week before schools reopen:

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/08/23/hundreds-of-teaching-posts-unfilled-a-week-before-schools-reopen/

noplacehere

Our school had an unqualified "teacher" in maths last year. Team teaching... essentially I had an extra student in the room to mind. They are apparently back again in September. Still unqualified. I was also told that they had a teacher in for me while I was out last year, I was delighted. Yup, nope-it was a new graduate from an arts degree. No teaching degree/PME and had never stood in a classroom before. Essentially my class was babysat

I know of someone who was trying to avail of Carers leave. They were told they had to resign their position entirely and sub instead and the circular apparently specifically prevents them from teaching their own classes. So they'd have to be down the corridor covering another teacher while no qualified teacher can be found for their room... Last I heard they gave up and took a career break to care for their daughter instead because it was so much hassle and paperwork. Thats an outrageous situation

mtoutlemonde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017032#Comment_121017032

I wonder how many are 22 RPT contracts - very few I'd say they are small hours and people would be better off subbing for the day instead of being timetabled first and last, spending the day in the staffroom.

mtoutlemonde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017111#Comment_121017111

I totally agree, I work in a school where you would have enough content for three bestsellers if not more. It's shocking what school management get away with.

noplacehere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017809#Comment_121017809

We are down three full time staff apparently. Not sure what the contract types are but they are full hours. Commuter belt so staff get the jobs in june and then get a job further west at this stage of the year. To be fair to management, staffing is a nightmare and I would hate to be timetabling. No matter how organised they are it always changes which I think has led to the get a "body in the room" rather than get "a good teacher in the room"

gaiscioch

I just found out today that another few teachers in our school will not be coming back for the coming school year. It seems that over the summer they got new jobs nearer to their homes in rural Ireland in all cases. In all cases they have young kids, or are about to have them. This is on top of all the teachers who gave notice before the summer. Some really good, focused and very professional (a hugely underrated quality in the workplace) teachers have been lost this year overwhelmingly, if not entirely, due to the cost of housing in Dublin.

Bobtheman

The government won't do anything. They have allowed waiting lists to explode and children to go homeless.

Kids not being educated. No big deal

Str8outtaWuhan

Not a teacher but my son's first day in 2nd yr consisted of 5 (1 hr classes) of which the school didn't have teachers to teach 3 of them 🤣 he said they were told the school haven't found teachers yet .

Bobtheman

A simple solution would be a Dublin allowance time limited for say 4 years but I just can't see it happening because they'd have to offer to nurses etc

I think they hope that demographics will sort it out.

Evidence for this is the way the teaching council discourages people to return to Ireland.

The department of education hate committing to long term commitments which teachers are.

We are governed by idiots who are trying to avoid the last crisis while creating a new crisis. We don't need to worry about a sudden collapse in finance like 2008. That's last crisis

The states population is bulging. We need to pump huge money into public services but they won't do that because the two guys in finance lack any imagination

This is the new crisis even worse public services. If that was possible.

The government simply hopes to be re- elected because you fear SF oh and because the economy is doing well

Dickie10

Is just casual subbing in greater dublin commuter belt a sustainable way to make a few quid? is there much demand for literally supervising classes? are there many doing it? thinking of doing it this year.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044260#Comment_121044260

There’s never going to be a Dublin allowance because the unions would oppose it and the politicians are more than happy to go along with that. Besides such an allowance would have to be as high as €20000 due to the insanity of the housing market in Dublin. Providing a few grand and calling it a Dublin allowance wouldn’t last very long in Dublin. It might pay for rent for a couple of months but that’s it.

spurious

If only teachers had warned people about exactly this.

am_zarathustra

I'd have said 5 years ago a dublin allowance was impossible but people who would have been vehemently against are coming around. We haven't even seen the full spike of population into secondary and schools are seriously struggling. Extra paid subbing hours will eventually just lead to burnout, again a short term solution.

The one year dip would also make a difference, but its a cheap moneymaker for universities so its hard to see them wanting to reform.

But 100%, it was all so predictable, count the students, could the teachers and divide the former into the latter. It's not rocket science.

2011abc

Two year Dip is a joke and has now come home to roost