Cocaine Destroying Rural Ireland

Dyr · 14-05-2023 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596099#Comment_120596099

Philippines had a massive drug problem and a massive corruption problem, it took drastic measures to swing the balance.

TagoMago · 14-05-2023 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596036#Comment_120596036

What would you suggest be done about it?

Dyr · 14-05-2023 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596135#Comment_120596135

Don't tolerate the importation, sale or use of Class A drugs.

14-05-2023 3:37pm

How much is a cocaine fix and typically how many fixes would a habituated user need per day?

I’m well out of the loop on these things.

TagoMago · 14-05-2023 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596137#Comment_120596137

All of those are already crimes that you'd get a conviction for? And most likely jail for the first two

Dyr · 14-05-2023 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596147#Comment_120596147

Compare our laws and attitudes to countries that don't tolerate the use of drugs and have low levels of drug use.

TagoMago · 14-05-2023 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596164#Comment_120596164

Ok, let's say we introduced similar laws to Singapore, Philippines, etc. Death penalty for dealers and smugglers, and very long sentences for people caught with small amounts for personal use. Also, the police are allowed to shoot and kill suspected dealers. Would that be an improved situation?

banie01 · 14-05-2023 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596036#Comment_120596036

Thanks for that, I know you aren't who I asked, but I do appreciate the answer.

Japan and Singapore are decent examples of societal taboos; societal norms there are far stricter than our own. That said, drug use is growing in both despite both those taboos. It could also be argued that the type of drug used in the Japan & Singapore leads to a different outcome. Marijuana, Speed & MDMA are very much more prevalent there. perhaps due to stricter border controls, but certainly still used and growing.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15542746/

On the European countries, I'd agree that Greece is a pretty decent analogue for Ireland both in terms of population and systemic shocks in recent past. The EMCDDA numbers are probably the best baseline to start a comparison. What does leap out is that at double the population tabulated. Greece has only @ 10% more arrests and 50% less needles distributed. At 1st glance, is our problem a harder core of drug users exacerbating the level of criminality vis a vis Greece?

initially that is a stark difference. What is odd versus Ireland? I'd argue that the nature of the EMCDDA survey and Data capture miss a huge portion of transient drug users in Greece and in many other holiday destinations. It's more though that Greece invests in Treatment, and a large proportion of folk arrested for recreational use aren't charged. It's confiscation and, at worst, an early flight home from Mykonos. That's not to say I disregard the numbers, I don't. They are the only real comparable datasets available in Europe on a country-by-country basis.

What jumps out from the Greek Numbers Vs Ireland, is IMO. The numbers entering treatment programmes rather than the number of charged drug crimes. Ireland has 18988 high-risk opioid users Vs Greece's 14462; rough guesstimate is that Ireland has 25% more at-risk users, yet? Greece has 9388 in treatment vs Ireland having 10316 or again this is rough rounding, Ireland having slightly more than 50% of opioid users in treatment Vs Greece having 65% or so of problematic opioid users in treatment.

It isn't prohibition that Greece is doing better its treatment. I'd also be quite happy if Irish drug policy could manage to bring our proportion of Users/Arrests/Needles? Treatment is more in line with Greek numbers. That doesn't mean our jails are going to be stocked full of dealers anytime soon, though. Rather that our treatment/Detox options can and should improve.

Where I'd differ from many folk in my assessment of the Drug user is that I am not a fan of the disease model, personal, familial and academic experience leads me to sitting more in the Addiction as a result of Psychodynamics. Many are self medicating, filling holes they have in their lives(for whatever reason). Any treatment plan or intervention model that Ireland takes is better directed towards that end and early interventions. Than it is coddling the "disease" model.

Igotadose · 14-05-2023 4:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596185#Comment_120596185

Nice post.

"

Where I'd differ from many folk in my assessment of the Drug user is that I am not a fan of the disease model, personal, familial and academic experience leads me to sitting more in the Addiction as a result of Psychodynamics. Many are self medicating, filling holes they have in their lives(for whatever reason). Any treatment plan or intervention model that Ireland takes is better directed towards that end and early interventions. Than it is coddling the "disease" model."

I'm in agreement about the coddling of the 'disease' model. AA's model is what the HSE uses, and by any statistical analysis, is a failure, something like a 12% success rate if you can get statistics at all. If you've read "Inside Rehab" you can see what a scam rehab is in the US, and what's available in Ireland is very similar. But AA is tied to the RCC in Ireland, so will be hard to dislodge, and the lack of qualifications needed to be a 'therapist' in Ireland is borderline criminal - in the US, nowadays most states require you to have a PhD and thousands of hours of internship. In Ireland, go to some technical U. for a few bits and bobs of training and you can hang up your shingle. Until serious reform is undertaken to Irelands mental health system, the addicted will be in bad shape.

Tomaldo · 14-05-2023 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595905#Comment_120595905

The prison capacity in Ireland is about 4.500, I heard on radio recently, we're full to the brim with people only serving a fraction of their sentence. Did you post a link from the HRB before which estimated about 72 thousand people had used cocaine in Ireland in the previous 12 months. Where is the money to come from to implement your policy, think of the extra gardai needed, legal costs, prisons and staff to run them. I'd prefer if scarce prison places were used for people who commit crimes which involve a non-consenting victim, such as robbery, assault, rape etc. not for something which is consensual.

Tomaldo · 14-05-2023 4:46pm

Thailand has the death penalty for drug-trafficking, but I know from personal experience people still buy and sell drugs in that country

Wanderer78 · 14-05-2023 4:49pm

legalize the lot, but slowly, start with the c's, and work from there, will there be problems, damn right there will be!

dasdog · 14-05-2023 4:52pm

My peer group would have had many drug users. Some even in middle age are still using heroin/cocaine/crack including parents.

-Irish prisons are already over capacity

-The navy can't patrol the porous coastline

-There is an appetite for it and lots of money to be made

I wouldn't put faith in the state to organise a birthday party for a six year old without making a costly a mess of it let alone formulate a cohesive drug policy. Cocaine is not going away just like heroin never went away. If adults want to take it let them and they can face the consequences when things get out of hand which is inevitable in some cases.

Glenomra · 14-05-2023 4:52pm

At least posters here acknowledge that we have a major problem in rural Ireland. Meanwhile the politicians in my constituency can tweet about the most irrelevant topic, especially if its trendy, but never ans I mean never mention 'the elephant in the room ' which is causing so many problems for families in their constituency. I realise that invasion of Ukraine is a serious event but how often do they have to tweet some insignificant detail like the one tank at the Moscow commemoration and sign off with Slava Ukraina while their so many of their own people are in despair. Are they unaware or in denial.

Wanderer78 · 14-05-2023 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596386#Comment_120596386

...again, drug use/addiction has multiple complex layers to it, addicts dont just wake up some morning and say fcuk it, im getting fcuked up, and ta fcuk with the consequences.....

funnyname · 14-05-2023 5:03pm

In Ireland there's a mandatory minimum term of 10 years for dealing in Cocaine, very rarely used which is a surprise given the clue in the name.

Jizique · 14-05-2023 5:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596395#Comment_120596395

Some do surely; should we consider restricting medical attention and care to those who get into trouble with drugs (including alcohol)? Their choice to take drugs so perhaps the scarce resources should be kept for others?

Wanderer78 · 14-05-2023 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596501#Comment_120596501

....now that sounds completely fcuked up, so should we restrict access to our health system for many others that struggle with mental health issues/addiction problems etc etc?

Jizique · 14-05-2023 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596517#Comment_120596517

Many are just doing it socially, according to most posters. At least the alcohol companies generate some tax

Wanderer78 · 14-05-2023 5:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596531#Comment_120596531

...yea drug use, including drugs such as alcohol, nicotine, and other addictive substances such as sugars etc, is bloody complicated, since it involves humans, i do think the legalise everything approach would be far better, but extremely problematic in itself....

...i do think weed etc will be legalised soon enough, and we ll be better for it to....

screamer · 14-05-2023 5:45pm

Alcohol is completely vilified, while drugs are just allowed run rampant. I see teenagers I know of under 18 with parents ferrying them to house parties and even providing the alcohol for them….. how long till the little darlings start dabbling in drugs? Too permissive and parents who don’t parent. As for rural Ireland well, it’s destroyed full stop. You can’t get a litre of milk past 6 o clock in most little villages, but drugs are no bother. Government don’t care, gardai couldn’t be bothered, I don’t blame them. I think if people want to use drugs well leave them on, If, with all the information out there, on the dangers and problems with drugs, they are too thick to make good choices, it’s their own problem. Idiots be idiots, leave them on.

Wanderer78 · 14-05-2023 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596592#Comment_120596592

....as a species, we ve been dabbling in mind altering substances since the year dot, i.e. its a part of the human experience, some are more vulnerable than others, this to has probably always been the case, laws or no laws, aint gonna stop us doing this, ever.....

screamer · 14-05-2023 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596604#Comment_120596604

Yep exactly, the only thing that can actually keep someone on a good path is themselves. People don’t care anymore, I think shame was a big motivator in the past, that’s gone now, as it should be, but pride should have replaced that, people don’t care, it’s whatever they want, whenever they want, consequences be damned. Idiots.

Guildenstern · 14-05-2023 5:57pm

Wouldn't be a drugs problem if the middle class vermin who regularly take it on a night out, do it.

Wanderer78 · 14-05-2023 6:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596625#Comment_120596625

...all of us can easily end up on the 'wrong path', it only takes an event, a trauma, etc, and you re off! all humans are susceptible to this, all of us, but some are far more vulnerable than others!

...people do care, probably most people do, while some truly couldnt give a fcuk, thankfully theyre in the minority, for now anyway...

...shame never worked, it just pushed dysfunctions further behind closed doors, a lot of addiction is based in shame

...people are severally stressed, this is leading to serious social dysfunctions, including addictions

Yurt2 · 14-05-2023 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596085#Comment_120596085

I could take you to places in Tokyo and Seoul where you'll get your fix if you want it. Drugs are liberally used in the club scene in Japan and South Korea.