Cocaine Destroying Rural Ireland

Quitelife

Every passing week in our rural part of the world in Munster theres some issue impacting our community due to Cocaine.

Last Sunday my wife had to help her friend whos 20 year old son headbutted his mother breaking 6 of her teeth because she wouldnt give him more money for cocaine.She is off sick from work and due to giving him all her money the past year or two is struggling to pay for dentures.

The traveller gang who sell all the drugs locally are doubling & Quadroupling dug debt amounts on a weekly basis to amounts that cant be possibly paid ensuring the cocaine addicts have to work for them . They also give out free sachets " taster offers" to 16/17/18 year olds going to pubs for the first time to snare them to a life of addiction.

5 or 6 suicides of young people over drug debts and failure to come off cocaine in past 3/4 years and a couple of deaths from brain aneryisms of middle aged users.

Local pubs already under financial pressure are closing down as older punters are afraid to go to pubs due to drug dealers intimidating any non drug users in the pub with pub owners also afraid of dealers.

Closed garda stations in most rural towns with inadequate drug squad operating from some far away central station . DRug dealers control swathes of Rural Ireland not the state.

Local TD Politicans dont seem to care , too busy above in Dublin as their constituenciey becomes more lawless with each passing year.

Threadbans

Yurt2

Glenomra

Stark commentary but true. Attended a suicide of a young man just last week in rural Ireland. Man who progressed from casual user to part time dealing, to in increasing debt to Galway based gang, to gang house calls to his parents for the money owed . I know of 2 young girls who decided to go to Australia to avoid the incessant pushing of drugs when they're out socialising leaving their social circle regular drug users.

FishOnABike

In the countryside other vermin are usually shot or poisoned!

SuperBowserWorld

Edit ....cleanup.

No rural ireland anymore. Everyone has cars, good roads, high speed broadband. It's a globalized small country.

Vote for politicians who will fix the problems instead of politicians who latch onto non problems.

We need to grow up as a nation and stop deferring to church, UK, EU, tik tok, the housing "crisis", ... to solve our problems.

Educate your children over right Vs wrong. We've handed them over to social networks. What could possibly go wrong ?

People who think cocaine is cool should have to go talk and work with people who have to deal with the consequences of it.

Wanderer78

nationwide problem unfortunately, im hearing more and more older people also dabbling in it to, while having a few pints, this is a scary one, expect monumental problems from this!

Yurt2

This is not to minimise the ancecdotes you gave, but rural Ireland (and Ireland generally) has an addiction problem full stop.

We're a nation of boozers, and we drink too much. Cocaine is merely a bolt-on addiction to our primary one.

Addiction is a function of a lack of meaning in life, sadness and possibly unresolved trauma.

How do you solve this in rural Ireland? I wouldn't know where to start. Way more engagement with mental health services and if you're looking to the government to do anything it's to fund mental health services.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595395#Comment_120595395

...unfortunately, we may never accept how much funding our health care system truly needs, in particular the psychological entity of it....

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595359#Comment_120595359

This use is IMO particularly insidious. The coke fuels more drink and more drink fuels more coke. I know of lads in their 60's who's social pints have turned into this mode of rolling the dice on a heart attack. I know lads in their 30s and 40s who have lost that gamble, a couple of deaths too.

Glenomra's point on it being a driver of suicide and of emigration. Are in my experience quite true, we are I think both around Limerick I am in the city. I don't think we know each other IRL but we no doubt have a degree of crossover in people & stories we know. It's a point I make every time suicide is discussed. Our reporting is being massively skewed by coroner's both having their hands tied by onerous requirement before they will label a death as suicide. It most be be almost to a criminal level of proof before a coroner will declare anything other than misadventure.

That may be somewhat of a salve to the families (I don't believe it ever really is) but it hamstrings our suicide and mental health charities when making representations to government.

2020 and the late reporting/recording of deaths has Ireland's No of Suicides at 399. Parse that against the figures for self harm, overdose and other self inflicted injuries over the same period. Then anecdotal as it may be, try to reconcile that against people local to you, known to have taken their own lives. I know in my personal experience the difference is stark.

There needs to be an acknowledgement of the extent of the Suicide/Self harm crisis. Realistic and accurate reporting of those numbers and comparing them with (as a broad example) the road death numbers and ensuring a similar effort is made to reduce fatalities is sorely needed.

It's not a rural problem and I'd agree that the notion of rural Ireland as a homogeneous culture as it was even as recently as 30yrs is long gone. It's an Irish problem that needs a clear eyed assessment and an honest discussion.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595395#Comment_120595395

Very well said. We are a country recovering from, just recently, the trauma of Church control of our lives, emigration and the most recent horrific recession.

Historically not being open about our feelings and desires.

There is also the pressure on young people to conform to the norm here in society - be good at sports, marry and have children, stay in your local area.

All these reasons, and a million others,drive people to want to escape and experiment with drugs.

Richard Hillman

It's probably easier for a small time dealer to get away with things if they have a decent network of people.

It's pretty easy to spot the dealers in Dublin, as they hang out in the streets in full view, wearing Canada Goose jackets.

Rural Ireland is a bit of a wasteland for adult sport. The GAA tend to discard them when they hit around 18 and it turns serious, as opposed to participation. Football is the same to be fair.

Very quickly, they go from active teenagers to drinkers, gamblers, drug users with little else to do. And their friend network are probably in the same boat.

I genuinely think the emphasis on team sports in the country is dragging it down. Most peoples relationship with the sports (including myself) goes from active participant to spectator in a pub or stadium very quickly. It usually involves booze too.

Whereas, if you are a cyclist, you are always a cyclist. If you are a swimmer, you are always a swimmer. If you are a runner, you are always a runner. If you are a golfer, you'll always be a golfer.

If you are a GAA or Rugby player, the vast majority pack it in at around 16-18. Football is slightly different in that there are more recreational options with astro pitches etc (and those a privately owned or council)

The big 3 sports organisations completely fail young adults. They have no interest when they believe you won't play for the country, province, country at the high level. They want you in the stands buying tickets or getting drunk in a pub as a spectator.

BrianD3

According to the EMCDDA stats below, we are 2nd worst in the EU for cocaine usage. However, 4.8% of 15-34 year olds using cocaine in the last year doesn't seem overly bad to me, is 1 in 20 young people using cocaine really indicative of rural Ireland being "destroyed".

https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/03/28/kicking-europes-cocaine-habit-which-countries-in-the-eu-are-the-worst-hit-by-addiction

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595526#Comment_120595526

Lots of GAA clubs will have a B or even a C team.

It's all about participation. They just want you to turn up and play at a level that suits you.

HildaOgdenx

Mod - Thread moved to CA where it's more suited.

Local charter now applies.

maninasia

Know of one pub in rural Munster, basically a tiny village, not close to Limerick either, closed for exactly the reasons you said. Drug dealers took it over, basically owner had to shut it and abandon the business. Still empty to this day.

SuperBowserWorld

I think the alcohol industry should assume some liability for the cocaine issue and contribute to a solution. Alcohol is the gateway drug. We have not learned to deal with alcohol in this country. Until we do that we have not a hope in hell with dealing with cocaine.

I also think we were better off as hunter gatherers 😁

Glenomra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595526#Comment_120595526

But it's an activity not confined to ex GAA, rugby and soccer players. Players at an elite level and players with a casual involvement in team sports.That's certainly not the case. It involves active team players and mentors, active cyclists, swimmers, mountain climbers, surfers etc etc. Across different age groups and classes. Users include teachers builders, doctors solicitors, counsellors, politicians the unemployed etc etc. It's endemic.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595241#Comment_120595241

Everyone in rural Ireland has good roads and high speed broadband?

You are having a fookin laugh if you believe that.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595550#Comment_120595550

An addict, be it alcohol, cocaine or something else drags everyone around him/her down. Parents, kids, siblings, friendship groups, work colleagues are all impacted even if the individual rationalises they are "only harming themselves".

For every 1 addict you can probably take it for granted there's at least 5 people setting themselves on fire trying to help them. And it's often out of a misguided love.

The only person that can drag an addict out of the fire is the addict themselves. There needs to be some sort of infrastructure, be it medical or psychological, but they're only people that can really do it.

I've gone to the well before to spoon-feed an addict getting better. It's like looking into the void, unless they want it themselves, you're only harming yourself trying to go too far trying to help them. I know that sounds bleak, but it's what I've found.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058296404/cocaine-destroying-rural-ireland

Might this be a midlands story ?, I know the drugs trade is dominated by tinkers in the midlands

good luck expecting that to be properly reported by media so any increased focus is unlikely to occur

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595811#Comment_120595811

Here, people of all classes and walks of life are involved in the cocaine supply chain and keep it spinning. And there's no need to use that word to describe travellers whatever you think of them. Keep it to yourself.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595817#Comment_120595817

I was merely asking was it a personal story of a person in the midlands, hence why I specifically stated that tinker’s control the drug trade in the midlands, that’s an indisputable fact , it’s also why the story - problem won’t receive any scrutiny

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595765#Comment_120595765

Yes, you are correct. I'm just saying that a lot of people when they hit around early 20s that they don't really have much incentive to stay fit and healthy (even though they should regardless).

I just think people lose a lot when they hit their early 20s. They might have good jobs or ok jobs but the culture of going out and getting shitfaced on Friday or Saturday, is big because they don't really have much going on on Saturday and Sunday morning.

I say this from my own experience. I used to use a lot of cocaine in my early 20s. Exercising on a Saturday/Sunday was an alien concept to me.

I wouldn't touch cocaine now. I have friends that don't get out that often and when they do there is a mandatory bag with them. I don't go out with them if they are using. Even at weddings they are using, which I find completely out of order.

It's very hard to un-normalize something unfortunately.

Strumms

The only way to disincentivise or de-normalize coke is to prosecute and jail users as well as dealers/importers. Anyone and everyone with it.

the reality is……

people don’t have fear to be in possession of it.

people now don’t have fear to be consuming it openly at the sink in their local pub or nightclub say.

Sure look at the dealers ! One lad…Sentenced to 3 years with final 18 months of that suspended.

a cocaine dealer who probably only likely to do 11/12 months…

there is no deterrent for users, little deterrent to dealers.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595905#Comment_120595905

Jailing users is a massive waste of time, and we'd need a prison system the size of somewhere like the UK or Germany before we'd even start thinking about it.

It's not even a starter.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595905#Comment_120595905

Can you give an example of any country where the wholesale prohibition of drugs, prosecution of dealers and users has borne out to be a success?

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595795#Comment_120595795

😁 Sorry, I mean access to good roads and internet access. But my main point is that we are no longer a rural country.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595952#Comment_120595952

You can find that by googling yourself…lots of countries…

not prosecuting people who are engaging in criminal acts with criminal gangs and dealers in the procurement and supply and use of cocaine is a total failure…..right here, right now.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595978#Comment_120595978

You're the one making the point that extensive prohibition will make a difference. I'm asking you what bears that out. I'm not trying to be smart, it wasn't a trick question but great to see you swerve it anyway.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595952#Comment_120595952

Japan, Signapore. Most of Asia. Drug use in the Philippines dropped by 50 per cent under Duerte.

The countries in Europe that have the harshest penatlies for drug use tend to have lowest problems, Greece, Hungary, Sweden, Poland

Of course, we in Ireland when given the choice between doing something that will actually address the issue and something that will make a few people feel good about themselves, will always choose the latter.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595952#Comment_120595952

Japan and South Korea.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596036#Comment_120596036

I think Duerte is a special case since he gave customs officials permission to shoot and kill drug smugglers.

Also some dealers end up shot dead in mysterious circumstances after police "buy and bust" operations.

I'm against dictatorship even when its 'for a good cause'.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596099#Comment_120596099

Philippines had a massive drug problem and a massive corruption problem, it took drastic measures to swing the balance.

TagoMago

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596036#Comment_120596036

What would you suggest be done about it?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596135#Comment_120596135

Don't tolerate the importation, sale or use of Class A drugs.

How much is a cocaine fix and typically how many fixes would a habituated user need per day?

I’m well out of the loop on these things.

TagoMago

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596137#Comment_120596137

All of those are already crimes that you'd get a conviction for? And most likely jail for the first two

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596147#Comment_120596147

Compare our laws and attitudes to countries that don't tolerate the use of drugs and have low levels of drug use.

TagoMago

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596164#Comment_120596164

Ok, let's say we introduced similar laws to Singapore, Philippines, etc. Death penalty for dealers and smugglers, and very long sentences for people caught with small amounts for personal use. Also, the police are allowed to shoot and kill suspected dealers. Would that be an improved situation?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596036#Comment_120596036

Thanks for that, I know you aren't who I asked, but I do appreciate the answer.

Japan and Singapore are decent examples of societal taboos; societal norms there are far stricter than our own. That said, drug use is growing in both despite both those taboos. It could also be argued that the type of drug used in the Japan & Singapore leads to a different outcome. Marijuana, Speed & MDMA are very much more prevalent there. perhaps due to stricter border controls, but certainly still used and growing.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15542746/

On the European countries, I'd agree that Greece is a pretty decent analogue for Ireland both in terms of population and systemic shocks in recent past. The EMCDDA numbers are probably the best baseline to start a comparison. What does leap out is that at double the population tabulated. Greece has only @ 10% more arrests and 50% less needles distributed. At 1st glance, is our problem a harder core of drug users exacerbating the level of criminality vis a vis Greece?

initially that is a stark difference. What is odd versus Ireland? I'd argue that the nature of the EMCDDA survey and Data capture miss a huge portion of transient drug users in Greece and in many other holiday destinations. It's more though that Greece invests in Treatment, and a large proportion of folk arrested for recreational use aren't charged. It's confiscation and, at worst, an early flight home from Mykonos. That's not to say I disregard the numbers, I don't. They are the only real comparable datasets available in Europe on a country-by-country basis.

What jumps out from the Greek Numbers Vs Ireland, is IMO. The numbers entering treatment programmes rather than the number of charged drug crimes. Ireland has 18988 high-risk opioid users Vs Greece's 14462; rough guesstimate is that Ireland has 25% more at-risk users, yet? Greece has 9388 in treatment vs Ireland having 10316 or again this is rough rounding, Ireland having slightly more than 50% of opioid users in treatment Vs Greece having 65% or so of problematic opioid users in treatment.

It isn't prohibition that Greece is doing better its treatment. I'd also be quite happy if Irish drug policy could manage to bring our proportion of Users/Arrests/Needles? Treatment is more in line with Greek numbers. That doesn't mean our jails are going to be stocked full of dealers anytime soon, though. Rather that our treatment/Detox options can and should improve.

Where I'd differ from many folk in my assessment of the Drug user is that I am not a fan of the disease model, personal, familial and academic experience leads me to sitting more in the Addiction as a result of Psychodynamics. Many are self medicating, filling holes they have in their lives(for whatever reason). Any treatment plan or intervention model that Ireland takes is better directed towards that end and early interventions. Than it is coddling the "disease" model.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596185#Comment_120596185

Nice post.

"

Where I'd differ from many folk in my assessment of the Drug user is that I am not a fan of the disease model, personal, familial and academic experience leads me to sitting more in the Addiction as a result of Psychodynamics. Many are self medicating, filling holes they have in their lives(for whatever reason). Any treatment plan or intervention model that Ireland takes is better directed towards that end and early interventions. Than it is coddling the "disease" model."

I'm in agreement about the coddling of the 'disease' model. AA's model is what the HSE uses, and by any statistical analysis, is a failure, something like a 12% success rate if you can get statistics at all. If you've read "Inside Rehab" you can see what a scam rehab is in the US, and what's available in Ireland is very similar. But AA is tied to the RCC in Ireland, so will be hard to dislodge, and the lack of qualifications needed to be a 'therapist' in Ireland is borderline criminal - in the US, nowadays most states require you to have a PhD and thousands of hours of internship. In Ireland, go to some technical U. for a few bits and bobs of training and you can hang up your shingle. Until serious reform is undertaken to Irelands mental health system, the addicted will be in bad shape.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595905#Comment_120595905

The prison capacity in Ireland is about 4.500, I heard on radio recently, we're full to the brim with people only serving a fraction of their sentence. Did you post a link from the HRB before which estimated about 72 thousand people had used cocaine in Ireland in the previous 12 months. Where is the money to come from to implement your policy, think of the extra gardai needed, legal costs, prisons and staff to run them. I'd prefer if scarce prison places were used for people who commit crimes which involve a non-consenting victim, such as robbery, assault, rape etc. not for something which is consensual.

Tomaldo

Thailand has the death penalty for drug-trafficking, but I know from personal experience people still buy and sell drugs in that country

Wanderer78

legalize the lot, but slowly, start with the c's, and work from there, will there be problems, damn right there will be!

dasdog

My peer group would have had many drug users. Some even in middle age are still using heroin/cocaine/crack including parents.

-Irish prisons are already over capacity

-The navy can't patrol the porous coastline

-There is an appetite for it and lots of money to be made

I wouldn't put faith in the state to organise a birthday party for a six year old without making a costly a mess of it let alone formulate a cohesive drug policy. Cocaine is not going away just like heroin never went away. If adults want to take it let them and they can face the consequences when things get out of hand which is inevitable in some cases.

Glenomra

At least posters here acknowledge that we have a major problem in rural Ireland. Meanwhile the politicians in my constituency can tweet about the most irrelevant topic, especially if its trendy, but never ans I mean never mention 'the elephant in the room ' which is causing so many problems for families in their constituency. I realise that invasion of Ukraine is a serious event but how often do they have to tweet some insignificant detail like the one tank at the Moscow commemoration and sign off with Slava Ukraina while their so many of their own people are in despair. Are they unaware or in denial.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596386#Comment_120596386

...again, drug use/addiction has multiple complex layers to it, addicts dont just wake up some morning and say fcuk it, im getting fcuked up, and ta fcuk with the consequences.....

funnyname

In Ireland there's a mandatory minimum term of 10 years for dealing in Cocaine, very rarely used which is a surprise given the clue in the name.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596395#Comment_120596395

Some do surely; should we consider restricting medical attention and care to those who get into trouble with drugs (including alcohol)? Their choice to take drugs so perhaps the scarce resources should be kept for others?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596501#Comment_120596501

....now that sounds completely fcuked up, so should we restrict access to our health system for many others that struggle with mental health issues/addiction problems etc etc?

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596517#Comment_120596517

Many are just doing it socially, according to most posters. At least the alcohol companies generate some tax

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596531#Comment_120596531

...yea drug use, including drugs such as alcohol, nicotine, and other addictive substances such as sugars etc, is bloody complicated, since it involves humans, i do think the legalise everything approach would be far better, but extremely problematic in itself....

...i do think weed etc will be legalised soon enough, and we ll be better for it to....