Cocaine Destroying Rural Ireland

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076198#Comment_122076198

No-one to protect us?

Clearly these 2 "sportsmen" voluntarily took cocaine. The idea in this day and age that someone could be oblivious to the potential downsides of cocaine use does not hold water.

For every short term high when it comes to drug taking there is usually a much longer term low.

So no, they don't deserve to be protected, and hopefully they've learned the lesson to never do cocaine again but somehow I doubt they have.

And no the gardai shouldn't waste time on this case.

There's only one route out of this national drugs scourge, Personal Responsibility, and people not acting like 3 year olds ignorng sound advice and then go crying for help.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079258#Comment_122079258

Cocaine is a highly addictive drug, no-one doubts that. The best time to break that addiction is before you actually take it for the first time. People need to recognise its dangerous and addictive. Down-playing its effects is not helpful, as people then believe its harmless.

con___manx1

One thing that bothers me about it all is when I want to use the toilet cubicle to take a shite I have to wait for all the coke heads. Near **** myself one day.

In all seriousness I do see it as a huge problem with young people. It used to be more the younger lads doing it but now the young women are equally as hooked on it.

Don't know how they even afford it.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083591#Comment_122083591

What doesn't work with this argument is the huge amount of people that have taken it a few times that didn't have that problem happen.

Warnings like this are counter intuitive. It IS addictive, BUT, it probably won't be the first time that gets you addicted. Regular use, definitely will though! Honestly, it's up there with telling teens that they'll definitely get pregnant after the first time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083554#Comment_122083554

Feeling alright there, Judge Dredd? Glad to see you must be in favour of full legalisation of all drugs, so people can exercise personal responsibility.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083591#Comment_122083591

Again, you could say all thisabout legal drugs.

What doesn't help is the hysterical overreaction that you get hooked and can't stop when the person's own direct experience is to the contrary.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083769#Comment_122083769

By young people do you mean people in their 20s? Are you close to that age group also? As I’m not I just don’t see it but interested to hear what your estimation is around % number of users in their 20s, assuming you associate with this age group

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084296#Comment_122084296

From reading your posts, you appear to lead a very sheltered existence, where you doubt anything bad happens unless you directly experience it. Class A drug use is rampant, burying your head in the sand or ignoring it, doesn't make it go away.

We've all heard anecdotal as well as evidence in the news of the misery drug use has caused. This includes arrests, suicides, car accidents, family break ups, prison, you name it.

Do you accept there are criminal gangs in rural Ireland selling drugs and aggressively pursuing drug debts, up to and including the use of threats and violence?

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084260#Comment_122084260

Putting words in my mouth much?

My point about personal responsibility was to do with people taking ownership of their drug taking and issues relating to it.

It was in response to a poster who said we should all be protected by the gardai.

So the gardai shouldn't be involved if people want to buy drugs, none of their business, etc? But they should be involved if drug dealers issue threats to those who owe them money? Can't really have it both ways. The gardai have better things to be doing than getting involved when every Tom, Dick and Harry owes money to a drug dealer. What can they realistically do, offer 24 hour protection to the victim? Eventually the drug dealers will get them.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084580#Comment_122084580

Well, im guessing I've taken a lot more cocaine in my life than you have, and I haven't done it very often. I'm grounded on the reality that the scare 'just say no' tactic hasn't worked, isn't working and never will. To think it does is to live a sheltered existence.

The legality of it is not connected to its danger, that's been proven so classification is merely paperwork. Mushrooms are also class A and not considered anywhere near as addictive or dangerous as alcohol which is mot even controlled.

Do I accept criminal gangs are operating? Yes. But are they as aggressively pushing ideologies you say? No. Also, you don't specify a drug because if its cocaine, I'm skeptical. Heroin, I believe you. Heroin is way more addictive than cocaine, so that's the one they'll push.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084844#Comment_122084844

Where did I say they were pushing ideologies? What does this even mean?

I've mentioned cocaine on here several times, the thread is mostly about cocaine.

You're skeptical about gangs "pushing" cocaine. Be skeptical all you like, it happens. They are even giving out tasters to get people hooked.

Gangs push all types of drugs. However they don't always have to push, consumers often go looking for it.

My point was not about pushing drugs, it was about gangs using threats and violence, which is happening. Drug debts are common feature of modern Ireland unfortunately, including rural Ireland.

Regards consumption of cocaine its a numbers game. If there's a small number consuming of course a smaller number will end up in trouble, owing drugs debts, heavily addicted and so on. But if a larger number are consuming, you are looking at a larger number owing debts, heavily addicted. Its the same with most drugs bar maybe heroin which probably ruins the lives of most consumers eventually.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084648#Comment_122084648

Huh?

What words did I put in your mouth? I'll quote you direct this time.

My point about personal responsibility was to do with people taking ownership of their drug taking and issues relating to it.

Great. So if people are to be responsible for it personally, then it should be legalised.

It was in response to a poster who said we should all be protected by the gardai.

Well, yes. I believe that's meant to be their primary role, is it not? Keepers of the peace? If it isn't, you must tell us what it is.

So the gardai shouldn't be involved if people want to buy drugs, none of their business, etc? 

Of course they should as drugs are illegal. If they were legal, then you would be correct. Guards aren't involved in me buying alcohol now, but they were when I was 16 as it was illegal.

But they should be involved if drug dealers issue threats to those who owe them money?

Yes, because that is illegal.

Can't really have it both ways. 

Why not? Why can't the guards protect people, drug users and all at the same time as arresting people dealing or caught in possession of drugs?

The gardai have better things to be doing than getting involved when every Tom, Dick and Harry owes money to a drug dealer.

What is better than a guard doing their job? Their job is to be guardians of the peace, protectors of the vulnerable etc. I can't think of anyone more vulnerable than a drug addict in hock to some dealers. You think the guards should just turn their back on these because they don't agree with their lifestyle/illness/drug use etc? Where does that stop? No protecting someone because of their religion? The way the dress?

What can they realistically do, offer 24 hour protection to the victim? Eventually the drug dealers will get them.

They could arrest the dealers… What a novel approach that would be.

But again, a lot more resources could be freed up with legislation.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084969#Comment_122084969

Do you mean consumption should be legalised, or sale, supply and importation should be legalised? There's a big difference and implication for Garda time and resources depending which one.

If all of the above are legalised, you are still faced with gangs importing cocaine, that's unlikely to go away. They will just undercut the legalised price in a way black market cigarettes are imported currently.

Arrest the dealers, and then what? Lock them up permanently? For every dealer you lock up, they are replaced within days by someone new. Even in prison dealers can communicate and issue threats.

It would be impossible for the gardai to protect everyone who owes drug debts, completely impossible. You'd need to double or triple the size of the gardai to do this and the vast majority of their resources would be used to offer 24/7 protection to those who owe drug debts.

No thanks, a pointless waste of taxpayers money, especially when you see how they can't even police the roads!

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085009#Comment_122085009

Seems to me you just want to live in an anarchical state as it is useless for the police to do anything as the problems never go away.

The best way to ensure this problem never goes away or get worse is to whistle dixie, and turn around and forget about it.

If all of the above are legalised, you are still faced with gangs importing cocaine, that's unlikely to go away. They will just undercut the legalised price in a way black market cigarettes are imported currently.

Tell me this, how much of a percentage of the market does legal cigarettes take up compared to the black market? The way you go on, it should appear that the black market cigarettes would be in the majority.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085041#Comment_122085041

Seems to me you want to live in a Police/Nanny state!

Its fairly obvious the gardai cannot police drug debts and threats. There is virtually nothing they can do about it, even with the best will in the world. They can issue a warning to the gang, they could even arrest or imprison the individual who made the threats. This would likely lead however to death or a severe beating for the person who "informed". Ultimately the gardai have limited influence here, as even if they wanted to help it wouldn't make much difference.

Regards legalising everything, even Portugal haven't taken this approach. Drug trafficking is still illegal.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/portuguese-police-burn-6-tonnes-drugs-illicit-trade-surges-2023-06-26/

So the chances of it happening in Ireland anytime soon are none.

In 2022, 17% of cigerattes are black market. A further 10% are legal but non irish duty was paid.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/documents/research/tobacco-surveys-2022.pdf

However there's no chance of drug trafficking being legalised in Ireland so we are faced with criminal gangs and drug debts indefinitely.

randd1

I blame the price of alcohol and our increased vanity.

The steep rise in te price of a pint doesn't help matters. A night's worth of cocaine for the price of 5/6 drinks these days, maybe 4 drinks depending on the drink and the establishment. It's becoming a cheaper option with the way drink is going.

As for vanity, well cocaine doesn't cause weight gain, or leave a hangover so you can go to the gym/training/visit the parents in the morning. If you're into your appearance, and more and more young people are becoming very body conscious, then drinking might not be for you, and cocaine becomes an alternative to it.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085125#Comment_122085125

You should run for election with that campaign. "It's never going to get better, why try". A novel approach.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084955#Comment_122084955

Sorry, I meant drugs not ideologies - no idea what happened there!

Everything you outline is just more indicative of heroin not cocaine. When you run out of cocaine, theres no real craving for more. You'd like some, but you don't need it. With heroin, you do. That's a very specific difference.

Pushers might sell both, but they'll push heroin more because it's a much easier sell.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085208#Comment_122085208

I've very rarely come across coke users who don't have a line with a drink. The effect is often worse actually as you can drink far, far more when using.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078700#Comment_122078700

Yeah, a friend observed that the young coke head, or the old, were keeping rural pubs alive, and it's a fair point.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085269#Comment_122085269

Just being realistic. Rural gardai cannot watch drug gangs around the clock. Even a well resourced garda station with for example 10 gardai would struggle. And trying to protect someone from threats and violence from a gang, virtually impossible. Unless the threatened person is guarded 24/7, they will be got to eventually. Of course the gardai can issue a warning to the gang or to the threathened person about a threat, and this sometimes happens. Often the threatened person decides to leave the area and lie low. Or friends and relatives pay off the debt.

And legalizing consumption would be unlikely to solve the issue of drug debts to gangs.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085895#Comment_122085895

You're not "just being realistic" though, you are seeing everything in a worst case scenario case. Something I refuse to do.

I think legalisation of cannabis will free up resources and time for the police to go after actual dangerous drugs, like cocaine and heroin. There would be an increase in govt coffers through tax, that could provide even more resources for things like drug education, which is pretty terrible at the moment.

It really doesn't have to be all doom and gloom. We just have to try things we haven't tried before.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083769#Comment_122083769

Can you not do like yer man in American pie and run home to pot the brown

con___manx1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122086577#Comment_122086577

I live to far from the pub. Need a taxi and that would put the back seat at risk and a man's livelihood for the night possibly longer depending on the texture of the brown after being potted.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075648#Comment_122075648

They don't PREY on their clients. I used illegal drugs for over 20 years, but I CHOSE to buy them when I was in my twenties. I wasn't preyed on, tricked or forced. I was a school kid very near to where Larry Dunne lived and neither he or anyone connected to him ever offered me drugs. You're right when you say dealers threaten people who owe them money, that's why I want the law to be changed. I gave up the "dope" over a year ago. With respect, you seem to believe the prohibitionist propaganda which rarely, if ever, gets challenged by a compliant, biased and incompetent media.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075801#Comment_122075801

I was a kid once, I was never given drugs for free or squeezed, did it ever happen to you?

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085125#Comment_122085125

17 + 10%, those figures indicate 73 per cent are sold legally, surely that's better than illegal drugs where the exchequer and non-criminals get ZERO.

Tomaldo

"Free tasters" that never happened to me or any other coke-user I know. In my local off-licence I've been offered free samples of spirits/wine, the butcher has offered me a free taste of the latest sausage/whatever. Where in Ireland does this happen, I might be interested.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083591#Comment_122083591

"Cocaine is highly addictive"? I don't agree, I've taken it for about 20 years about 5/6 times annually, last time was Christmas 2022. Other posters have said heroin is. I can't confirm or deny that 'cos I've never tried it, but coke, no.

dickdasr1234

Mod

Warned for this post.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122098918#Comment_122098918

I agree, I'm a dope for posting FACTS instead of hysterical, inaccurate opinions. They sell drugs to school kids, yeah, I was in the Santa Claus queue when I first bought them.