US Mass Shootings Megathread - read OP

Manic Moran · 31-10-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302039#Comment_121302039

Certainly in ten years. We'll see after 50 what has happened in the meantime.

Workable large-effect solutions aren't being proposed. The workable small-scale solutions are sometimes proposed (By all parties, I would note), but usually either screwed up or shot down (By all parties, I would note).

The 'culture' of spree shootings is about 40 years old, so it could stop by then. (Not that there weren't spree shootings before then, UT Austin was 1966, for example, but they were much more rare).

silverharp · 31-10-2023 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304976#Comment_121304976

given that the mental health of americans is on the decline , there can only be more shootings in the medium term

Igotadose · 31-10-2023 1:14pm

The previous mass shooting in Maine is particularly troubling, as there were, well, flaming neon signs over the shooter for a long period of time, and yet, he could keep his firearms. It's not like there weren't enough laws in place, there were. Perhaps the local police failed in their enforcement (shades of Uvalde where local police fail, in the Uvalde case at the worst time), but it seems like more draconian laws nationwide need to be put in place, if the local police can't be relied upon. Maybe it's time to reinstate, well, f*ck it call it the AR-15 ban this time nationwide.

JP Liz V1 · 18-11-2023 1:14am

The suspect in a shooting at a psychiatric hospital in the US is dead, police say.

New Hampshire state police initially had reported "multiple victims" from the shooting, but later said gunfire was confined to the lobby area of the facility and that "all patients are safe".

"The suspect in this situation is deceased," Colonel Mark Hall said, without elaborating or taking questions.

He also said there was no longer any threat to the public.

The Associated Press reports that, other than the suspect, one person was shot, citing an anonymous police official.

The shooting was "contained to the front lobby" of the hospital, according to the Homeland Security department, and authorities are investigating a "suspicious vehicle".

New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu said the incident has been contained.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/multiple-victims-shooting-hospital-hampshire-212800375.html

Rows Grower · 07-12-2023 12:18pm

Mas shooting number 631 in the good ol' US of A for this year.

The 80th one of the year to take place on a college campus, the shooter was a 67 year old college professor.

USA! USA! USA!

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/us/university-of-nevada-las-vegas-campus-shooting/index.html

HerrKapitan · 24-12-2023 5:11pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/man-killed-in-targeted-shooting-at-florida-shopping-mall-6258467-Dec2023/

I was wondering why this one shooting (out of how many today?) was important enough to make the news?

Someone famous?

Igotadose · 24-12-2023 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121533475#Comment_121533475

The 'targeted' nature of it I think. I've visited that Mall ages ago. Really horrified to hear about this, but, it's the US.

Manic Moran · 24-12-2023 8:31pm

I'll go with packed public location. I'll bet the other shootings were in more routine locations.

Ten of Swords · 07-02-2024 10:43am

Yesterday, for the first time, a parent has been convicted for involuntary manslaughter after their child committed a mass shooting.

Ethan Crumbley (aged 15 at the time) killed 4 and wounded 6 at a school in Oxford Michigan in November 2021.

His mother Jennifer Crumbley was found guilty on 4 counts of involuntary manslaughter as she failed to secure a firearm and ammunition in her home and she failed to get her son support for his mental health when it was clear he began to act violently.

She will be sentenced in April and faces up to 60 years.

The father, James Crumbley, is facing similar charges in a separate trial due to begin next month.

https://apnews.com/article/oxford-high-school-mother-charged-01f336607a496c5f9ff0cb3a7434d073

Boggles · 07-02-2024 11:09am

So the prosecution tried the case on the fact that 15 year old boy had acute mental health issues which his parents failed to address which made them responsible for the shooting.

The same prosecution argued that his mental health issues had absolutely no bearing on his ability to commit the crime and he was sentenced to life without parole, something that can only be given to minors if a judge deems rehabilitation is impossible.

Ten of Swords · 07-02-2024 11:21am

Pretty sure this is the relevant part,

On the morning of Nov. 30, 2021, school staff members were concerned about a violent drawing of a gun, bullet and wounded man, accompanied by desperate phrases, on Ethan Crumbley’s math assignment. His parents were called to the school for a meeting, but they didn’t take the boy home.

A few hours later, Ethan Crumbley pulled a handgun from his backpack and shot 10 students and a teacher. No one had checked the backpack.

The gun was the Sig Sauer 9 mm his father had purchased with him just four days earlier. Jennifer Crumbley had taken her son to a shooting range that same weekend.

magicbastarder · 07-02-2024 11:25am

on a superficial level, it make a bit of sense - a parent being told their child has exhibited violent fantasies about guns, and neglects to mention that the child has access to guns, could be seen as an accessory. but i don't see this changing much; it may be significant because it's a first, but it won't have any impact on gun deaths.

Beta Ray Bill · 07-02-2024 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733150#Comment_121733150

The gun was bought with the child just days before, who they knew was mentally unstable. They then brought the child to a shooting range to show him how to use it and then they didn't secure it. Then he brought it to school and killed people

They are guilty, 100%

Boggles · 07-02-2024 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733221#Comment_121733221

It's legal to bring your child to the shooting range, also no law existed at the time pertaining to secure storage.

This case was based primarily on the fact that the parents did not seek mental health treatment for their son, which is unprecedented in this type of incident.

The Supreme Court Ruled in 2012 that a child who commits a crime cannot be locked up for the rest of their lives except for very exceptional circumstances.

The child clearly had mental health issues, but these were ignored at his trial and omitted from sentencing as mitigation.

It was the main aggravating factor in this case. It's beyond hypocritical.

Beta Ray Bill · 07-02-2024 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733285#Comment_121733285

C'mere... 4 people died. Someone is responsible.

The legal dribble you're citing is one of the biggest issues facing the western world. (People abdicating their responsibilities as "good humans" because of some technical/legal jargon written down on a piece of paper somewhere)

Something is written down on a piece of paper.... So what?!?! He shot 10 people and killed 4 of them with a gun made available to him by his parents.

F**k them! They're a**holes!

Boggles · 07-02-2024 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733400#Comment_121733400

He shot 10 people and killed 4 of them with a gun made available to him by his parents.

You are missing the point.

Whilst you and me would look at the fact that parents thought the child to be a crack shot and left the gun lying around as their main culpability. That was not illegal at the time, no law was broken. They were perfectly entitled to do that. I definitely think they had culpablity, but not now for the primary thing she was convicted on. You could argue the end justifies the means, but that is a very slippery slope to go down.

She was convicted on the primary fact that she did not seek mental health support for the child, the state on one hand is arguing that would have prevented the crime whilst on the other arguing it had no bearing on it. Those 2 things should not co-exist.

AFAIk the child wasn't prolific in his ramblings about killing.

So this case opens up parents to all sorts of legal jeopardy going forward.

If a child commits a crime and a deep crawl is done and they find some sort of violent musings, it could be deemed they have mental health issues which then puts the parents on the hook.

Given parents are not mental health professionals and literally 10s of millions of American children have basically no access to mental health services, this could well become an avenue for victims families to gain criminal redress, whether that is just or not.

It's certainly an interesting case though. I have no doubt some other legal firm will step in and lodge an appeal.

yagan · 07-02-2024 12:22pm

They facilitated a mass shooting. Maybe it was a fear of their kid being shot that motivated them to make a firearm available.

A perfect vicious circle, but one that's profitable for the arms industry.

Ten of Swords · 07-02-2024 12:22pm

He was tried as an adult and convicted of terrorism (among his other charges) which Michigan law allows.

The gun was effectively his, his mother said on social media that it was a 'Christmas present' and it was bought for him using his own money

Jennifer Crumbley referred to the gun on social media as a “Christmas present” for her son.

Ethan Crumbley admitted under questioning Monday that his own money was used to purchase the gun, which his father bought for him on Nov. 26, a few days before the shooting. He also agreed that the gun was “not locked” in a container or safe the morning he took it to the school.

https://apnews.com/article/pontiac-michigan-oxford-high-school-shooting-crime-shootings-ff69e26f96bb07af5dcb76bddc650bb4

Boggles · 07-02-2024 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733536#Comment_121733536

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-parent-or-guardian-purchase-firearms-or-ammunition-gift-juvenile-less-18-years-age

May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?

Yes. However, persons less than 18 years of age may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.

-----------------------------

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/michigan-passes-safe-storage-gun-bill-state-gop-likens-it-nazism

Under the safe storage legislation, if an owner fails to properly store a gun, and that gun is used by a minor to kill themselves or others, the owner could be charged with a felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison and a $7,500 fine. If a minor uses the gun to injure someone, the owner could face a five-year felony charge.

That wasn't passed until 2023.

magicbastarder · 07-02-2024 1:12pm

weird discrepancy between a 15 year jail sentence and a $7.5k fine.

Ten of Swords · 07-02-2024 1:26pm

@Boggles she wasn't charged with failure to secure a firearm, I don't know why you keep bringing that up.

She was charged with involuntary manslaughter, in other words death without intent resulted from her actions or negligence.

The father buying a firearm for his son and them both failing to secure it safely at home have evidential value in proving negligence

Boggles · 07-02-2024 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733845#Comment_121733845

But the point is, or point that was made by legally analysists I watched the other night on one of the cable news channels is they didn't actually break any laws.

Leaving your gun around, gifting your child a gun is not illegal therefore not negligence.

It's the exact same thing if you left you car keys around and the child took it and slaughtered 4 people on purpose or a knife.

The mental health angle was a complete punt.

There is laws around gun access and mental health (although Trump watered these down), but the state have to deem you mentally incompetent by a medical professional.

What the prosecution have basically done in this case is set the bar far higher for parents.

And like I said he never got in trouble in school and his musings were not consistent, they were quite far apart and sporadic, AFAIK. This wasn't a child with a stark history of being a raving looney.

Clearly he was deemed that after the fact, but you are entering the realms of pre crime there.

Now personally I'd jail all parents that left a hand gun around a child.

But for the purposes of debate in what is a conviction based on the law, my opinion is moot.

Christy42 · 09-02-2024 11:16am

Hawaii supreme court is pushing back against supreme court rulings on gun laws and ties them closer to the militia part of the amendment.

This is following on from Texas ignoring the supreme court rulings as well, though obviously they were not on gun laws.

Ten of Swords · 09-02-2024 11:18am

I liked Hawaii's ruling

The spirit of Aloha supercedes the second amendment

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hawaii-court-says-spirit-aloha-supersedes-constitution-second-amendment

Overheal · 14-02-2024 9:54pm

**** hell. 3 guesses what brought this on, and why are all 3 of them political extremism?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1aqwpa2/multiple_victims_reported_in_downtown_kansas_city/

https://www.mediaite.com/news/just-in-chaotic-scene-at-chiefs-super-bowl-parade-as-shots-fired/

pjohnson · 14-02-2024 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768773#Comment_121768773

The gun nuts will just claim its Taylor Swifts fault!

Jack Daw · 14-02-2024 10:02pm

I'm amazed this sort of thing hasn't happened before at a sports team homecoming celebration ( I guess the Boston Marathon bombing is the closest to it) , seems like the perfect opportunity to go on a killing spree with loads of easy targets.