US Mass Shootings Megathread - read OP

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291294#Comment_121291294

5% seems like far too many there. Never mind how many have it as a secondary reason as well. With a decent enough lobby you can get a small portion of people to outweigh the majority in lawmaking. Plus can get plenty to neutrality by shifting the focus onto windows or doors or security guards.

And while deep rooted issues should obviously be fixed, every country has those to some extent but while other countries have guns, none of them seem to have the same love of guns as the US does.

Boggles

It's guns.

Anyone telling you otherwise just loves guns.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288061#Comment_121288061

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291242#Comment_121291242

I believe you will find that in the cases of the vast majority of spree shootings, the firearm in question was purchased after having passed a background check

Most mass shootings in the US have a pre-existing criminal background

Huh?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291294#Comment_121291294

followed by hunting and target shooting.

Why would anyone need an assault rifle to hunt, unless they are hunting a herd of velociraptors?

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291600#Comment_121291600

I love guns, own a few and 100% agree with you, anyone that says any different is living in a bubble or trolling.

Some of the posts on here might convince some undecided people otherwise, but only if the undecided didn't have access to the internet.

Six in ten adults in the USA say gun violence is a very big problem in the USA.

It's starting to become a big problem here too, some lad cut loose up in Donegal recently with a legally held high powered rifle and it was only by the grace of God there wasn't multiple fatalities. There are more serious cases due before the courts.

On Crime Watch the other night a few lads broke into a house and took the whole gun safe which contained numerous rifles, a shotgun and a pistol. They were in and out in minutes, just opened the ground floor window and pushed it out, put it into a car and off with them. The Gardai seemed more concerned about one of the shotguns that was 100 years old and worth a few bob, they also mentioned the two golf medals that were stolen. No word about what types of rifles were stolen.There have been thousands upon thousands of legally held firearms stolen in this country in the last couple of decades alone.

And then we have this Gun Lobby crowd (https://firearmsunited.ie/) looking for members or people to give 2 euro a month to help their fight. What fight? Fill out the application from An Gardai, apply for a licence, pass the criteria and buy your rifle or handgun, it's as simple as that in Ireland. There is no need to encourage confrontational attitudes towards the Gardai or those elected to run the country.

Have one look at the video they have on the site, Jesus wept.

Boggles

Jesus that video, like a pound shop villain in a Bruce Willis movie.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291837#Comment_121291837

They claim to represent 50 million gunowners in Europe, so at the minimum fee of 2 euro a month to be a supporter (rather than a fully fledged member) that's 100 million euro a month they are taking in.

That's a lot of coin.

They don't seem to be registered as a business or a charity. Perhaps someone who knows about these things could clarify.

I wonder where one could see their accounts and what is all the money used for?

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291663#Comment_121291663

Mass shootings and spree shootings are not the same thing.

Why would anyone need an assault rifle to hunt, unless they are hunting a herd of velociraptors?

They don't. But there are several advantages to a good semi-auto in the job. Not least, that semi-auto can also peform secondary roles. The AR-15 isn't the most popular rifle in the US without reason, it is a rifle which is multi-purpose, reliable, cheap and easy to use and maintain by most anyone.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121292682#Comment_121292682

Have a word with yourself for the love God.

Atlantic Dawn

Robert Card found dead...

https://news.sky.com/story/maine-shooting-suspect-robert-card-found-dead-after-more-than-24-hours-on-the-run-12993624

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291294#Comment_121291294

Indeed, but the same false equivalences apply to any of those too. In fact, the fear of tyrannical government is the only narrative that, at the very least, would complement the acquiescence to a situation where one can effectively stockpile weaponry and ammunition. It's obviously still mad, but at least you can say that you would need a cache of weapons if you wanted to take on the might of the military or whatever other force has seized power.

The personal protection, target practice and hunting narratives are arguably even more infuriating because they don't even align proportionately to the actual situation of gun ownership in the US (ie, the variety of weaponry that is proliferated quite easily, the power of such weapons, the demonstrable ease with which such weapons can and constantly are used for what are effectively a constant stream of terror attacks).

The paradigm of gun violence in the US goes way, way beyond the perimeters of self-defence etc, which doesn't require things to be the way they are. But we will end up going in circles again when we are told "ah, but most of the guns are small personal protection weapons", which — like all the other narratives — is aggregated into an overarching argument that all that can be done is to collectively shrug shoulders, concede that gun culture and ownership is too ingrained and intractable to be fixed ... and point to instead "fixing" mental health which is an even more ingrained, far more intractable issue.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121292682#Comment_121292682

Give over, even I know why the AR-15 is popular and it has **** all to do with ease of use or maintenance.

Fully automatic assault weapons are illegal in the US and the AR15 is the closest legal version of an assault rifle that the gravy seals can buy.

Thats the reason and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

Boggles

So you don't need an assault rifle to hunt, the very notion of it is preposterous.

It would also appear the self protection angle doesn't hold water either.

https://time.com/6183881/gun-ownership-risks-at-home/

People living with handgun owners died by homicide at twice the rate of their neighbors in gun-free homes. That difference was driven largely by homicides at home, which were three times more common among people living with handgun owners.

We detected much larger differences for particular types of homicide. Most notably, people living with handgun owners were seven times more likely to be shot by their spouse or intimate partner. In many of these cases, instead of being protective, the household gun probably operated as the instrument of death.

An especially troubling finding was that the vast majority of victims in these intimate partner shootings—84% in all—were female. It stands to reason that women bear the brunt of any second-hand risks that flow from firearm ownership. That’s because most people who live with gun owners and don’t themselves own guns are women

Imagine ringing a door bell and getting shot in the head? Wild West.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/27/us/ralph-yarl-gma-interview/index.html

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121293067#Comment_121293067

Thanks be to God, the poor misfortunate people that have been locked in their homes living in fear since this heinous massacre of innocent people can now at least breathe a sigh of relief today and begin to support each other through the hell this lunatic inflicted upon them.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121292804#Comment_121292804

Why?

What is a single thing I said which was incorrect? If some law came down tomorrow and said "You may only ever have one firearm in the house", for sheer practical purposes and versatility, the AR or similar rifle would be in the running. There aren't many other weapons which big person A can use to kill hogs in the morning, and then have little person B target shoot in the afternoon.

"Thats the reason and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise."

BS. Ultimately most people actually spend their money on things which work more than on things which are flash. The rifle is very well designed and hugely versatile. It is a weapon with which much of the population are already familiar from military service (See also the prevalence of prior-generation military rifles in civilian use, such as the 1903, M1 carbine, M1 rifle). The sheer volume of sales has resulted in an economy of scale, ARs are some of the cheapest rifles out there. There is a massive infrastructure for after-sales maintenance and modification. On a purely rational basis, the rifle makes sense for private ownership if you believe private owners should be allowed rifles. The features which make it a weapon of choice for those who want to commit mass murder are exactly the same features which make it a weapon of choice for people who have law-abiding purposes in mind.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121294260#Comment_121294260

You contradicted yourself earlier so it cannot all be correct:

I believe you will find that in the cases of the vast majority of spree shootings, the firearm in question was purchased after having passed a background check

Most mass shootings in the US have a pre-existing criminal background

please explain what you feel the difference is between a spree shooting and a mass shooting.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121294306#Comment_121294306

He was christened well but there's a small spelling error in his name.

Manic Moran

The one is a subset of the other. Most, but not all, mass shootings are a single, short instance with a known target in mind. Spree killers don't care so much who exactly they kill, though they may have a specific target in mind (eg immigrants, blacks, etc) it's more a matter of shooting people who were unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place. Another term for spree shooter would be active shooter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer

For an example of the difference in the numbers by proportion, the Mass Shooting Tracker listed 693 mass shooting incidents in 2021. The FBI categorised only 61 of them as active (spree) shootings. (Of which, if you're curious, four were stopped by armed private citizens)

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121294260#Comment_121294260

A can use to kill hogs in the morning, and then have little person B target shoot in the afternoon.

You don't need an assault rifle to do either.

If by some quirk in reality they all disappeared, people would still be able to kill pigs and shoot at targets.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121294419#Comment_121294419

Is there any research available to show the difference between being shot by a spree shooter or a mass shooter?

As in like randomly being shot dead by someone in either scenario, which one is better?

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121294573#Comment_121294573

Whilst I am aware that the question is purely facetious, there is an actual answer as a greater proportion of mass shootings than spree shootings are conducted with handguns vs rifles, with accompanying differences in ballistic effect. I have not looked into it in any depth, but I'm sure the data exists to give you an answer. Feel free to spend your time digging into it.

Rows Grower

There's nothing facetious about the mass slaughter of innocent men, women and children, you disgust me.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1718311669489860825

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121294982#Comment_121294982

There isn't, I agree. It's your comment which was facetious, not the discussion or the subject. Insults such as in post #138 hardly do you credit there either. Ad hominems, after all, are the last refuge of those unable to succeed in rational argument. You may not like that there are positives to go with the negatives of various firearms in the US, but is not rational to ignore them (Let alone the difficulties in actually implementing various constraints).

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121295202#Comment_121295202

What insult?

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291837#Comment_121291837

It projects exactly the opposite of what they should be going for. It's like they wanted to look dodgy. Hiring a film student or something so there was someone in the room to tell them how lighting affects the whole mood of a scene would have been a start.

Rows Grower

There is so much wrong with it and the rest of the website that it's actually like a parody.

Three weeks ago a chap over on the shooting forum wanted to know could he bring a rifle magazine on a flight from Manchester to Cork. In the first reply he was correctly told No, it's classed as a firearm itself under Irish law.

That should have been the end of the discussion but the guy behind this FUNI website who considers himself an expert had this to say...

"utterly hypothetically of course, as no one would advise or condone lawbreaking. If it was put in the hold luggage at Ryanair's exorbitant baggage prices in an unassembled state amongst much clothing or whatever.... However, as you have posted on a public forum as to where from and where to.I wouldn't advise it."

It's still up over on the shooting forum for all to see so obviously the mods see nothing wrong with it.

I think it carrys a five year jail sentence on conviction.

Agent Coulson

Another one

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/29/florida-shooting-tampa-halloween-celebrations

BrianD3

A lot of incorrect and emotional rubbish being posted here. One poster is trying to develop the discussion and is being subjected to sneers and insults for it.

"Assault rifles" - one of the defining characteristics of an assault rifle is select fire i.e. option of full auto. An AR-15 (Colt, civillian) is not an assault rifle. Given the legal difficulty and expense (tens of thousands of dollars) involved in acquiring an actual assault rifle in the US, those who own them are likely to be highly responsible gun owners.

https://www.britannica.com/technology/assault-rifle

Facts, words and definitions are important. Sloppy language and ignorance are factors in Ireland having some of the most absurd firearms legislation in the world with numerous anomalies e.g a child's toy crossbow is technically a firearm that requires a licence as does any air rifle over 1 joule muzzle energy. In the UK, an air rifle can be about 16 times that energy before it need a license

Going back to the US, a significant proportion of mass shootings (including Virginia Tech, 32 dead) have involved handguns, not any type of rifle. Also there are wooden/traditional stock semi auto firearms with the same functionality as an AR-15 but because people are stupid and have consumed too many Hollywood action movies, they don't see them as as such as they don't look "tactical". The media feeds on and perpetuates this.

If every AR-15 and every other scary tactical looking firearm disappeared from the US, anyone who wanted to commit a mass shooting (4 or more casualties) could still easily do so with other readily available firearms.

Thankfully, mass shootings are an uncommon cause of death in the US and as posted, spree shootings (which seem to be the ones that disaster porn junkies obsess over) are a small subset of mass shootings. If someone shoots up a supermarket, that is both a spree shooting and a mass shooting. If a gang member shoots his rivals in a targeted attack, that's a mass shooting but not a spree shooting. .This nuance is going to be lost on the sort of people who don't even know what an assault rifle is.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302039#Comment_121302039

I don’t think so, as like I said I think for conservatives it’s becoming wrapped up in end times paranoia. They lack a vision for a prosperous and peaceful era.