SCEP Scheme

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587329#Comment_120587329

Afaik the important thing for you is to get your application in even if it’s only for 3 cows and plead your case afterwards for a bigger number, i doubt if you will be given anything more before the scheme closes later this month. On average how many cows were you calving between 2016 and 2021?

Alibaba

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586599#Comment_120586599

Yeah once you have those percentages on them dates you are OK.

You can do what you like the following week (s)

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588058#Comment_120588058

I only got going back into sucklers in 2020. I had two in 17, one in 18, one in 19, five in 20, nine in 21, fifteen in 22 and so far this year I've fifteen on the ground with another seven cows to calve.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599583#Comment_120599583

The ref no is based on the average of the best three years between 16-21 so your ref figure should be five i think. I thought I read somewhere that new entrants with more cows since 2021 can get additional quota based on your current numbers. Hopefully your advisor or maybe the department will advise you.

tanko

I see that the genotyping self selection is available on ICBF now.

ABitofsense

I see the self selection for genotyping is on the SCEP part online now. It has 10 up for me (reference no 15) to do even though I have 6 done this year already. So i rang them to see do I only need to do 4 additional now. They said as the ones I have done were done privately and not through the scheme they don't count unless I was in previous BDGP scheme. Balls that TBH

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600399#Comment_120600399

Have you got 10 left to tag now?

ABitofsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600495#Comment_120600495

Yeah will be 10 separate ones to the ones I've already done.

Anto_Meath

Thanks @tanko, picked my cows there now just changed 1 from a mad heifer that will be heading for the hook even though she is 5 star so hopefully won't be around next October.

I see there is alot more information to be filled in on the cows now regarding there milk and their feet..

Hopefully they will send out the tags now soon.

Jack C

I see you can defer your selection till july 31st, which I think I'll do as I want to buy in a few heifers and test them instead of some of mine that definitely won't be 4/5 *. Will that delay the results though.

trg

We've a handful of high star yearling HEX heifers bought from dairy farm....icbf saying they're not eligible.....is it down to breeding? I thought Hereford be ok

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612828#Comment_120612828

Heifers have to be at least sixteen months old and genotyped 4/5 star to be eligible, they may be eligible on October 31st this year yet.

Lime Tree Farm

check ICBF under "view profiles", then on the "Beef" column, it has the "scep eligibility" tab. You might get a better result there, I did.

ABitofsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612828#Comment_120612828

Their not eligible till genotyped and as Tanko over 16mths at end of October

tanko

Today is the last day for applying for SCEP without getting a penalty for a late application.

Base price

Suckler farmers could have to pay up to €20 per head for genotyping calves with ICBF while dairy farmers will only have to pay €4 to €6 per head.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/suckler-farmers-kick-over-genotyping-charges-765535

ABitofsense

If one of my cows calve in July this (my last one, PD LM) but in June next year, does she get included twice for 01-Jul-23 to 30-Jun-24 reference?

Base price

..

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/over-20000-suckler-farmers-apply-to-scep-before-deadline/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3QBF7HkRDrhiAfJJUxsbISji1Uyh5mz5F03Abu5r9kmlH8gq2jyZQ5NY0#Echobox=1684854452

trg

Not related to thread but it is indirectly related......does anyone here use sensehub for beef?

Any idea of cost or other feedback?

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573395#Comment_120573395

Went to Athenry Newford Farm open day to see suckler herd comprised totally of 1st cross dairy-beef cows. Cows are culled if any problems occur regarding udder/elder or "bottle" teats. Replacement rate is quite high anyway ( in 2022 they culled 26 cows - 8 for TB -with an average age of 75 mths which is just over 6 years)

Interesting to see, remind you of more intensive dairy farm than typical suckler farm. All replacements are bought as calves and reared on farm, which probably helps as they are quieter for herding with it being 100% AI. No replacements bred on farm so all terminal sires can be used ( with low calving difficulty for heifers)

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638039#Comment_120638039

What you think of the progeny?

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638203#Comment_120638203

A little butty I thought, average grade up was given R= which was about right. Meant to ask as they are trying to finish earlier why they didn't leave males as bulls. Easier to get to correct fat score at young age alright

Amateur Farmer

I am seriously thinking of withdrawing from SCEP, I was just going through some of the replacement index figures for a some heifers i have retained. There is one example of a rapidly falling figure that is particularly annoying me. It is a Whitecliff Orwell heifer that is a second calf from a charolais cross cow. Earlier in the spring she had a replacement index of 107 (4 star) and now she is 94 (3 star) her traits are as follows:

Docility: 0.13 (all breed average: 0.02)

Daughter Calving difficulty: 4.57% (all breed average: 5.32%)

Daughter Milk: 3.25kg (all breed avg: 2.54kg)

Daughter Calving Int: -1.25days (all breed avg: -0.88days)

What is bugging the hell out of me is that she is well ahead of the national herd on all of the key traits that you would look for in a replacement heifer. She has no fresian or dairy breeding whatsoever in her and I am wondering am I completely paranoid in thinking that maybe because of this that her size may come against her, even though she is a very normal sized heifer (she was 272kg at 204 days).

I am a big fan of the genomic work that is being carried out by the ICBF and I do think that the information it provides can benefit breeding top quality cattle in the long term - as long as it is used correctly.

My real concern is that if I stay in SCEP and I breed quality functional and fit for purpose replacements for the herd am I doomed before I even start because the parameters that define 4* and 5* are set using percentiles which basically means that the angus heifers out of the fresian cow is always going to occupy a top percentile position with her size and milk elevating her up the ladder.

Look down the road and with the increased usage of sexed semen in the dairy herd there is obviously going to be an abundance of beef heifers out of dairy cows being bred and they are going to raise the cut off values for 4 and 5 star levels at a serious level in the next couple of years. The reality of these heifers is that a large percentage of them will never enter the sucker herd. All they are going to do is push down the figures of the actual suckler cow - where is the suckler cow going to fit in then.... is she going to be a 3 star at best???

In my opinion the percentiles that define the star rating cut off values that are used for SCEP should be set by suckler cows that have bred a calf to a beef sire. In other words for a cow to have 5 stars it means that she is in the top 20% of the actual active suckler cows in the country, this will allow the suckler farmer to stay improving the genetics in his herd in a relevant manner because he will be comparing like for like. I see that the active bull list for AI sires has been modified to distinguish "proven bulls", there's no reason that cows couldn't be treated the same. Proven cows for use within SCEP and a full list for those who require that information for choosing replacements etc.

manjou

If the cow was eligible when bought ir genotyped 5 star she stays eligible. You could do what I am going to do and that is reduce by 20% each year if I have to to keep within the rules at least then I will get good money for beginning of scheme and when you average it over the 5 years you will get its still handy money.

Anto_Meath

I don't get to focused on stars. I see my father in law has changed nearly all his cows to SMX cows to chase 5 star. He killed cattle this week, he was disappointed with his grades and weights. I have always found simmental cattle kill watery.

I always plan to calf around 20 cows, (I have 19 for ref) I am fine for stars. Bit disappointed that some of what I would class as better cows are down at 1 & 2 stars. But between store heifers and cull cows & the a few extra calved cows (going to up my cow numbers to 24/5) I will be able to keep my 1 & 2 star cows as they are producing top quality cattle.

Sure even the slides we seen from ICBF showed the weanling from 1 star cows were realising as good if not better market price to the 5 star cows calves.

anthony500_1

Hi all, just picked my preference for reference no of cows to be gene typed. Only have 6 to do, and only switched out one that didn't clean right after calfing and I don't think she will go back in calf before I pull the bull from them.. I was not in bdgp, so sorry if this is a dumb question that I should know, but what happens now in relation to getting the tissue sample tags? I use mullinahone so do I just ring them up or do I have to wait for the dept to contact me or what happens next ???

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669952#Comment_120669952

The tags for samples will be sent to you

anthony500_1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669966#Comment_120669966

Perfect thanks for the fast reply. Much appreciated

Thekeencyclist

I have to Genotype 8 here. I have one who never calved before as I AI'd her and she never held (and of course I moved her to some pasture with 2 others away from the main herd without scanning her - ya know the luck of the draw after that!). Anyway she is due in a months time.

Her mother is down as 4* on the Eligibility Report but as Non Genotyped. (ICBF have the mother selected for Genotyping)

Should I deselect one of the 8 that ICBF has selected and perhaps select the above mentioned cow for genotyping OR will the results of the mothers Genotying possibly increase her stars by default?? The sire has never been logged on ICBF so right now she shows as having 0 *'s

Hard Knocks

Anyone get any tags /cards yet?