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SCEP Scheme

  • 08-05-2023 4:16pm
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭

    Hi All,

    Excuse my lack of knowledge here as I wasnt in the BDGP scheme but am considering joining the SCEP scheme.

    At the moment 50% of my reference # meet the requirement for joining the scheme etc. This figure is based off of the following:

    • 8.3% of the 50% is on a Genotyped Evaluation
    • The remainder is based on reviewing the Euro Star Replacement rating on ICBF as these animals were never genotyped but are rated as been 4/5 star.

    My question is, because these animals are in my herd already, can the star rating change on them even if i am request to do a genotype test on them??

    I see there is one rule, that the star rating may change over time but this doesnt impact existing BDGP members but as a new entry will the non genotyped amimals mentioned be impacted by this rule.




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,202 ✭✭✭tanko

    Yeah, the star rating can change when they’re genotyped, they could go up or down but most will stay much the same imo. You’re borderline at 50% 4/5 star for October 31st this year, you’d need to be a bit higher for comfort really, it’s 65% in 2025 and 75% in 2027.

  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Thekeencyclist

    Yeah i'm guessing I could join in the meantime and see what happens with the existing stock with regards the stars. I generally buy in 3 or 4 weanling heifers every year anyway and keep them until 2 yr old or optionally as a replacement when needed. It wouldnt be a big deal to keep an eye out for 4/5 star heifers (ideally as replacements) when looking to get to the 65% and 75% in future years. The Bord Bia Inspection would be the big Question Mark..... LOL

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,059 ✭✭✭✭whelan2

    We went to sign up today and our reference number is 1 cow. Our sucklers were in my dads herd number for bdgp . We now have 18 suckler cows in our partnership herd number - son and I- and were not eligible for scep.

  • Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭anthony500_1

    That's a

    That's a pure balls, is there any way of requesting to up your numbers through the dafm???

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,059 ✭✭✭✭whelan2

    Teagasc man sent an email about it a few weeks ago , no reply. I thought there might be a new entrant clause or something.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,731 ✭✭✭893bet

    I thought there was new entrant clauses but if you had one maybe you are screwed that way?

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,059 ✭✭✭✭whelan2

    I don't know were the 1 came from as it says we had 1 in 2017. I'd no sucklers in my herd number then.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,609 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm

    I think the year is from 1 July to 30 June following year

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭minerleague

    Most of my cows are 1 & 2 star according to letter I got from ICBF. Some dairy bred store heifers I bought are 4 & 5 star (without ever having a calf) simply because someone decided that extra milk is so important. Made the point here before that sucklers with too much milk are often more work after they have 3 or 4 calves ( mastitis, calves finding it harder to get first drink themselves ) Tullamore farm were going to have all cows 1st cross dairy animals but I think they have moved away from that ( unsure ? ) To compound my star rating issue I bought 6 sim heifers 2 years ago ( owned by a "horsey" crowd and poorly done so came good value ), put 3 incalf but on letter it says "no sire registered" so no stars of any kind! Wont be joining, should leave more in the pot for everyone else

  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭Ladeeen

    I had the same issue with x3 bought in FR X HE heifers I put in calf, once I genotyped them they got their stars.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,123 ✭✭✭✭Base price

    I would try phoning them directly although with DAFM you maybe waiting ages for the phone to answer. It doesn't seem fair in your case for the situation that you and your son are now in.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭minerleague

    Thanks, was thinking since that might be the case

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,609 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm

    Now I am more sceptical than ever. I was shocked when I printed out the latest eligibility report to see some of the 5 star genomic tested cows dropped to 3 stars. I logged on to see previous evaluation history. The history has been wiped, it's now starting May 2022, and the cow showing 3 stars since May 22. When I looked up my filed eligibility reports, one that I had printed in June 2022 they were 5 stars in June 22, even though they are now claiming they were evaluated as 3 stars in May 2022.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭limo_100

    Hi I am a new entrant with a different herd number and I was able to select my own reference number which I picked at 25cows, however I am not sure I will get that as I wont get to 25cows this year so not sure if the 25 will be my reference or if it will be the number that I have calved on 30 June this year.

  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭Jack C

    You only have to calve down 50% of your ref number each year 1st july -30th june ... in your case 13. At least 80% of these calves must be sired by a 4 or 5 star bull. This rises to 85% in year 3 and 4 and 90% in year 5.

    By October 31st 2023 you'll have to have 13(again 50% of ref num) eligible females. These can be made up either of your cows or heifers over 16 months but they must be genotyped 4 or 5 star on the replacement index. This figure rises to 65% in 2025 and 75% by oct 2027.

    Also you must genotype test 70% of your ref num each year. These can be calves.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭Jb1989

    He may only have to calve down 12 instead of 13 cows, as an expert mentioned, they were thinking of rounding the 50 percent of reference number downways.

    And for the genotyping of your own calves, you'd be right be suposed to calveing 17 odd cows to have 70 percent genotyping animals, otherwise you'll have to buy in non tagged cattle to genotype.

  • Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Alibaba

    Anyone know how many animals have to be weighed each year ?

    Is it 80% of the yearly reference number or 80% of the amount of calves born in the herd.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,202 ✭✭✭tanko

    80% of the number of calves born in the herd if number of calves born is less or equal to yearly ref number.

    if more calves than your yearly ref no are born it’s 80% of the yearly ref no to be weighed.

    if your yearly ref no is 10 and you have 5 calves you weigh 4, if you have 10 born you weigh 8, if you have 20 born you weigh 8.

  • Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Alibaba

    Thanks tanko.

    I was thinking the same thing but looking at the Programme Action Penalty Schedule number 4 of the t & c it says...... so not sure if its me taking it up wrong but heres what it says ,

    Level of compliance and sanction as following...

    Weight recording / Less than 80% of the cow/calf pairs of the yearly reference number validly weighed in any scheme year = No payment for weight recording plus an additional 10% penalty for year in which breach occurs.

    So that looks like 80% of the yearly reference to be weighed..

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,202 ✭✭✭tanko

    If you only have to calve 50% of your yearly reference number how can you weigh 80%. That penalty bit is badly worded, it doesn’t make sense, it’s wrong afaik.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Alibaba

    Yeah I'd say you're probably right alright.

    Whoever worded that made a ba##ls of it. Civil servants 🙄

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭Jb1989

    A bit like you can calve 50 percent but need to genotype 70 percent.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,202 ✭✭✭tanko

    If you look at the terms and conditions on the departments website under Action 4 weighing it clearly says that if your yearly reference number is ten and you calve five cows you only need to weigh 4 cow and calf pairs.

  • Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Alibaba

    50% of your ref is the minimum number of cows you have to calve down , fall below that in any year and you're out of it ! + They look for all moneys back.

    70% genotyping can be cows , heifer calves or even bulls so there's a difference there.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭Jb1989

    I'm OK but other farmer's keeping the minimum amount, have to watch their figures. I was in bdgp and have nearly all genotyped, so haven't many spares left, but I'll scrape by as always. . Just be nice in an ideal world if the percentages of every action just matched.

  • Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Alibaba

    It certainly does. But the penalty explanation appears to contradict that.

    I'd say just a case of bad wording alright.

    They seem have the whole scheme slightly over complicated , could have made it a bit simpler.

    Then again some people have to justify their jobs !!

  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭Jack C

    Another question.. It says that you have to have 50% of ref num genotyped 4 or 5 star by Oct 31st in 2023 and rising to 65% in 2025 and 75% in 2027.

    Is it just for on that date and is it ok if you drop below during the rest of the year.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,418 ✭✭✭Jb1989

    Genotyping has to be done few month in advance for the lab to anyalise the results, so tags need be away mid summer at latest for Oct 31st deadline. This year being an exception tho with the slow start.

    But yes you'd be alright for a few months after the October deadline with out the genotyped stock.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,123 ✭✭✭✭Base price

    I was talking to a neighbour who is a suckler farmer and he reckons I should enter this scheme. We haven't been in any of the previous suckler schemes. When I logged onto Agfood it says that I have 3 reference animals yet when I look at ICBF there are 70 animals but only 4 showing as eligible including this years calves although non are genotyped. On Agfood it says that you cannot set your reference number more than your average reference number which is 3.

    So my question is - can I avail of this scheme as a new entrant with more than 3 animals as it wouldn't be worth my while or is the scheme only catering for suckler herds that were in previous schemes.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,609 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm

    The stars began to shine again today. I checked the ICBF "scep eligibility" tab "beef section" under the "view profiles" tab, - all the original 4 & 5 stars are there with a "yes" "eligible for scep". That tab suits me fine..