Media silence over Niall Collins story

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518987#Comment_120518987

The irony of it all being that after decrying the legacy media, they have now published an account in far more detail than the Ditch bothered with.

It also certainly seems to alleviate concerns about how the sale was handled, if not removing them completely. Or maybe the state engineer was in on the crime as well...

jmcc

Think it was H.L Mencken that said that Jounalism is to politician as dog is to lamppost. The one thing on which FFG and Labour could rely was the servile nature of the Irish media.

It is no surprise to see the reaction of these people when an FFG politician is under pressure. The Ditch has done a lot in its short existence to uncover corruption and wrongdoing by politicians and this has upset a lot of those who would prefer that it didn't. Worse than that, for the media, is that it is getting the stories and all the other media, when they finally bother to cover these stories, have to credit The Ditch. While the legacy media, politicians and their supporters are upset, people are able to instantly read stories in The Ditch that would not be covered by the legacy media.

The sleaziness of what has emerged about politicians has damaged FFG. It is also going to have a knock-on effect on support for FFG politicians in that it may give voters a moment of pause in the ballot box during which they may change their vote. FG is already on 15% in the latest B&A poll. This story about Collins is damaging for FF. There's a RedC poll due this weekend and though FF was on 15% in the March 2023 RedC poll, there will be a lot of concern in FFG over whether this Collins story will cause FF support to drop below that.

Regards...jmcc

Cluedo Monopoly

Collins going to make a statement in the Dail but not answer any questions (as per usual).

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519254#Comment_120519254

The doubling down on this is absolutely bizarre, and also the conspiracy theory-esque notion that mainstream media doesn't cover political scandal.

The Ditch broke a story. The Ditch deliberately omitted details that watered down their story (they also published council minutes that effectively ended the original line they were taking with this story). Read the Irish Times article today, because it highlights very starkly the difference between real journalism and blog writing. The Irish Times article lays out ALL of the facts and clarifies details, it turns out this story is nowhere near as juicy as you would think if you got your news solely from The Ditch.

We went from Niall Collins committed a crime, to Niall Collins committing no crime, but the goalposts now shift to a moral issue rather than a legal one as the facts inconveniently got in the way. We went from Niall Collins voting to sell this land to his wife, to Niall Collins being present at a council meeting where a proposal was put forward and seconded to sell this land on the open market. We have gone from the suggestion that the land was sold on the sly, screwing the taxpayer out of money, to the land being sold transparently and the council obtaining the best price. We have discovered that the senior engineer on Limerick council made the recommendation to sell to Niall Collins wife as she was the highest bidder, and this sale went through a year after the decision to sell the land, and after Collins had left the council.

And the worst thing is? ALL of this information is from the documents that The Ditch used to write their story.

People are happy to overlook misleading and inaccurate reporting because this misleading and inaccurate information is damaging for people they do not like. Stick it on Twitter and get an army of bots to promote it. It doesn't really matter if the story is completely true and accurate, the existence of the story is enough to put doubt in people's minds and sure if you're having to explain yourself you're already losing. Apparently, this is "real journalism".

This behaviour is Trump-esque. Publish "alternative / partial facts", and then criticise the media when they perform due diligence rather than rowing in behind without question. More and more of this is creeping into Irish political discourse unfortunately.

Of course, those who enjoy this narrative will take The Ditch's view without question, as this thread proves, despite the fact that as more information comes out the actual story here appears to change.

I have huge issue with media like the Ditch and it's approach to reporting, particularly when it's funding (past and present) is also taken into account, as well as the motivation of both current and previous management. As should anyone interested in having a press that can effectively hold politicians to account.

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518177#Comment_120518177

It's the definition of pecuniary interest. I don't define these terms myself.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519874#Comment_120519874

at the time of the vote, it most definitely wasn't a pecuniary interest as the lands had not been purchased yet.

once it came onto the open market, it was fair game

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519685#Comment_120519685

FFS pointless really

sydthebeat

https://www.thejournal.ie/niall-collins-coalition-leaders-support-should-recuse-2-6052632-Apr2023/

....

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519685#Comment_120519685

You would think with everything being above board and no wrong done that Collins would gladly take questions to clear it all up? All this does is make it look like he is hiding, will he do what he did in his last statement to the house and sneak in towards the end of the day, make a statement for 2 minutes and then walk out?

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519904#Comment_120519904

I don't agree

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520033#Comment_120520033

You don't agree because you want to see something that's not there.

You have an appetite to see a political scalp off the back of a misleading story peddled by an outlet with an axe to grind, and Twitter yahoos that don't want to understand the law.

Niall Collins won't be on the Irish Mount Rushmore as a great statesman, I have no particular love for him or his party. But the law was not broken and nothing particularly underhanded took place. You and every other person reading this were as free to furnish a bid to purchase the land as Collins' partner.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520071#Comment_120520071

Yea exactly.

I think people are confusing his wife being interested in buying that land with having a legal interest in it. They are different things.

Collins didn't object to selling the land, land that we now know had multiple interested buyers (i.e. not just Collins wife). Nor did he recuse himself from the meeting.

He had no bearing at all on who it was ultimately sold to, and he had no bearing at all on how much it was sold for. It was sold on the open market, anyone could have bid, and the documents prove that the best possible price was sought.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520193#Comment_120520193

Nail, head.

Some people can't understand the distinction between "I have an interest in buying" with "I have a material interest in that land"

JP Liz V1

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1650861700537802752

Independents are just really FFG

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520033#Comment_120520033

You don't need to agree or disagree.

It's simply a factual statement

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520250#Comment_120520250

Welcome to the world of democratic government building

gmisk

https://twitter.com/ciananbrennan/status/1650787625144385537?t=v4XzbWPHOpI_l-fMIeXx3Q&s=19

Some more interesting details.

JP Liz V1

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1650620005740867609

..

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520259#Comment_120520259

There's not really much interesting here.

It is still clear that Niall Collins had absolutely no impact on who bought this land what they paid for it. It is still clear, given the facts that have emerged, that even if Niall Collins had recused himself from that LEA meeting in 2007 that the end result would have been the same.

Would the optics be better if Collins had recused himself? Probably. But his presence there was inconsequential.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520297#Comment_120520297

IF he had of recused himself, we would not be talking about this.

His partner asked a solicitor to send in an inquiry for a piece of land as she wants to build a medical centre. I am 99% certain she would have talked to her future husband about that, who happens to be a councillor.

The council vote to sell the land. It's passed by 9 votes. It would have passed had he recused himself, so why didn't he? There's no way he didn't know his wife was interested in buying it.

She then bought the land, after a few bids (of which there's no written evidence of) and then, decided to turn it into 5 2bedroom dwellings, instead of the medical centre she initially applied under.

I fail to understand how it is difficult to grasp that he should have recused himself, and we would be nonne the wiser and his wife would have developed the land as she did.

But let's talk about Russia or something 🙄

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520297#Comment_120520297

That's a tweet from an Irish Examiner journalist. He thinks that it is interesting. You and others might not consider The Ditch to be "real media" but it has encouraged other journalists to start digging. Something that people with no journalistic experience don't understand is that journalists and the rest of the media act like a pack when there's a potential story to be uncovered. That's what you are seeing now. The Ditch may get the credit for breaking the initial story but the legacy media will try to get in on it if they see its potential.

Regards...jmcc

elperello

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cmlwmdzky44o

Ditch quoted by BBC no less.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520352#Comment_120520352

Something that people with no journalistic experience don't understand is that journalists and the rest of the media act like a pack when there's a potential story to be uncovered. 

Really? All we've heard since The Ditch broke this is that the MSM is doing nothing. This narrative seems to change as often as this story does!

The other media is covering it. You will note (or maybe you won't) the difference between their coverage and the story as broken by The Ditch. The Irish Times article today was particularly good, as it laid out all the facts, though I think those hoping for a massive scandal will be disappointed after reading it.

I do note though that we're now at the "this story has potential" stage. We've gone from criminal -> moral issue -> bad optics -> potentially a story.

This saga, and this thread, is a great example of the dangers of media with low editorial standards. For example, how many people out there still think Niall Collins voted to sell public land to his wife?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520346#Comment_120520346

It's passed by 9 votes. It would have passed had he recused himself,

A quote that sums up the absurdity of this all quite succinctly.

Had Niall Collins recused himself, nothing would have changed because his presence at that meeting was completely inconsequential. He had no impact on who bought this land, and he had no impact on how much they paid. He was not involved in the sale of this land to his wife. This is absolutely clear at this stage.

It is great that we appear to have finally got to this point.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520394#Comment_120520394

Cool. So you can agree that he made a mistake and should have recused himself.

Fab

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520417#Comment_120520417

Has this ever been denied?

Should he have recused himself? Yes. But it’s a question of optics and optics alone. It is a minor issue.

Importantly, there was no corruption. The taxpayer was not cheated.

It is unfortunate that The Ditch decided to omit these important details from their report, all of this could have been clarified days ago.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520431#Comment_120520431

This is an important distinction. He probably should have recused himself, but he was under no obligation to do so.

So we've reached the point where the story is that he did something that has some bad optics and he is quite possibly not the brightest politician in the world.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520431#Comment_120520431

Bit of a stretch to say no corruption. His planning permission antics demonstrate that he is dodgy to the bone. To suggest there is nothing to see here or his wife’s activities did not benefit him could be naive I think. The whole episode reeks of corruption.

lizzyjane

I see the FFG bots are in overdrive on this thread with their "nothing to see here" rhetoric.

One poster even blamed Russia lol.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520469#Comment_120520469

He should have had a moral obligation to do so. And it seems a few people believe that to be the case.

I think a part of a politicians role should be that they are of good moral character.