The Sunday Game / GAAGO [Split from RTE thread]

roadmaster

I see GAAGo is making the headlines again over the 1/4 finals on Saturday not being free to air. I know i said in the past as a joke give them a saorview channell. But would it be possabile for the GAA to get a channell on the saorview platform to broadcast games or would the advertsing not be enoght to cover the costs and make a small profit?

icdg

That’s was always the deal with the football quarter finals though - Sky had two of them. It might have been a slight bit different when the Super 8s were a thing but it always was the case that the secondary holder got a share of them. It’s their last action of the season.

Saorview is a ridiculously expensive platform to go on. There’s a reason why VMTV isn’t in HD on it. The rate card is set up to ensure 2rn make money but it makes it difficult for anyone else to make money on it. Let alone a channel that would only be in operation for four months a year. And the GAA aren’t in the broadcasting business, they’d need RTE or another partner that way who’d want a cut of the revenue (as RTE takes from GAAGO). If they want the games to be FTA, they’d just sell the rights to an existing free to air station rather than go to all that trouble.

roadmaster

Its hard to know where they go with GAAGo. Taking the Mayo/Galway game of and putting it on rte 1 i think was a huge backing down.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771981#Comment_120771981

Hardly a huge backing down. The list at the start of the year referred to two preliminary quarter-finals being shown on GAAGo and none on RTE. GAAGo ended up with 3 and RTE got one so they both got an extra game each.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120782976#Comment_120782976

I taught when the fixture came out GAAGo was down to show it orginally and not rte but i could be wrong.

An today i see joe Brolly hoping on the Anti GAAGo band wagon over sarurdays games.

That RTE is involved in the running of GAA Go is yet another symptom of why the dual funding model that they operate under is wrong. As for their ability to cover extra GAA games, they don’t need extra capacity via Saorview. They could do it via their player and have extra online streams as needed. It’s what the BBC will be doing for Wimbledon next week, with most of the matches that aren’t on BBC1 or 2 being online only.

icdg

Unfortunately the likely, and ironic, consequence of all that we are seeing transpire is that commercial revenue will become more, not less important to RTE. But that’s for another thread.

As I feared, all these extra GAAGO games are creating an unrealistic expectation that all games be broadcast and there is a narrative out there that pines for the glory days of FTA. There were never any such glory days, I’m afraid.

Up until the early 1990s, only the men’s football and hurling All Ireland semi finals and finals were on TV. You wanted to watch a provincial match? Better go to the ground so, because that’s the only way you were seeing it live. There were some experimental live provincial matches from 1989 on but it was the mid-1990s before there was a weekly live game, and as recent as the 2000s before multiple live games were a thing. TV3 didn’t get involved as the first secondary rights holder until 2007.

Also, In its early years, the Sunday Game was the Sunday Game. As in it showed highlights of one game. Took a while for the wider selection of highlights to kick in, late 1980s.

So did this glory years of blanket FTA coverage ever exist? Arguably the only time that came close was the period TV3 were involved. Even then it was never the case that all Championship games were broadcast.

icdg

GAAGO’s season comes to an end with a cracking tie, but not sure why it quite needed the giant “Extra Time” graphic on the bottom right of the screen, stretching from the scorebar nearly all the way to the DOG. It’s a pity because whatever else you think of GAAGO, they’ve brought a marvellously fresh approach to the on-air presentation of games at a time when the Sunday Game is tired and looks it (and no RTE, applying a wierd lens effect to the opening titles isn’t a refresh).

For next season, RTE really need to take a long hard look at the Sunday Game and give it a good refresh. I know they might approach that with fear given the hugely negative reaction the 2004 refresh (the last major revamp) got but it really is time now.

Just don’t touch Jagerlatein again, if they’ve learnt any lessons from the last time!

sliabh 1956

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of Gaago why wasn't their a Saturday Game last night to show the highlights instead of cramming the four games into tonight's show. If they had a Highlights show each time a Gaago game was being shown that at least might appease those who are unable to view the games on Gaago.

icdg

That is a story in and of itself - the appearance, disappearance, reappeared, and second disappearance of the much vaunted second highlights show on a Saturday. Only six episodes of the Saturday Game aired in 13 weeks and despite some blurb from RTE about the amount of tier 1 games that needed to be scheduled to justify it, it was really unclear as to what the criteria for it to air was. There were some Saturdays with top tier games it didn’t air. I suspect that ratings may have played a part.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794134#Comment_120794134

I wonder do the GAANow highlights on social media affect ratings

roadmaster

Yesterday on the OTB paper review they had a nice rant about GAAGo and several journos yesterday in the sunday papers had a go. The GAA have said they will have a review at the end of the year. Its hard to know what will happen with the service

icdg

Nothing, for the duration of this rights period. It’s going nowhere for the next few years and will remain part of the landscape.

The thing is that by moving the intercounty season earlier in the year the GAA has lost its attraction to Sky. It no longer fills its purpose of keeping subs active during the FAPL off season. The secondary rights holders involvement ends now on the first weekend of July. That’s the rub really.

So what can the GAA do now. They have a contract with GAAGO for the duration of this rights period. They could mutually end it but I doubt the other shareholder RTE would be willing to do so without compensation of some sort. Even if they did do it then what? Sky’s still not interested. VMTV only want rights where they don’t have to do any work on the actual OB front. TG4 have lots of GAA and LGFA already.

roadmaster

I seen yesterday they where discussing GAAGO yet again this time on The Week in Politics. If GAA had gone in partnership to run gaago with either a streaming service or even virgin instead of rte would there be such fake outrage?

The partnership seams to be only year to year with a review due this year. If the GAA coped themselves on and moved the season back to the normal window could they do some sort of deal with sky to broadcast games on there two saorview channels?

toggle toes

Our amateur game is been commmerlised to fill the coffers of RTE and the grap all association. I had conversations with many hard core supporters who unfortunately don't have the financial means to subscribe to GAA GO. These are the people who supported their county all their lives and have travelled all over the country to support their county colours.

The majority of thse supporters were old age pensioners who worked all their lives and are now on measly pensions. These are the supporters RTE and the GAA have forgotten about. I hope supporters and volunteers who give up their time to help referee and organize games the length and breath of this country come out and say enough is enough. Maked our national game free to as many supporters as possible.

roadmaster

The Level of Sh1t that we will hear today from our elected reps will reach a new level. It will be interesting to see there reaction if anyone tells them what platform URCTV use

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0712/1394085-gaa-politics/

icdg

RTE and GAA before Oireachtas committee today on this:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0712/1394085-gaa-politics/

As I say, the unreasonable expectation of all games being FTA is now being bandied about. If GAAGO disappears, and there is no replacement, then the likelihood will be that there will be a chunk of early round championship games that won’t make it to TV at all.

Let’s recap as well on potential replacements

Sky - don’t want it now, season is too early. And not FTA.

VMTV - don’t want rights they have to do OB work on

TG4 - committed to LGFA this time of year, and other stuff besides.

Premier - same as VMTV, don’t want OB work, and aren’t FTA.

ebbsy

Problem for RTE today has come at the worst possible time.

Limerick / Clare was the most stupid idea to put behind a paywall. They were on the back foot right away after that.

roadmaster

Going by the figures released today is GAAGO a success or Failure?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/gaago-controversy-gaa-dg-says-lowest-viewed-games-on-service-have-between-1000-and-1500-viewers/a97976571.html

icdg

The difficulty is that every single game in the Munster Hurling Championship is a potential cracker. Do you put them all on RTE? And if you do, do you have to give Leinster parity? If so, that’s five slots gone, which is about the most RTE could show (and is probably two games too many for RTE tbh).

Do you then ignore football for the duration of the provincial hurling championships? That wouldn’t go down too well north of the M6.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842030#Comment_120842030

Looking at those figures you'd have to say its successful. The games that only get 1000 viewers just aren't attractive games for the neutral. If you put them on free to air TV they still wont be attractive.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842089#Comment_120842089

Yeah i taught the figures were not to bad. They seam to make it clear it would be staying for the duration of the current contract period.

I didnt know it is auto renewal as well. Did the Sky rep say they might add the GAAGO app to there platform?

One of the suggestions at todays Dail committee which discussed GAA Go was that they should copy the BBC and provide extra free to access streams like what was done at Wimbledon this year to cope with simultaneous matches. If RTE is providing the OB infrastructure for GAA Go, then it can use its player to do this IMO. Of course the player would need to be robust enough to cope with the extra capacity needed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5145g2y3g0o

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844094#Comment_120844094

Yeah but in that scenario, the BBC pay for the rights to the whole of Wimbledon. Its not comparable.

At present RTE pay the GAA for the rights to 31 championship games so that's what they show.

If RTE were willing to pay for extra games then maybe that suggestion would have some value. We know however that they're not.

In addition after weeks of the RTE controversy I don't think it would be a good use of the licence fee or any other income RTE have to be paying for extra games when someone else will show them.

The real problem here is that the GAA, as is their right, are monetising the rights to their games. It’s alright for <Mod: named person deleted> to monetise peoples love of GAA with a podcast or newspapers and TV companies to make money from GAA coverage but heaven forbid the GAA actually want to make some coin from their own product. Which is then reinvested in the game....

icdg

No comments on named persons who aren’t here to defend themselves please.

Bear in mind that RTE incurs all the production costs but gets zilch additional revenue from red button/Player streams. In fact it may actually end up reducing advertising revenue, because it damages ratings for the “front channel” (to use the old Sky expression) game.

These ideas get suggested like there’s no additional cost and the money will magically appear to cover them.

The BBC don’t have to worry about this because they don’t sell advertising, and have a license fee income of about £3.5 billion as opposed to RTE’s €200 million. That money is potentially significantly about to drop if people go through with threats to boycott the license fee and sponsors are going to be harder to come after recent events. The future RTE is going to be smaller, not larger, perhaps significantly so, and the idea that they’ll have resources to go out and cover multiple games with no additional advertising on a regular basis (outside, maybe, of the last day of the provincial hurling championship perhaps) is not going to be a thing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844197#Comment_120844197

It's at least partly comparable since RTE is a partner in GAA Go. I think the double charging accusation made at yesterdays Dail committee is valid. It's a consequence of what RTE is allowed to get away with under their dual funding way of doing things. At least when Sky had GAA rights you knew it was an entirely separate company.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844763#Comment_120844763

There isn't any double charging. RTE laid out the figures yesterday.

There has been an increase in the number of GAA matches they show free to air whilst the licence fee hasn't increased.

Double charging implies you are paying twice for the same product. You are not. If you pay the TV licence you get access to the bundle of games that have been purchased with those funds. If you pay for GAAGo you are buying access to a different bundle of games. Two different products.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120845326#Comment_120845326

Ok, strictly speaking its not double charging, but its still one body (RTE) earning income from two fundamentally different type of revenue streams. Sky wouldn’t be allowed to do this, so RTE shouldn’t either.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120846897#Comment_120846897

Sky have countless different revenue streams. I don't understand the point you are making.

icdg

Yeah, it’s a bit of an odd one. RTE have had three fundamentally different revenue streams since their inception - the tv license, advertising, and commercial revenue (CEL or whatever they call it now). Four once sponsorship was allowed.

I think there are plenty of reasons why RTE shouldn’t be involved in GAAGO mind, and the competition concerns are real and in my view serious. But “double taxation” is a false argument. Nobody is forced to pay for GAAGO at the point of committing a criminal offence if they don’t. They have other choices - not watching at all, watching the highlights on the Sunday Game, or even buying a ticket for the match! Nor are they being charged for something they have already paid for. These games are a separate package to the one RTE has used license fee money to pay for, and one presumes and hopes that RTE has not spent one penny of license fee payers money in GAAGO acquiring these rights (if they did, that is another significant problem in my view).