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Why I'll say no to a united ireland

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    #6602
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,254 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895141#Comment_121895141

    Their page is called 'STORIES' and I challenged you to find one that was about anyone other than a unionist/loyalist.



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    #6603
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭Suckler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895141#Comment_121895141

    You do realise the "stories" was from the FAIR webpage and how they entitled it.....Do you want them to change it based on your internet struggles?



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    #6604
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,254 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895160#Comment_121895160

    Of course he doesn't realize that. He has come with myth and perceptions and never properly looks at facts. He can then just pivot when it suits him to something else.



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    #6605
    Choochtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭Choochtown


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894362#Comment_121894362

    Edit.



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    #6606
    Miniegg
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895062#Comment_121895062

    I don't disagree, some iteration of the IRA (or violent opposition) will always be there to some degree as long as British rule exists on the island.

    Similarly, British misrule will also exist to some degree for the same reason. The inability to accept or admit wrongdoing ensures this.

    The greater the misrule or mistreatment, the greater the support and power for the IRA.

    But like you said, both things were a long time ago eh.

    Interesting that's the only part of my post you took issue with though....



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    #6607
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895160#Comment_121895160

    Yes, and they even call them ‘stories’, and francie can accept those stories as fact on this occasion as it suits him.



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    #6608
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895302#Comment_121895302

    I don’t know dates exactly but I wouldn’t call it ‘a long time ago’ when both police forces on this island confirmed the ongoing existence of PIRA



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    #6609
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,254 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895534#Comment_121895534

    Are you saying they may not have been killed by republicans?



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    #6610
    Miniegg
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895535#Comment_121895535

    Yes, and the British have last year changed the fundamental laws of western civilization re murder, in refusing to prosecute participants of British army massacres of unnarmed British citizens in northern Ireland, but you conveniently put their grave wrongs as a long time ago or belittle them for whatever petty reason you have.

    British atrocities are small on your mind for a reason, and until you acknowledge your own prejudice, you look very foolish bashing republican violence, which did not happen in a vacuum.



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    #6611
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭Suckler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895534#Comment_121895534

    Ok so you are challenging the validity of the accounts of these individuals whose family/friends etc. were murdered. That’s step 1.

    Step 2. Without knowing them individually, what evidence would you prefer? How would you like them to describe the account they give?



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    #6612
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894249#Comment_121894249

    Far be it for me me to defend FAIR , but FrancieBrady's hypocrisy is shown up yet again. He claim the youth club in Downpatrick is multicultural ( even though it is was set up by the Catholic Church in a town nearly all Catholic, and the club has Catholic clergy as trustees etc ) but yet he labels FAIR as loyalist. May I point out to him that Families Acting for Innocent Relatives (FAIR) is a non-governmental organisation founded in 1998 in Co Armagh, and it describes itself as a "non-sectarian, non-political organisation" that works "in the interests of the innocent victims of terrorism in South Armagh."

    He condemns FAIR, many of whose members had relatives killed by terrorists. I'm still waiting for him or any of the other Republican posters here ( maybe some have multiple accounts?) to condemn the beating up of the Dublin based journalist who innocently went to report on the planned FAIR parade in Dublin ( which was allowed and approved by the FF govt here, as it was a small peaceful parade ). As we know, Republicans rioted and beat up the journalist, calling him "an orange Bastard".



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    #6613
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,286 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895692#Comment_121895692

    The British are also refusing to prosecute PIRA members, I suppose you agree with that?



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    #6614
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893096#Comment_121893096

    It worked well in WW2 and during the 1956-1962 IRA border campaign. The vast majority of the Irish population supported the internment of the IRA then. There was no outcry or protests. There was no outcry even when DeValera executed some IRA in jail here in this country during WW2. No sympathy here worth talking about for the IRA then.

    But you thought it was wrong. Would you have preferred it if the IRA then (during WW2 and 1956-62 IRA border campaign) killed more and caused more explosions than they did ?

    Did you recognize this state during the troubles? What do you think of the Gardai / Irish army killed by Republicans?



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    #6615
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,286 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Pages and pages of rubbish, back and forth, all it tells us is that we are further away than ever from uniting all the people of this island.

    Some of the stuff is ludicrous. For all the good it does, and the enjoyment it provides, there is no disputing that the GAA is not a welcoming place for unionists, simple as that. Plain as the nose on your face, that is, yet some try to deny it.

    There was no need for the PIRA. What they did was evil, pure evil. Again, plain as the nose on your face, yet some deny it, post-hoc justifications do not hide the reality that at the time they were feared, resented and hated by their own community. Some express surprise that 20% of Catholics still support the union, that represents the legacy of the PIRA.



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    #6616
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895626#Comment_121895626

    Not at all, I would completely believe their stories. But you can’t jump around and accept stories sometimes, and want statistical surveyed facts at other times, when it suits you. You know rightly that I am just calling out your hypocrisy, which continues to damage discussions



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    #6617
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,254 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895948#Comment_121895948

    Not just me that condemns FAIR.

    They lost their funding with SEUPB saying that this was due to "major failures in the organisation's ability to adhere to the conditions associated with its funding allocation"

    It was not I that said they were 'Loyalists' that was somebody else. I said their victims list was exclusively unionist and challenged @downcow to show me one that was not a unionist. He seems to suggest their is something dodgy about the site. We await clarification on that.



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    #6618
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭Suckler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895998#Comment_121895998

    Are you purposefully misunderstanding/misrepresenting the “ justification of the IRA” from pointing out how/why paramilitary organisations inevitably come in to play in situations like Northern Ireland?

    IRA bad. Fingers in ears. The troubles summarised.



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    #6619
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895111#Comment_121895111

    I actually gave you links to the books / reports about the "ethnic cleansing" (as a lot would see it) along the border, FrancieBrady but you ignore the posts and never answer questions, so sometimes I wonder why I bother engaging with you.

    In Fermanagh and south Tyrone, there were 203 murders carried out in the 18 years between 1971 and 1989 alone, of which 178 were carried out by republicans. Of these, only 14 have resulted in successful convictions. It was in the 1990s that the term ethnic cleansing came into common usage. If you google "ethnic cleansing in Northern Ireland", you will see lots of books and studies about it.

    The United Nations has defined ethnic cleansing as “a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic, or religious, group from certain geographic areas”. You do not ask someone from those who done or sympathised with the "ethnic cleansing" if there was such a policy or not: you ask the community who suffered: and if you google it, you will see tens of thousands of reports that many people in Fermanagh and other border counties did think there was intimidation and an attempt at "ethnic cleansing" along the border.

    You are a SF supporter, and you have still to condemn the murder of protestant FG politician in Co. Monaghan and the burning of his girlfriend's family home and the placing of their family bible on the fire by the gang of 13 pIRA men. I am amazed you will still not condemn that as sectarianism : like Michelle you think there was "no alternative" and like Gerry you are not in to the politics of condemnation ( unless it is against the British of course).



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    #6620
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭Suckler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895948#Comment_121895948

    You still haven’t recanted your lies and your comments in relation to said journalist.

    You incorrectly qouted me yet cannot find the simple fortitude to correct your error, instead defend I answer questions that I never engaged with you on. How you think that’s normal discourse in an adult conversation is baffling.

    Your comments in relation to Charlie Bird are simply devoid of morality. Yet you won’t amend them.



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    #6621
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,286 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896089#Comment_121896089

    I could paraphrase your response as "Evil always finds a way".



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    #6622
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,286 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Getting back on topic and away from the tiresome tit-for-tat beloved of certain posters, here is an article and podcast about the economic cost of unification.

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2024/03/14/making-sense-of-the-ni-subvention-and-the-economics-of-reunification/

    "UI would impact the linkages between NI and GB, causing significant disruption, a negative shock. German unification was initially a shock for East Germany. There is the potential for convergence, but keep the German example in mind: lagging regions stay lagging, there would need to be a bit more investment. Regarding German unification: you can still see the old E-W border on coloured maps that show economic indicators (example here). Convergence seems to be a 50-year process."

    This stood out for me. 50 years!!!



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    #6623
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭Suckler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896116#Comment_121896116

    Unfortunately Yes it does. Especially when the powers that be give agency to said evil and allow it to flourish. NI isn’t alone in this, it’s unfolded similarly worldwide and continues to do so.



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    #6624
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896106#Comment_121896106

    Dunno what you are talking about, I did not tell any lies. The reference to poor Charlie Bird being beaten up and called "an Orange Bastard", by a mob of 3 on the main street of our capital city, was to show the hatred some people still have, and the tolerance there would be (from extremist Republicans) for "the Orange tradition" / Unionists in a U.I.

    We are a very very long way from a U.I.



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    #6625
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭Suckler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896139#Comment_121896139

    I quoted the reprehensible part of your post and you now “don’t know what I’m talking about” ….

    I quoted you multiple times on the nefarious lies posted by you misquoting me and “you don’t know what I’m talking about”

    Your morality gets lower every time you double down on your shear ignorance.

    @Francis McM Still unclear to you I see despite the spoon feeding....

    Post edited by Suckler on


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    #6626
    RoTelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121892357#Comment_121892357

    It's not even that.

    Devlin is not a nationalist, she a socialist internationalist. She's looking for a revolution and the nation state can have nothing to do with this.

    Has she any real support even from the nationalist community in the north?


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



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    #6627
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896128#Comment_121896128

    Good point. I remember meeting some west Germans 25 years ago, which was a good bit after "unification" there, and the West Germans were still complaining that the East Germans "wanted everything instantly" and were lazier than the west Germans and the East Germans did not realize they were supposed to pull themselves up by their own bootlaces as the West Germans (mostly) did after the war.



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    #6628
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭Suckler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896176#Comment_121896176

    ”Pull themselves up” ….. it’s easier to pull yourself up with the US backing you up compared to the Soviets watching you.



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    #6629
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,254 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896103#Comment_121896103

    I actually gave you links to the books / reports about the "ethnic cleansing" (as a lot would see it) along the border,

    Books without data are just anecdote or opinion.

    The 'census' is data.



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    #6630
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,286 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896132#Comment_121896132

    It was Shakespeare that said that the evil that men do lives after them, that is the true legacy of the PIRA.



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    #6631
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,254 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896128#Comment_121896128

    The comments on that already show the issues with the projections.



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