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There's a reason why this generation is "worse off" than their parents



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN

    Yeah, we had a tv ok. Think it was from Radio Rentals, so likely rented.

    Yes, we always had a car too.

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,253 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump

    All I will say by way of concession is that there is some truth to people being addicted to spending and this is perhaps a factor, but it cannot serve as a general explanation for people being worse off. That is only obscuring the big picture.

    The other side of it is that some people probably feel that there is "no point" denying themselves relatively small luxuries when what they are chasing is accelerating and moving away from them faster than they can save

    What is happening is that the savings for those those deflationary items are being sucked up by the inflationary ones. i.e. the ones who are on that ladder suck the benefit of the cheaper costs that those not on it are experiencing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,253 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump

    So those are perfectly normal things by our standards, but would not have been by standards 50 years previous to then. Their own grandparents probably would have felt they were spending frivolously in comparison.

    Even down to what they were buying. You were probably eating meat every day in your house growing up whereas 50 years previously, meat was probably only something you had a few times a week. The 70's equivalent of the dreaded avocado maybe?

    Point is that you can't compare historical standards of what people are spending on with today's standards.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,892 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    My grandparents houses are still in the family only modestly upgraded from when they were built.

    If many people had what their grandparents had in terms of their own roof and front door they would be content.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Count Dracula

    Women have much more options than 30-40 years ago, insofar as they can now compete for proper jobs and this will have an impact on the purchasing power of everyone in modern western democracies where it is considered appropriate.

    Women who sacrifice their maternal output, to instead work for a living, have a remarkable effect on both the jobs market and indeed the price of childcare. For every mother on a six figure salary there lies the sacrifice of a paid job a man could be doing, compounded by the € 18,000 pa expense of nursing the parentally neglected child with a stranger in a local nursery, along with 15 other neglected soon to be unloved brats.

    Compound this with the deficit of family values which single parenting acceptability has been allowed to tolerably enforce on everyone or anyone, who sees this as a potential negative impact on modern society and there you have it? In the meantime house prices soar and every single mother with 4 flumps she manufactured with potentially 4 different knobheads manage to take up media space complaining about how the gubbermint have made her life bereft and hopeless?

    Private companies find themselves the victim of constant allegations of not having fair maternity benefits. The reality is that 3 generations ago our biggest and most well known multinational actually enforced married women to retire their positions.

    I will probably get accused of being some sort of malign, sexist dope for stating the obvious here, most likely dovetailed with a severe ban or warning for having the audacity for saying it.... but it has made a remarkable difference in the employment market and how much it costs private employers to facilitate loss making employees, ask any of them?

    I am not saying women aren't good employees, I am not saying they are incapable of working either. But employed mothers cost private ( and public sector ) sector an astonishing amount of dead money which is to the detriment of businesses balance sheets everywhere. I am not lying, it is a considerable fact that is ignored for all the wrong reasons.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun

    I don't know about worse off. I'm sure I'd rather my life than my parent's, as unimpressive as it is. I think we take a lot of modern comforts for granted.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,892 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    You could just give men/partner the option of having the same benefits in the workplace facilitating women/partner to maintain their career if thats suits and is better financially for them.

    The issue is for a long time now it's not viable for the majority to have single income into a household.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Count Dracula

    It kind of gives more credence to my own totally viable point.

    If we were genuinely serious about supporting families we would give men equal paternity benefits.

    But we aren't serious about either, we just throw money at the issue and hope for the best.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,892 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    There's isn't the huge gap between "basic living" between the 70s and today. There were huge changes after WW1&2 in living and working standards.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,892 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    Your clothes in the past would have survived much longer. These days things are so cheaply made, so they won't last and you have to buy them more often.

    Even when something like a car last longer it's has forced obsolescence through parts or software.

    Should look at the tear down and repairability of the latest iPhone. It's horrific.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN

    There might also be an argument that the dual income house has driven prices upwards.

    Do you think if most households were still single income, that house prices would be where they are now?

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,638 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland

    The Boomer “mentality” has really grown in a large cohort of men, currently, in their 40’s, even some in their late 30’s.

    Lots of moaning about the younger generation not having a hard upbringing and not having to work from their early teens and balance education with that.

    Sad to see, really. Seems to stem from a jealousy of the youth having it a little “easier” growing up and delighting in the fact they are facing into an uncertain future.

    They, also, seem to have a hatred, and fear, about the “changing” world around them.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭fergiesfolly

    My grandparents scrimped and saved to buy a home. So did my parents. As did we.

    You're going back three generations across maybe 60+ years.

    And although standards of living improved immensely from one generation to the next, the one thing that didn't change was sacrifice.

    A house is a huge investment. The rest of your life was put on hold until that dream was achieved.

    I see the same today with any young person I know who's buying a house. Holidays, night's out, everything. If it's not a staple for living, it's not considered. Every spare euro is banked.

    The ones who aren't willing to do that are in my experience the ones who complain the most about the cost of buying their first home.

    Not a criticism on all of them, but I do think some younger people really don't understand the importance of budgeting or where their spending goes. Repayments on cars costing €20-30 thousand. Phone bills of €30-50 a month. Spending €10-15 a day in breakfasts, lunches, coffees. Netflix, Amazon, Spotify etc. It goes on and on. And they don't see these things as luxuries. These are staples to a lot of younger people.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,298 ✭✭✭✭Dav010

    My first giggle of the day, people in their 40’s fear and hate change.

  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun

    The availability of cheap credit probably has had something to do with people's inability to save or think sensibly about a mortgage.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭landofthetree

    How many of them go out and driver diggers? Or go blocklaying? Or drive a tower crane?

    They want men to go out and do these jobs for low wages so they can get a cheap property.

    We need to get women to work trades especially now as most young people are going to stay single.

  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭JizzBeans

    A lot of copium on this thread...

    Why do people keep comparing wages & mortgages now to that of 70's/80's?? Whats the point exactly? Ireland was a completely different then. Different infrastructure, society, workforce, financial institutions, global influence. Its not a proportional relationship. The only one responsible for increasing your wages is YOU. Thats what happens when you spend 4 years in college studying crap and then going traveling. You don't accumulate valuable experience.

    Secondly, the housing market ISN'T broken, its called supply & demand. Theres a difference. What about all people who have been able to buy houses in the last 2 years? Market worked for them. Why is it if YOU cant get a house its, FcUk tHe sYsTem, blame the government etc etc.

    Also, give it a rest with the "Boomer mentality" crap, its pathetic. Taking swipes at people more successful than you means you have no point. If you are that type of person, you deserve to be stuck in the mud.

    The unfortunate reality is, not everyone can have a house. You are not entitled to one, and nobody is obliged to provide. For whatever reason, you may not be worth the risk for banks or you didnt prioritise home ownership when it mattered.

  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭JizzBeans

    This is a very true! And I wouldn't even say young people. This is relevant for a lot of millennials too.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Count Dracula

    In fairness I do see many women working hard, hand tasked physical labour jobs that are underpaid. Go visit any textile or laundry facility and you will see the point I am making.

    I am not asking women to transform themselves into stonemasons overnight.

    But somewhere in between the argument of baby makers leaching the Balance Sheet and Female entrepreneur's lies a solid benchmark which all sexes need to focus on as a viable future.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,763 ✭✭✭growleaves

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭landofthetree

    There isn't a textile factory left in Ireland.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Oh the old high rates nonsense.

    You had low principal so any extra payment massively affected your remaining loan.

    Yeah you paid a lot in rates but as long as you paid off your principal loan you were sorted. What do you think is happening to kids with massive loans and rising rates.

    There's been wage stagnation for how long now, also, in real terms.

    Mr I Bought In The 90s here conveniently ignoring his massive take home hikes, in the 90s 00s

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Count Dracula

    There must be one?

    i said facility anyways.

    women have better attention to detail, that is true also.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭landofthetree

    A shortage of apprentices in the construction sector is in part due to a reluctance among younger people to “get out of bed for seven o’clock in the morning”, a manager in the engineering sector has said.

    Conor Gray, apprentice development manager at engineering contractor Mercury, said people were not applying to become electricians, plumbers and pipefitters at a time when they are sorely needed.

    “The hours that we work, a lot of our projects will start at seven in the morning. I’d be perfectly honest, there’s an awful lot of young people that don’t like getting out of the bed for seven o’clock in the morning and that’s just a fact,” he told The Irish Times. “About a month ago we put out an advertisement across all the social media platforms and everywhere else looking for 35 people and we got about two applications.”

    Boomers are people 59+ according to google. At least they got up early.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭TomTomTim

    The Boomer “mentality” has really grown in a large cohort of men, currently, in their 40’s, even some in their late 30’s.

    I must say, your ability to turn absolutely anything into an anti male tirade is impressive. All the same it's not healthy to harbour so much resentment.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,214 ✭✭✭✭markodaly

    This blame the government noise is getting so old now, cant open a newspaper, listen to the radio or watch TV without hearing about the gripes of this generation. Its always someone else's fault, banks, cuckoo funds, government, builders, landlords.

    The age-old avocado toast argument, usually trotted old by some old fart who thinks they and they alone are the sole reason that the house they bought in 1970 for 2,000 pounds is now worth 500,000 euros. They cannot look at the facts and data around house prices in relation to wages and income because if they did, they wouldn't be trotting out this nonsense.

    This is not an Irish problem, but a Western one, especially in the Anglo countries, of which Ireland is one. Ye the grey vote of the 'boomers' as some call them are some of the most ignorant and selfish one can find.

  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭JizzBeans

  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭JizzBeans

    Nope Im a millennial, bought in the last few years. I prioritised home ownership and increasing my salary for the last decade or so and market worked perfectly for me.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude

    I disagree with your post, but also agree with a minority of points.

    Number one disagreement is that you specifically mention about 50% of the population as at fault. Men. I'm sick and tired of getting the blame. I have done nothing to induce this apparent crisis. So do not include me in your monster catalogue.

    Number two adversity is not a bad thing. How on earth are you meant to appreciate the good times if you haven't experienced bad times. A poster earlier mentioned a person who never had to worry about dosh and became an "advocate". So hard to do in that situation.

    Number three back on topic. We all know the housing situation is fecked. I'm not going there. Have some consideration for parents. When I was growing up a Sunday was when I got dessert. A simple jelly and icecream, and I felt like a Prince. My parents were under a huge amount of pressure to just put food on the table. Now it's how do I afford an iPhone 70billion for my child for Christmas. Don't get me wrong. I'm not playing the beal bocht here. I had a great childhood.

    Now onto the youngsters.

    Number one access to information. Double edged sword. Love the internet...but the variety of nutters freely available is concerning. As one of you 40 somethings I can be discerning and scoff. I'm lucky my kids come to me.

    Number two again technology. Bullying or grief pretty much stopped at the school gates. Now...

    Number three a positive here. I love how much more confident they are. Society in general is more accepting. Love it. Challenge the auld pair! Excellent.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,214 ✭✭✭✭markodaly

    Why are you taking the extreme example and using it to paint a generation like that?

    When the most aspirational section of the generation coming through feels like they have little chance to own and buy a home, this has to tell you something.

    We are talking about the professional classes, people working in IT, Engineers, Public Sector workers like nurses or doctors or teachers, or Gardai. These are the people who would be regarded as the most aspirational, the people who don't really want handouts or giveaways but do want a chance to own their own home and have a family.

    It's clear there is a failure here and using the Avocado Toast argument or talking about rent prices 10 years ago just makes a fool out of those pushing forward these arguments.