Entitlements

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804076#Comment_121804076

You need to farm it yourself this year and claim entitlments for 24 and set up a grazing agreement for the rest of the year, then lease it next year on. Biss application has to be made by May 15th?? so July is way to late for anyone to use the entitlements except yourself for 2024.

Google Rental/Grazing Agreement (Nitrates Regulations)2023

that bring up the form you need

caddy16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804517#Comment_121804517

Fair play, really appreciate it.

Markus Antonius

I read through this entire thread but am still confused about a few things. Can anyone explain what the ECO entitlement is? From looking in the documentation it says the advisor selects one of 8 options on the land when making the application, but they don't elaborate on what these 8 options are! Do I need livestock in order to claim ECO entitlements?

I have 90 hectares (mostly unused commonage) but I also have a full time job that has very short term but regular travel commitments. I buy in the spring and sell in the autumn but even at this, it's too much work for me to keep 7-8 head for 7 months of the year to claim the BISS. I would be happy to have them for 5 months when the land is hard and grass is growing and just have to move them between fields every few weeks.

Any suggestions on the least labor intensive but best entitlements? Could I get into bed with a neighbour and share a herd number or something in return for letting them use the land? Otherwise, I could just claim the ECO and forget about the BISS payment and keep 5 or 6 to eat the grass for 5 months?

Any tips would be appreciated!

Edit: Also I see there seems to be an extra generous entitlement for young farmers in the form of CISYF. I'm 32 so interested to know how this would work

Edit2: I found all the info I need on the ECO payments here. Looks like I don't need any livestock to claim. I think my original plan of just having 5-6 cattle to eat the grass for 5 months of the year seems very feasible now. Also means I wouldn't have to spread as much nitrogen. The BISS and ECO schemes almost contradict one another, one wants you to farm and the other doesn't 🤣

Dickie10

if your renting land without entitlements can you buy entitlements?

PoorFarmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879552#Comment_121879552

Can of course. Now is the time to be getting on to finding them. Got some through FDC last year. No charge to the purchaser. All costs borne by the seller

grass10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877791#Comment_121877791

If you have 90 hectares you should just let the land to someone else as it appears very clearly that you don't really have time to attend to animals as you refer to moving them every few weeks a lot can happen if your missing even 1 day. I would not advise any messing with other lads putting cattle in your herd or other dodgy deals as they only end up in arguments and the department catching you out I've heard of many lads getting caught out when trying various ways of getting around the rules

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880190#Comment_121880190

About 85 of those hectares is commonage on a mountainside that we don't put the cattle on anymore. The other 5 we graze. I'm not alone on the farm, and animals are monitored everyday. I just do the machine work and am not the "main worker" on the land, my mother owns it.

I would prefer to keep claiming the Eco payments but am not a fan of keeping the cattle for 7 months of the year as this would require some silage feeding etc. Ideal situation would be to surrender the BISS payment and only keep the cattle for a shorter period. Claim the Eco payment as we already meet the conditions for this.

I'll have to have a chat with the Ag advisor. Just wanted to see if another perspective here.

epfff

7 months is for ANC payment.

Bliss eco etc land just needs to be in agriculture use/ready to go into production if needed. (I always thought)

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880776#Comment_121880776

Could always get a few sheep to clean the place to make up the 7 months

Dickie10

so i am presuming buying entitlements means you add to your single farm payment? is it that simple? anyone able to just quickly explain in simple form

PoorFarmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882342#Comment_121882342

It really is that simple once you have bare land to add the entitlements to. I bought through an intermediary so I'm not too sure what's involved in that part. They were added to my BISS and I got a transfer code to accept them on Agfood more or less. I think it was that simple anyway.

It is also possible to rent entitlements if you think the land you are renting will be a short-term option. Same transfer required as above. Purchase of entitlements is not tax deductible but I think rental may well be, open to correction on this though

grass10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882342#Comment_121882342

If you have 10 biss entitlements already and they have a value of 200 each your total payment is 2000 euro but if you get an extra 10 hectares with no entitlements you can buy 10 entitlements to match the extra 10 hectares at say 200 each that will give you a total biss payment of 4000 this year

All entitlements values will be changed in value over the next 3 years to end up at an approx national average of 185 per entitlement, if you buy you'll pay maybe double the value of each entitlement so the first 2 years of payment your only getting your money back and also entitlements may totally disappear in 4 years time

Dickie10

so its not a good investment? what about the person your renting the land from? what do you need from them?

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883443#Comment_121883443

You also have to pay auctioneers fees+vat on fees. Also information your profit so it would take you nearer three years to get your money back

PoorFarmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885701#Comment_121885701

Bought some last year through FDC, all charges and fees were paid by the seller. Low value entitlements bought at 2.5 times value for land in a herd number with no entitlements. Due to the fact that I wouldn't have been able to claim ECO or CRISS on the land without them, they have already paid back for themselves bar the tax burden. Even with that 2 years and I'm 100% cleared, tax paid and all. I know that everybody's situation is different but to say it's a 3 year payback may not be totally accurate.

PoorFarmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884744#Comment_121884744

Don't really need anything from the person that you are renting the land from once they are not claiming on the area themselves. If that were the case I assume a rental agreement for the area claimed would be necessary for DAFM if there were to be an investigation. Usually if you are renting the entire farm that wouldn't be an issue. May be different if it is a cash-type deal for a few fields and they are still running a few cattle themselves. Any land entered in 2 different applications would immediately be red-flagged on the DAFM system.

Entitlements aren't tied to land parcels, once you have 1ha per entitlement every year then you are covered. It can be a different parcel of land every year if you wanted.

Dickie10

ah right , yeah im renting 30 acres i think the farmer already is claiming those entitlements so it would only work on land that either has no entitlements or has them and they are not being claimed? that must be very few so in that position id imagine? im only paying 170/acre because of no maps.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121886706#Comment_121886706

you don’t need entitlements to claim the biss or criss

grass10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121886706#Comment_121886706

Criss is only paid on the first 30 hectares in your application most lads renting land don't understand this fact also anc is only paid on the first approx 35 hectares if your land is eligible

Majority of extra land being rented by our large dairy farmers all they can claim is 67 per hectare eco money and biss money which in a lot of cases they have to either buy or lease entitlements to get this the sad thing is that speaking to many lads renting extra land they have no understanding of how payment system works

PoorFarmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121887637#Comment_121887637

I'm pretty sure you do. You need none to claim ANC but have to have at least one entitlement to claim the others. BISS up to the amount of entitlements you hold and CRISS and ECO on your total holding once it falls within the limits for CRISS and meets the requirements for ECO (space for nature etc.)

Open to re-education if I am mistaken

cj maxx

Is ‘24 a reference year?

grass10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121888092#Comment_121888092

A reference year for what ?

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121888299#Comment_121888299

I thought there was reference years , where it formed the basis of your SFP payment . Eg if you took a year out for , whatever reason , and it was a reference year you could lose them .

like wise if you expanded your entitlements might go up

grass10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121888371#Comment_121888371

Many farmers seem to have very little knowledge of where entitlements came from basically entitlements were based on the amount of cattle premiums, slaughter premiums etc drawn down by each herd number in the years 2000 2001,2002 and the total added together and then divided by 3 in addition dairy farmers got a lot of extra money added on based on I think 2006 milk supply of which the dairy men were told in advance this was going to happen whereas the 2000 to 2002 reference years was only announced in 2003

Their has never been any reference year since and probably never will be again as every indication is that in a number of years Their may be no entitlements

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121888865#Comment_121888865

I think there was another reference year around 2013/2014 where entitlement valve was based on what you claimed over a 2 year period. Some farmers stacked their entitlements and let rented land go

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121889137#Comment_121889137

Was that when the BPS came in and everyone got new entitlements. The total value was based on what you got the previous year while the number of entitlements was based on the number of hectares you submitted that year.

If you had 20 old entitlements worth €100 each and submitted 10 hectares in the 1st year of the BPS you got 10 new entitlements worth €200 each.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121889165#Comment_121889165

That’s it.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880776#Comment_121880776

I know where land is gone more or less wild, the owner has no animals on it, would it be worth my while to try and get the maps of these and draw the echo payment and put it in for national reserve and the young farmers scheme? No entitlements attached to the land

farmqi28

@grass10 What makes you think Entitlements might be scrapped after 2027?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121890350#Comment_121890350

It bot so much that they will be scrapped but that entitlements will be linked to land not the owner.

At present ECO and CRISS are no longer linked to the individual farmer bit to tge area farmed. The BISS portion is the only part you meed an entitlement for. Entitlement's will be nearly all the same value by 2027, so ot would be fairly easy to cease tge link to an individual and you payment would be linked to the land you submit for this payment.