Parental care - I just don't want to do it

Throwaway505

To keep the updates going - my mum is still improving, and is now able to mooch around Aldi using the trolley as a rudimentary walker, and although she still reports a bit of pain, is probably as good as she is going to get. This is a great relief, however various things and jobs and that that she used to do she is refusing to take back. She is tired all of the time, and unfortunately will never push herself. So both me and my dad are still struggling. She is using the zimmer frame - I don't think she'll ever really lose that now, and she admits herself that she is permanently in the way, and very slow to get out of it.

Things culminated a bit on Bank Holiday Monday (great) when I was outside hacking down a hedge. I could hear bits of the argument but some of it was confided in me, and my dad finally had the frustration of being a carer get the better of him. 9am that morning she had absolutely excoriated him before she even said Good Morning, as he woke her up at 230am getting out to pee. Apparently he turned the light on and made too much noise, and woke her up. She couldn't sleep for the rest of the night and woke up in a mood like thunder.

He tore her a bit of a new one later in the day telling her that he can't do any of his hobbies, or anything he wants to do, or visit his hamily because of all the housework and chores and everything extra he is having to do because of her. She said she hadn't been well enough, but he said that this was partly the case before she got sick. She was having none of it and it turned into quite the argument. I think, THINK he called her a huge burden and she now thinks she is absolutely useless and good for nothing. They've gotten over it since, but I guess these things will break out eventually.

I was away last weekend and got more than one text from them, one of which was "Your father wishes you were back here to help him out". This being the day he moved a whole load of concrete slabs in the heat and repotted a horse chestnut tree I've been looking after for years, killing it. That all said, the amount of physical work he can do at 76 is absolutely incredible. He can still out perform me in most things, although an accident soon will knock him back I'm sure. There was also idle chat about me having to give up my job one day to be a full time carer, I can say that I thoroughly shut that conversation down quickly.

Getting someone in to help with the garden or getting someone in to deep clean the house is absolutely, roundly, soundly rejected with a simple "NO" from him. That won't change so I'm pouring huge amounts of time into the garden and, when its raining, cleaning. My own hobbies aren't in tatters, but are getting precious little time. My new computer is sitting mostly idle and my new wetsuit isn't getting used as I can't spare the time or energy to go use it in the sea.

So things are improving health wise but not stress wise. I'm still not in the headspace for a lot of things, my hobbies are being neglected often to try to keep the garden in check, and to support him in his hobbies. And I go to work exhausted most Monday mornings after moving mounds of wood around!

Big Bag of Chips

Do you need to be moving mounds of wood? Did your father need to move concrete slabs? How much cleaning and housework do 3 adults generate that it has you all exhausted after doing it?

I think your home is reaching crisis point, but I also think you need to look at what is necessary to do, and what isn't. Do the necessary stuff and ignore the rest. Your parents are elderly, but not totally infirm. Your mother realises she is becoming slower and less able. She's entitled to feel down about that. If she was always a capable woman, and it sounds like your house was always very well kept, then it must be very difficult for her to come to terms with the fact that she is no longer able to do everything she once did, and to know that it is now lost forever and unlikely to return.

Frustrations, resentment and bitterness are all completely understandable emotions and outcomes on all your parts. It doesn't make it easy to live in though.

shesty

I am late to this discussion but I am having trouble with this sentence. .."That won't change so I'm pouring huge amounts of time into the garden and, when its raining, cleaning."

I have 3 kids under 9, a full time job (well, 4 days of the week at the moment, but 9-5), and a husband, and I do not spend every single spare second of my time cleaning.

You are 3 adults living in a house together, only 1 of you is working full time, yet you seem to be spending every spare second cleaning.

I'm genuinely lost here OP. What exactly are you cleaning?

The house itself here needs a good clean once a week - all the bathrooms, hoovering, dusting -and that's it here.Doing the house from top to bottom, with a good bit of tidying, would take 3 -4 hours. That's assuming no regular interruptions to break up fights, make snacks, clean up spills and the rest. Our house is quite clean, if not always tidy, because I hate the dirt, it has to be done once a week. Can the adults living with you not put their dishes away, and .... I don't know what other sort of a mess they might make during the day that might require you to clean up?

You're in a crap situation, I don't deny that. But equally, I'm bemused as to why so much cleaning seems to be going on. I'd start by saying you will do a full house clean once a week - a weekend morning or whenever suits you - and that's it.

The garden is much trickier. We have a huge garden and it requires a lot of maintenance too. My absolute here is that once a year a company come in and cut back everything, usually in October/November. It's a once off payment and makes things manageable for the following year.

But the bigger point here OP is that this is only going one way. I've seen it in my own family. And I'll be honest, I'm married to a man who has no siblings and I see the dynamic of him trying to reason with his own parents as they age - they've been the bosses all their lives, and they have huge trouble accepting that maybe he has to make some of the decisions now. The realisation is slowly dropping in as they get older - they are in their late 70s now. So things WILL change for you, but you will have to keep gently pressing that someone to help in the garden or the house would be useful/would be great for them/they'll be able to tell them exactly what they want/will be around while you're out/is what is happening in their friend X house.

Even if you DID give your job up to be a full time carer, you can't care for 2 elderly people full time by yourself. It is not possible. MAybe you've already done this, but I'd actually go to your GP and discuss what the options might be for caring or house help, look for advice as to how it might be gently introduced. I'd ask the PHN or GP too about what your parents options might be. You're not discussing them medically, you're looking for advice as to what they might be entitled to. I know you think things won't change, but at some point they will and it would be good for you to know the options and have the ducks in a row. You do have to stand up here -as I said I've seen it in my OH's family - because accepting it's their way or nothing is not viable, but it will require some push back from you. Not a row, just a few calm discussions to keep planting seeds about a cleaner or someone to mow a lawn once a month (your dad can do it the rest of the time) or similar. Enough to help but not take away all of the work from them. This is a gradual process, but you can't do it alone.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058286851/parental-care-i-just-dont-want-to-do-it

You're a man who has been well looked after by his parents and you're now concerned you might have to sacrifice a bit for there well being?

Time to step into your role and be a man and look after your parents start putting money away to afford what's coming and do your fuckin job and look after your parents and stop trying to rationalize dodging your responsibility its down right cowardly.

People like you make me sick looked after all your life and then cry when the time comes to repay the favor, be grateful your in a position to do so and cherish and time and moments you get with your folks. **** your feelings they're well being now comes first you can have your cry after but do your duty.

------------------------------------------------

@delusiondestroyer do not post in this thread again. And read The Forum Charter before posting anywhere in this forum.

victor8600

How about you moving out of your parents house and buy/rent a place nearby? This way you can have your own private life, while you can also allocate a set number of hours every week to look after your mother.

Princess Calla

What tasks is she refusing to do?

I too find the amount of housework generated by 3 adults baffling. I also don't understand how one person's tasks can't be absorbed by 2 other people.

It must be very hard for your mother to lose her independence and then be told she's a burden. It's likely she's depressed or at the very least feeling down, which might be why she's being slightly awkward. No one likes their body failing them.

I think the 3 of you need to sit down (maybe a fourth independent person joining would be no harm) and list all of the things that you (all of you) would like to do and what's important to each person. Then do up a rosta.

You keep talking about deep cleaning the house....I don't understand why that's overly necessary....how bad can the house have got in the space of time your mum has been sick , especially considering the amount of time you say you spend cleaning.

I think with a rosta everyone can put in what times they want to spend on their hobbies then work from there.

I know people especially of older generation that will , dust ,hoover, clean bathrooms wash floors every single day.... realistically that's overkill and if you're mother was one of them she will need to lower her standards.

Having said that giving the house a dust , hoover and bathrooms does only take about an hour so a compromise should be able to be made. If you feel each room needs a deep clean tackle one room at a time, depending what needs done , for the kitchen for example it might be Tuesday I'll tackle the food press, Thursday I'll sort the sort "the drawer" Saturday I'll wash down the cabinet doors ..... just spread the tasks out.

I've suggested this before but I think batch cooking would be helpful, that way you get from one day of "pain" a few dinners for everyone and would free up more time especially during the week. Plus the kitchen will only get messed up once rather than every night.

There's a lot of tasks that if you were living on your own you would have to do anyway.

I definitely think a rosta is the way to go until everyone adjusts to the new reality that your mum needs help both in her own care and in the delegation of the chores she has always done.

Then hopefully harmony will restore.

freshpopcorn

There are lots of ins and outs of looking after parents and opinions and they've being discussed.

Regarding the house tidy.

Was it always a little untidy or is it a new thing.

Our house has sometimes gotten out of control and my advice to you would be to stick on a series or podcast and get stuck into one room at a time. It's not the nicest situation bit very doable.

Hotblack Desiato

Seems OP is expected to help but at the same time isn't allowed to except in certain ways.

I think emigration would bring about a massive amount of cop-on among his parents, only needs to be for 2 or 3 years to bring matters to a head. Nobody ever asked to be born, I agreed to wipe my kids' arses but there is no obligation on them to do the same for me, that's a job for a professional.

Swaine

<Snip> Unnecessary.

Please read the forum charter in Personal Issues if you want to post in this forum.

- Big Bag of Chips

Formosa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314225#Comment_120314225

@Formosa post snipped. Read the Forum Charter.

- Big Bag of Chips

marilynrr

He tore her a bit of a new one later in the day telling her that he can't do any of his hobbies, or anything he wants to do, or visit his hamily because of all the housework and chores and everything extra he is having to do because of her. 

It's a good thing your dad is feeling some frustration now, time for some harsh truths, tell him that this is how he makes you feel by refusing outside help etc. Tell him he can be just as stubborn and frustrating and it's time to really start to plan for the future and to be getting some help in. Tell him that it's not all just your mother!

ILoveYourVibes

Who are you waiting for to give you permission to go on the 10 day trip??

Go.

I suspect your parents are not the gatekeeps you like to paint them as but in fact its yourself . Say no to your mother. Say you will visit her every second lunchtime. I suspect you wont though.

You need to become a get **** done type of person. Get some at home help.

And you have to choose between moving out and the tax break. And be honest with yourself. Is the money really worth it?

I think you have to be honest with yourself and admit the lifetyle you have led a holiday every month you said? Is way above your means and you only had it because you lived at home. Now that is fine if your parents were happy to have you. But is it REALLY that you can't afford to move out? Or is it just your lifestyle wouldnt be as flashy?

Try to imagine and plan out a happier future you. Seek tax advise on the inheritance situation.

Throwaway505

Hi all, six months almost to the day, thought I'd give you all a quick update. Whilst I don't reply to everyone of course, rest assured I do read all of these messages.

I'm still there, as you all probably guessed correctly.

The good news:

My mum made pretty much a full recovery from her fall. It took six months, maybe even a bit more, but she is back on her feet again. The six months it took for her to get better were awful for my dad and nearly broke him, but we're over that now.

The Alzheimers is slowly getting worse, thats inevitable really. She is still completely with us, but can only concentrate on one thing at once and need a bit more of an effort to respond back when you're talking to her. She's dealing with it ok, but she will not push herself in any way at all any more. The consultant told her to go out and walk. Everyday. She goes less than one in 30, despite great efforts. Its either too cold, too windy, too slippery, shes too tired, her hair would get wrecked, and any excuse. She just won't do it and won't advocate for her own health. She is also eating a bit too little, but won't push herself to eat any extra. I know this is a losing battle, but overall she is ok.

My dad had a fall a few months ago, one evening and banged his face so he has two nice scars now. It didn't need an A&E trip, just a few plasters from the GP, but if he'd fallen differently he'd have killed himself. It has shaken him. He now won't do anything in the garden without me around. The garden and the massive responsibility attached to getting it in order is now mine. Gardeners or outside help are not allowed and I do sort of enjoy clearing it, but it is an added stress.

In ok news, I had a short term relationship recently... she wasn't someone I'd stick with but it was fun for a while. Had we been a better match I'd have pushed it a bit further, but the reality of the streses in my life caused me to finish things sooner than I'd have anticipated.

Speaking of stresses....

The other day I have also find out that my aunt in the UK has appointed me Power of Attorney, starting in the new year. Apparently you can just appoint someone, I don't have to agree with it!!! Shes ok now, but its an added stress. I do feel I am losing control of my life but as I've said before, its really gone beyond the point where I can just pack it up and leave it for new shores. I'm basically in charge of three elderly people now 😂

Edit: I did go on the 10 day trip and I am managing to go abroad about every 6 weeks for a bit of a holiday (which is an escape to me). Its getting harder though, last time around there were texts from my mum about how my dad could have done with my help. She was terrified last time about me going away and I was told when I got home that neither of them really sleep while I am abroad. I know this is (likely unintentional) manipulation so I just ignore it, but some of it rubs off, with the very best will in the world. Complaining about the level of rubbish from them when I'm abroad gets the usual gaslighting and "We JUST want to know you're safe, just keep in touch, thats all we ask".

Cyrus

Sorry your situation sounds rough and you need to make sure your parents are taken care of but you also need to take responsibility for your own life and happiness.

from reading the posts you have a very suspicious opinion of potential partners , the older and more stuck in your ways you get the harder it’s going to be to meet someone , all relationships require compromise on both sides.

is the inheritance tax worth the misery of your life at the moment ?

get your folks some help, get yourself a house and get on with your life. You could turn around and be 50 and still in the same position.

JuliusCaesar

I've recently had a difficult conversation with my father who's getting increasingly frail at 92 about what he wants for end of life care. I'm afraid I had to be brutal with him about CPR for the elderly - he's been avoiding the topic for the last 10 years. My mother otoh told us all -she worked in clinical healthcare - that she'd rather we put a pillow over her head than live a non-life. I told him how CPR at his age would probably not work; if it did, he'd be left with multiple fractures and probably pneumonia. I said that my future wishes are clear. I was a nurse. I'll be saying, no antibiotics, no tube feeding, no extraordinary attempts to prolong my life, let me go when it's my time. My father's a typical old countryman and would rather die than speak directly of these things, which is why I had to be brutal to get him to talk about it. Isn't everyone's fear to ent up gaga, doubly incontinent, helpless, and not a fraction of the person you are?

I felt shite, but it was a conversation that needed to be had. I'm certainly relieved, even if I feel shite that I had to go into detail in such a brutal way with him. But I've seen families torn apart between the LetThemGo and LifeAtAllCosts, when the elderly person didn't make their wishes clear. And now at least, I know what his wishes are.

The Irish Cancer Society has a great section on their website about preparing for death, all the stuff that needs to be sorted out - financial, physical, future wishes. Go have a look. Wishing and hoping won't cut it.

For the Inheritance people, I don't think it makes a damn bit of difference whether an only child is living in the property or not.

notAMember

Mother of divine sorrows , what value is on this house? You’re the only child, it’s Ireland, which has a very generous tax free inheritance system, and the house is back of beyonds by the sounds of it. Take this typical example.

Example 1 : A son inherits a house valued at €415,000from a parent.

This is €80,000 over the Group A threshold of €335,000 .

Therefore the tax bill would be 33% of €80,000 which is  €26,400

It’s feck all, you’d be selling the house anyway. Live your life. Get home help in, get a gardener and forget about the flippen tax.

NSAman

Op I feel for you.

i have siblings and we know how hard it is with a few of us. Doing this single handed is very difficult.

you HAVE to be the parent now. You have to take charge. If you don’t, they will run rings around you.

Sorry dad but the garden is going to be done by someone. Sorry mam, there will be carers coming in. Sorry dad the house WILL have supports fitted by someone.

you have to lay down the law. You are their lifeline. You have to stand up for yourself, I know that’s not easy when dealing with parents but without you, what do they do?

I get the guilt, god I get that, but you have to have a life too. Someone has to take charge and that is YOU.

Pistachio19

You live there so you need to speak up and tell them that if you continue to live there, you will need someone to come in an help with the garden and housework. Tell them, don't ask and then go about organising the relevant people. As for power of attorney, tell your aunt that its not going to be possible and she needs to appoint someone else. Or if you have received notification via her solicitor, then write to them and tell them you are not in a position to do it. Nip it in the bud now. Don't just lie down and let them railroad you into tasks that are inevitably going to cause you added stress. You need to stand up for yourself.

Gael23

My 87 year old grandmother is in the last stage of dementia and yes looking at nursing homes does feel slightly like abandoning her in one sense, but she now needs a level of care that we as a family cannot provide. We also need to consider her welfare and the impact it would have on us trying to do it 24/7. It’s no longer just minding her like it was for years.

Something else that’s bothering me is that I’m pretty sure she won’t live too long in there but then it’s all about quality of remaining life I guess. And we can spend quality time with her rather then bent over backwards caring for her

Throwaway505

This thread has been very helpful and has given me plenty to think about and prioritise. Some good news and some bad news.

Bad news (get it out of the way):

Minor health issues -

My dad has has three minor health things recently. All to do with power tools. He got very very lucky with only minor injuries on all three, but as I told him (having carted him off to the VHI clinic on the weekend a while back) that he won't get so lucky forever. Still, he soldiers on and is being more careful.

My mum is having some bowel symptoms that are getting me a touch worried. I'm trying to get her to go to the GP but she won't, saying she doesn't want to go into hospital and doesn't want an anaesthetic at her age. Difficult, but I'll work on it. Nothing red flaggy yet, but something I want monitored.

My aunt in the UK has died. I want to go for the funeral. But so does my dad and its turning into a mess. He can't decide what to do, he can't go on his own (no smartphone also, so Aer Lingus only as Ryanair require online checkin) and couldn't manage the buses on the UK side anyway despite the fact that he says he could. A simple there-and-back is turning into a biblical mission. It is causing rows. What to do with my mum being the biggest one, as she can't be left long on her own. So far she is refusing an offer by a neighbour to stay for a night. She is also refusing to sleep downstairs if she was here on her own (avoiding stairs obviously) saying she'd be scared. No solution to this yet but I'm getting resentful that I just can't book things myself and have to navigate this minefield. I predict future rows as he is blaming her and her intransigence for why he might not be able to see his relatives, possibly for the last time. Its getting messy.

I'm still managing the garden to the detriment of my hobbies and free time (massively compressed and more stressful due to the good news below!) - gardeners and indeed any workers coming in are stubbornly refused.

Good news -

I've met someone. A really nice girl from Luxembourg. Its going quite well. Didn't expect this to happen. She lives about an hour and a half away, so a bit of a drive but manageable. Its proving very difficult to balance my relationship with her with my responsibilities at home, but I'm trying, although I am getting exhausted quickly. She needs to come first though. She lives alone with some dogs, fantastic, fine by me (I'm a cat person, but whatever). The future worries me - I can't move up there due to work. There is no housing nearby to move into together, and I'd rather not rent due to money reasons - not to mention theres no availability. She can't move in here due to a dog allergy in the family - also that would be a big ask in itself. So there are discussions to have and things to resolve.

But we get on really well, having similar interests and a good moral compass together so I'm pursuing this. It is also helping force priorities on the parents as well - they are realising a little that I can't always be around. Although when she was down last to visit I was collared for an hour as he was going up the ladder and that was that. But the good thing is she seems understanding, and overall a decent human. A keeper.

rolling boh

Delighted to read about you meeting somebody who seems to understand your situation .Hopefully this will make life much better for you though I know you have an awful lot on your plate .Best of luck I really hope things work out for you .

airy fairy

Kust on the Ryanair thing. Your dad doesn't need a smartphone, you can check in way before he leaves, both ways and print off his boarding pass. Ask for assistance on their chat and they can assist him getting to and from the gate and plane. And pre book a taxi for him rather than managing public transport.

Don't let the details of the relationship at this stage bog you down. You don't have responsibility to be at home with your folks. Speak to a phn in the area about home help, for getting up in the morning and bed at night?

Feets

Soo many responses hope they help. From my basic experience...its their house , if they dont want help or carers then so be it, they will soon see the reality. When it comes to it, nursing homes may be the only way as long as you believe its a great one. If its not a nursing home...it has to be a carer. Simple. The carers wage for kids minding their parents is rarely worth leaving ur job for.

Dial Hard

I wouldn't be getting too hung up on worrying about where you and your girlfriend might live yet, it's been what - three months??? The real issue is your parents' ongoing refusal to accept that their situation isn't going to be tenable for very much longer.

I honestly think you need to step away with love for a period. If you're not there to step in every time they need you for a few weeks it might make some things very apparent to them very quickly. Easier said than done, I know.