Parental care - I just don't want to do it
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The second paragraph here sums it up nicely for me I think!
Update for those interested:
- She's miserable. Still in pain, slowly coming off Oxynorm which is having its effects and they want her to come off that further. Sleeping loads. She is getting better, no doubt about that, but still having a struggle. She's a dreadful patient to be honest, very entitled and selfish in ways.
- She is getting ever more militant regarding nursing homes. My dad is struggling with her care, he's 75 and since she has some tummy issues (long standing) there are very many trips to the bathroom (extendable seat on, wheelchair to bathroom, transfer to toilet and the whole thing in reverse). Or the equivalent on the commode. He's absolutely exhausted and I'm desperately trying not to be dragged in too much. Nursing help is nonexistant - she's out of hospital two weeks now and the doctor had lost the referral so not a peep out of the public health nurses - they refused to help without that referral. They finally got it two days ago and not a single world from them since. If he wasn't capable of caring for her I don't know where we'd be.
- He needs to go onto the roof to fix a leak (yes you read that right). He won't get anyone in and won't let me do it. He'll be fine and its not a major thing, I'll be there too, but the whole thing was met with howls of anguish from HER as to what would happen if he fell. She'd end up in a home and she was visibly getting upset at the thought of it.
- She told me yesterday the following: Emphasis hers. "I'm DREADING him going to the public health nurse and him saying he can't cope and that I'd need to go into a convalescent home... I just COULDN'T deal with that NIGHTMARE again". All the while with her head in her hands. We're going to have awful trouble with her. Obviously we can't force her into a home, but if something happened to him I just couldn't care for her there would be an unmerciful fight.
- It turns out that we WOULD have been able to give her a convalescent home for a week or two on coming out of hospital under the health insurance but no-one told us. The hospital just helped her to our car - no care plan and no mention of this. Of course, once she's home, she is not entitled to it anymore, it's ridiculous.
So theres my rant and woe for the day over with. On the upside I did have quite a good first date yesterday but reality is already dawning that it won't work - I'll just be dragged back again and again to the house and my mind just won't be in the right place at all. I couldn't, with this and work, give her the time she deserves so I'll likely have to back off.
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Hi OP
I get where you're coming from and there are some nasty comments on here about money / care etc
My mother is much the same as yours and it's so frustrating. They expect everything to come to a standstill no matter how many times we have told her that we have work/ homes/kids to look after and can only do so much, but she has refused all help from HSE that was put in place for her
It's all very well people saying get over yourself, they are your parents etc but when living with it the reality is very different
They refuse to meet you half way and all this does is build up resentment from their selfishness and from being tired and stressed all the time
I dont care about money / house etc, all i want is for her to accept that not alone does she need help but we do as well !
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OP I think you could do with a bit of therapy to deal with that negative internal monologue you got going on there. You're so pessimistic about the prospects with that date. That type of mind frame manifests itself into things you say and you'll turn her off fast, not because of your family situation, but because of the woe is me attitude you're putting out to the world. But I'm sure your self fulfilling profecy will blame your parents because its easier that way isn't it!?
With regards your parents it's sounds like they're both in a bit of denial about the realities of ageing and relinquishing any sort of control. You need to assert some boundaries fast with them. As said before you've the funds to give you options here.
Neither your dating or parents situation is as hopeless as you're making out, so it's up to you if you want to continue using it as a convenient excuse or make positive changes in your life.
/tough love
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Thanks folks - I do read every comment and think it all through, good to see that I'm not the only one in this situation. Tough love does help, and maybe some therapy would help but I'll have to keep that secret as they don't believe in mental health challenges being of the post-war generation.
Todays rant:
- My dad planned to go out to get some stuff to fix a leaky pipe on my day off. Thats fine - but my mum had more bile acid diarrhea after lunch. She did have the gall bladder out years ago and whatever meds she is on are causing trouble now. I suggested options which I know myself and suggested they ring the pharmacy about it but I can't seem to get them to actually do that. So he can't go - he'll go tomorrow instead but that will now restrict my day off tomorrow most likely.
- She half jokingly said to me this morning that she was bitterly disappointed in me for not getting more involved in her care. It was half jokingly said for sure - but I'm sure there was a grain of truth in it too. She believes family members should drop everything for caring.
- She said later on that she hasn't received a single bit of sympathy or love since she came home from hospital - she just sees us both as helping her out because we have to. Under normal circumstances one would defend onesself, but I know that will just result in a verbal onslaught and an argument between the three of us.
- Public health nurses received the referral six days ago. My mum has already said she'll probably send them away because they didn't help her at the start when she "actually needed it". Hmm.
I am doing my best to be aware of my own self fulfilling prophecy and doom spiralling. But its hard. When circumstances are trying to force your life to revolve around someone very ungrateful and difficult, you just feel like you can't take anything else on. When you're away from the situation you just want to be left alone for some peace and quiet.
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I think the best option you can do for yourself is move out.
You moved back home as an adult as it suited you. The situation no longer meets your needs.
Your parents will muddle along together. If they have to reach out and get additional support they will. Especially once they realise you're not available.
Bringing your dad to a hardware store, helping your mum out with stomach pains (admittedly not what anyone wants to be doing) are very small things in the scheme of things.
As they get older and health declines further , there will be bigger things. This situation is not viable for you.
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I empathise with you OP. My husband and I helped his mother to care for his ailing father in the run up to his death last year. We spent almost 5 months visiting every second day to help with the bedtime routine and it was exhausting. Social life had to stop, we were both mentally and emotionally exhausted. It must be much more difficult for you. At the moment my mother (who is in her 60's) is the full time carer for her 90 year old mother. She is 100% dependant on my mother for everything and can be quite moody and demanding. I see how it is affecting my mother (physically, mentally, emotionally) but like your mother, my grandmother absolutely refuses to go into a care home or accept any home help. It's a very frustrating situation but there's at least some helping out from my sister and aunts who live closer than I do.
I think it's good for you to come here and vent a bit. It allows you to get the frustration out in some way rather than letting it fester. The emotional manipulation by your mother is unfair. You need to find some way to be able to deal with this. Unfortunately when it comes to stubborn parents sometimes it needs to get worse before they can realise how unsustainable a situation is. It sounds cruel but could you go away for a few days to allow them to fully recognise the reality of their situation?
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personally I think that if you live with your parents, you should help them - and if you don't wanna - then move out..
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You can't be a full time carer, cleaner and work full time and pay the bills. Never mind do it for years at a time.
Get carers in, and a cleaner. Lighten the load.
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My parents resisted the “home instead” carers. Every single one of them was flawed… couldn’t do anything right…. Cleaning, cooking, bed making…
luckily there’s 3 of us to help. But all with full time jobs we need to maintain.
banging our heads against a stone wall for a year.
eventually I cracked and told them both to STFU with the moaning and complaining and sending carers away. I was at breaking point and my siblings too. Mum copped on and started paying attention to the positives. one carer was a lousy cook but great at the ironing and cleaning,,, grand that’s Tuesday sorted… and it continues, every week there’s a minor issue but they are minor and thankfully my parents see that minor housework issues are only minor.
talk to your parents. Tell them the pressure you are under.
talk to the GP, get carers lined up.. mum was bragging on the GP that her kids would quit work and look after them. I told the GP we couldn’t and help was organised. Only an hour a day but it helps.
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Well, in the spirit of doing what MollyB60 suggested, I'm going to use this thread as a bit of a rant-station from now on.
But first, the good news.
She is improving. Without a doubt. The walking (with zimmer frame) is getting easier, she is off most of her painkillers (after a bad reaction to Tramadol, as a replacement for Oxynorm) but she still does have a long way to go to walk unaided. She still needs a lot of help and care and requires someone to be not too far away from her at all times. My dad can only go out to do the shopping, after putting her to bed first.
The bad news.
After three weeks, the local public health nurse finally rang. Now my mum was very nice about it, but did say to them that we could have done with the help when we needed it, which was three weeks ago when she got home first. The nurse agreed of course (what else can she say), but that is the system at the moment. The nurse asked if we wanted a visit just to see if everything was ok and whether we were managing ok. Of course, as with all old people, my mum said no, we didn't need any help at the moment. But that we would ring if we needed it. The nurse said "of course, anytime".... telling us to ring the phone number that is only manned from 9am to 10am on weekday mornings. Jesus wept.
I was about to start telling her why I thought it was a bad idea, but she beat me to it, saying that my dad had already told her off. But that didn't mean she did anything about it after. We're dealing with someone here who expects family to do 100% of the work and doesn't want anyone else to help her out.
So the whole "reject any form of help offered" has started. Basically my mother has decided to volunteer both me and my dad for extra work without even consulting us. The nurses could have done a few bits here and there, but oh no, me and my dad will be PERFECTLY HAPPY to do that without getting asked. Why she couldn't even have the nurse out once, I don't know, but I'm not annoyed, just jaded. There was never going to be a differerent outcome to that conversation after all.
Anyway, she is getting better, thats the main thing.
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When you moved back home initially what were the dynamics like?
Did you move back into a house share type arrangement where you looked after yourself (groceries, cooking, cleaning laundry etc) and they looked after themselves, then a rosta for communal spaces like bathroom, hoovering, cutting grass washing windows etc.
Or was it more traditional parent and child relationship , where they did the groceries your name went into the pot and you came home to cooked dinner. Majority of chores were looked after by them , laundry, hoovering cleaning etc.
If it was the later I can see why she is refusing help. She had probably done the lionsshare of household duties all her life. Now it's time for a little bit of payback. It's not forever you said yourself she's getting better. You are living in the house, these aren't household chores on top of your own household chores. You'd be doing the majority for yourself anyway if you lived alone.
A nurse would only be looking after your mum's personal care. If your mum doesn't want a stranger doing that for her, you have to respect her wishes. Guaranteed if roles were reversed she'd be looking after you and your dad in a heartbeat.
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She doesn't t hsve the right to force her family to become her carers, either. What happens if her husband becomes unable to care for her and her son decides, which he is entitled to do, that he doesn't feel able to give up his work to provide her care? Will she be enjoying the right to not be able to use the toilet or have a wash? How marvellous. And no extra cost to the HSE.
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Ring the phn on that number you have, leave a message. Tell them that indeed your mother needs at least a regular check on her personal hygiene and mental wellness. I would be telling both your parents that this is needed as you are not comfortable with refusing help.
Your mother may be on the mend, but she is still elderly. Of course she's going to refuse help, they all do, it's pride and a refusal to acknowledge aging.
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I think OP that as much as you have shown great care & understanding towards your mother, that as her condition progresses that nursing home care for her will become inevitable.
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Its a hard situation OP. You do however need help.
Both my parents and parents in law are elderly and needed help over the last few years. It drives me mad that the public health nurse and home care services etc just seem to want to listen to the elderly people who very often doesnt give correct version of what is happening. They always refuse the help offered and say they dont need anything. The views or struggles of the elderly persons family are ignored - we are usually not even consulted. It seems to suit the authorities though as long as the person themselves say they are ok the phn and services just turn a blind eye - it makes it easier for them.
This is what is happening in your case - they are just talking to your mum and she is saying all is fine. You need to get more vocal. Get onto the PHN and explain your situation - you have to get it across that there is only you and you are also trying to work full time. You have to really push hard for help as you are going to need it more and more.
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Do something selfless care for your parents you will get good karma for that the world is not so exciting read the papers you are blessed a professional job money in the bank a house to inherit focus on the positives and remember you got your professional status on the back of their toil. Take an interest in the house after all it will be yours do the garden paint it do it up show an interest you will be getting a free house a 100k people would die for that blessing.
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The OP is already doing alot for his parents and seems to be doing his best- he simply cant give them all the care they need though at the moment. He is working and has no other family to share the load. I know the point you are trying to make but finding time to do painting etc while caring for 2 elderly people is not really feasible.
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He has the proceeds from a house sale in the bank they get their pensions every week he can engage a private carer if he wants he has a good salary & no out lays for kids wives or mortgages or college fees. He is very well off and just feeling sorry for himself at being alone in this situation. Women / daughters always did these jobs without a word when a man has to do it its a big deal why is he single ? let him get a girlfriend / wife and she can help you . But to be honest a paid carer is the best idea as they are paid and have no resentment for doing their job, carers are very often lovely people.
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It's irrelevant saying if roles were reversed she'd be looking after you and your dad in fairness
The OP is also trying to hold down a job.
It's very hard to deal with a parent who refuses all help offered and thinks family can drop everything to look after them.
times have changed and most houses have 2 people going out to work unlike years ago when a lot of women would be stay at home mothers
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The OP is working a 4 day week. So it's a lot more manageable, he has 3 days off.
His parents let him move back home when it suited him.
This is the drawback of living with elderly parents, their health is only going to go one way.
Personally I don't think bringing a parent to a hardware shop a big deal, the op does as it ate into his day off.
The OP also doesn't like the fact that conversation with his parents is slowing down as their minds are no longer as sharp as they once were.
His mam has had a health episode and currently needs extra care. However she seems to be moving in the right direction and getting better.
Every update the op posts it reads like his parents are a massive inconvenience.
I've elderly parents myself and I get the fact that they can be incredibly awkward.
The OP admits he doesn't want to be a carer...which is fine I wouldn't want to be one either. However as long as he's living under the same roof as them it's going to be expected that he helps out. The parents could easily live another 10-20 years with various different ailments. The OP needs to figure out how to manage this.
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TBF no 2 situations or people are the same. Some parents are easier to mind than others, some people are better at minding others that some.
My own mother is pulling against every possible suggestion of help that was made , came home without a care plan because she told nursing home she didnt need one. Whining all the time and cant understand why we cant be there 24/7 no matter how many times it has been explained to her
Yes our parents reared us but i didnt think it came with conditions . None of us are in a position to give up work so it's a very trying time physcially and mentally so i wouldn't be too quick to condemn anyone who is struggling
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If you want things to move in a different way to how they are you need to step in, you cant be watching from the outside but still wanting a say. I dont envy your position at all and I wouldn't want it but you are living with them for your own benefit, while you're there you should help out.
If they are still refusing to compromise then its time to move out and live your independent life.
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I dont think paying for care etc is the issue - the parents need to accept that they need help. He could pay top euro for a carer but his mother would still refuse the help. If his father gets sick things are only going to get worse if they dont accept help - They need to realise he cant do everything. Thats the only way things are going to move forward. Yes the OP is going to have to realise that he is going to have to take on more too - that still shouldnt mean though that his parents should expect him to do everything.
With some outside help his parents should be able to live a reasonable standard of life and the OP should still have some freetime aswell. Surely you see women wont be lining up to go out with OP if his mother is demanding he be there all the time to take care of them!
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Aye, they just don't accept that they need help, thats part of the problem.
Neighbours don't help. One visited this afternoon - her husband had died a year ago from cancer. She said the Public Health Nurse was absolutely useless - they only came for 30 minutes a day apparently and always left the shower for her to clean up after. Not worth it at all.
Yeah, thanks, thats exactly what will convince them to get help!
Anyway, slight improvements day-to-day at the moment. She is exhausted but improving. My father is disimproving, its all exhausting him.
Just a quick note for those who say I should help more than I do. I never did say "I won't help", I am always willing to help when I am around or when I am available, but not when it crosses my red lines that include toileting, showering and things like that. I do help out a lot at the weekends and more now in the evenings, but what my fear is suddenly having to give up my job or give up my holidays and my freedom completely because of the need to care for someone. There is noone else to give me a break, even for a day or two. Thats what scares me, and this whole episode is opening my eyes as to how difficult things would be. I learnt also today that the local nursing home (which is private, not HSE) has a massive waiting list. So even if someone agreed to go into a home in the future, I couldn't get them into one.
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@Throwaway505 could you work towards being more assertive on things like your dad refusing to get anyone in to do the garden/the roof etc?
If he says no then overrule him!
You have to get comfortable with the idea of hurting your parents feelings or denting their pride a bit, it will pass, and it's in their best interests.
Even sweeten the deal the first time you get someone to do some work at home if it makes you feel a bit better and tell him "Look we're going to hire someone to do X now on Saturday and me and you are going to head out for a carvery"....probably not possible at the moment if someone has to stay with your mother but maybe you can think of something else.
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Just to keep this thread updated.... my mum is getting better, slowly slowly, but she is. She can now just about handle stairs again, she is in the wheelchair less and less and bit by bit, she is improving and getting back to herself after the injury. She still has a long way to go and she still suffers a lot from poor nights sleep and daytime sleepiness, as well as a lack of energy, but she is getting there. The doctor originally said three months and we are looking like three to four months will have her as close to normal as she is likely to ever be. So thanks to people for the well wishes and the advice regarding her health.
My dad has suffered a lot in the past three months as she was very, very demanding in terms of care. But she is realising that she can do more than she realises... but if she gets tired she'll still insist on being waited on hand and foot. At least the toileting and all that is completed now and she can do that herself. I don't know how my dad did it, the care nearly killed him and although I helped as much as I could it very nearly got too much. This despite her absolute refusal to have any help in and his absolute refusal to allow anyone in to help with the garden etc. Thats a problem - he just will not accept ANY outside help... be it in the garden or for someone to deep clean the house. I'm trying to help out in the garden where I can because I'm fit and fairly strong, but everything does have to be done his way or not at all. There have been many disagreements recently including one which hurt me where he got a sycamore tree cut back severely which I didn't want cut back as much. We agreed that we'd take it back to a certain amount, but when I next looked, well over twice that had been cut off. He also cut down an elderflower tree I liked without telling me, then gave out that I was making him feel guilty when I complained. No elderflower cordial in 2023. Small things, and not to be fallen out over, but they got at me. He's been through so much lately though I feel very, very sorry for him and he's getting too old to be dealing with all of this.
This really upset me deeper than I expected because it made me realise that I am not in control of any single aspect of my life. At work, my boss is in charge, at home they are in charge. I can't do anything around the garden off my own decision, I can't do anything around the house really on my own decision because he feels it's a takeover thing from his son. It's not easy at times. My own hobbies are being badly effected, because I'm having to take more and more work off them to keep the household going, I just don't have as much time for my own hobbies anymore, or I need to help him with his to try and keep him going. For instance, I can't join a work related beekeeping group (where I might meet people) because he already has four hives that he can't really manage but won't even discuss getting rid of or downscaling. A relationship - forget about it. My head isn't in the right place, no girl in her right mind would go out with me with this baggage. A promising date this weekend had to be cancelled because I was exhausted dealing with everything and there simply were too many things to do here. Not sure if I care enough either - which is a bad sign in itself that my mind is just elsewhere.
The good news though is I did get away to London last week for a few days so there is definite progress in me getting back to normal. Sadly, ALL of my hobbies involve travel - I don't want to go into too much detail as I'll get identified, but I need to travel around Ireland quite a bit at weekends, and I go abroad at least once a month. My hobbies don't exist locally and don't really exist in Ireland. This leads to a problem the older and frailer they get as my hobbies just won't be viable anymore.
I am really worried still - they won't plan for the future and if my dad had a stroke tomorrow and dropped dead, I'd have a mother sitting there in her chair a week later with me needing to go to work but her simply not being able to be left. Then what the hell do I do? Home care (after weeks of waiting) would only be there for a few hours a week. She will refuse a nursing home and anyway, there are months waiting lists to get into those places. What do people do? I'll NEED to go to work or get fired, but yet I can't abandon her at home and she won't be able to cope.
Anyway, good news overall but this whole experience has shaken me deeply and there are questions in the future I just can't find a viable solution for. And they WILL happen.
Edit: Lots of people saying to move out. Still not an option - I know full we'll I'd be here helping them regardless!
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Yes OP, in reality one has very little control over what happens in one’s life, as I’m especially finding out recently. Choices are dictated by circumstances, and very often it’s trying to take the least bad option. I think most people find some aspect of their life pretty awful, no matter how everything seems to appear from the outside. Many people experience a number of curveballs and obstacles, and for some there are times when nothing at all seems to go right. Sometimes it’s about trying to find the good of it in very small things.
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@Throwaway505 Hey OP, I just read through this thread this evening and I have great sympathy for your situation, I won’t repeat any of the great advice that you’ve gotten already. I do think that you should consider even a couple of sessions with a therapist to discuss your situation. They will help you better understand the Parent/Child dynamic that is going on for you at the moment. Your father’s need to be in control of the DIY etc. is probably because it is the only thing he has power over at the moment. Lashing out at you over the pruning wasn’t never aimed at you directly, you were the person threatening the last thing he had control over.
The therapist will also help you understand the roles in conflict - persecutor, victim and rescuer and how to navigate it as best you can.
Once you hit your late 30’s you have enough life experience to know what you want from life, you certainly sound like you do and you seem to have great resilience too, which is wonderful.
You need to look after yourself too. Do the things that you love and bring you joy. If the garden doesn’t get mown or weeds overgrow if you are travelling for a few days or weeks, so what? They can be cut back anytime. As long as the roof of the house isn’t falling down or some other calamity doesn’t befall the house (which would be a professional job anyway) your parents will be fine.
Take care.
Cui bono?
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A lot of what you're describing is pretty normal adult stuff.
You're boss having control: everyone has that problem . There's always someone you have to answer to. Your boss has to answer to their boss. Even if you were self employed you'd have to answer to bank manager to service loans, or clients. If you had staff you'd be answerable to them as you'd have a duty of care to bank roll their salaries.....even Putin is probably answerable to someone.
There are very few adults that can devote all the time they would like to their hobby. Unless you are living your life as a complete lone wolf there will always be someone that wants to share time with you. I'm sure the majority of your peers in your hobby have someone dependent on them. Not necessarily a parent or child but even a partner in a healthy relationship will impact on time being spent on the hobby, so again you are not alone with this.
I do think you need to make peace with your situation though.
You are living in your parents house so ultimately they will have the final word on everything! It's their home that they have spent the majority of their lives building. They could still be living there for the next 10-20 years. So you do need to find a way to deal with the frustrations that living with parents bring.
Regarding the hobby, you say most of it requires travel to get there etc.....if that's the case ...it takes planning. So you need to take charge and say June 10-24th I'm in Spain....mark it on the calendar. Prepare a few dinners for the freezer and do a big grocery shop and leave them to it. They will survive.....if they struggle during the time you are away then it helps your home help argument and you can revisit the conversation.
If your parents are anything like mine they have to come to the decision themselves. Trying to force an idea will just make them dig their heels in.
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Great posts there by a couple of posters, it's true that a lot of what you described OP is pretty normal adult life and a lot of people find things hard in different ways or have different restrictions.
In your last post when you spoke about how you can't do this and can't do that and spoke about the lack of control over your own life you hit the nail on the head with the last part
A promising date this weekend had to be cancelled because I was exhausted dealing with everything and there simply were too many things to do here. Not sure if I care enough either - which is a bad sign in itself that my mind is just elsewhere.
It's very very normal if your mental health is suffering to feel like you have no control over your life, or to see your own situation as more difficult than other peoples situation. It's a symptom of depression.
That doesn't mean you don't have restrictive circumstances in your life, but a lot of it is a frame of mind issue too. I've had times where my life was severely restricted in many ways and felt that same lack of control and how it was harder for me than a lot of people, and it was harder than what a lot of people had to put up with for various reasons, however once I sorted out my mindset and my frame of mind I had most of the same objective restrictions and circumstances, but lost the sense of hopelessness and realised I definitely had choices and the power to change things, and the things I couldn't change no longer bothered me so much.
There are many people out there with elderly parents who refuse to take on the carer role. They will help out but they live their lives. You do have agency over your life and how your future goes.
I definitely think a therapist could benefit you, you could work on boundaries, help you to deal with your parents, learn techniques to try to let go of guilt if you want to live your own life and to help you to see that your future doesn't have to be out of your control.
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