Less resilient youth

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303214#Comment_120303214

Laugh all you want. I run businesses and plan to set up more. why would I want a pension? I will have many streams of income by the time I get to pension age.

I have no problem with others wanting one but I have no interest in one, is that ok with you?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303248#Comment_120303248

But "Hard workers don't need pensions" is inaccurate.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303214#Comment_120303214

Sure they don't get old or sick ... 🤣🤣

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303269#Comment_120303269

I mean self employed hard workers don't need pensions. Not sure if you agree or disagree but that is the way I see it.

I wont be relying on the youth of today to pay a pension for me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303220#Comment_120303220

I'm not sure your first sentence is factually correct. The easier you have it, the less equipped you are for situations requiring resilience. I certainly had it a lot easier growing up in the '80s and '90s than my parents did growing up in the '50s and '60s. And they're definitely more resilient than I am.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303284#Comment_120303284

Spoken like a true pessimist. The joke is on you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303321#Comment_120303321

It's pessimism to say you'll get old? (Which brings illness with it).

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303328#Comment_120303328

OK so I get old and or sick. what difference would that make? I will still have properties making passive income for me and hopefully businesses.

Getting old and sick doesn't mean you will be poor needing a pension.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303351#Comment_120303351

Plenty of self-employed people lose everything and would have said it would never happen to them. It's foolish to put all your eggs in that basket when you could set up a pension.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303248#Comment_120303248

‘Hard workers don’t need them’

thats what you said :)

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303286#Comment_120303286

Hugely disagree. Tax insensitives, you're wasting money!

Edit: I can't spell. Tax insensitive may work though.

pgj2015

I remember talking to this guy before the pandemic, early 20's guy. He was talking about the poor overthrowing the rich. made me sick. I was thinking or maybe better yourself and get yourself out of the situation you are currently in. lazy jealous waster.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303412#Comment_120303412

That post doesn't do you any favours in fairness.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303404#Comment_120303404

maybe but thats just the way im going to do it.

any way dont want to derail the thread.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303412#Comment_120303412

Nothing to do with the pandemic. Always that crap student talk.

chrissb8

Some validity for why they aren't as resilient is with social media, and constant information it can easily exhaust a young person's mind. It's not as easy to say just don't look at social media, when they have grown up with technology like this from a young age. That warps, distorts and can ruin a person's mind. But that is no fault of their own. That is just how it is now.

The youth of the past had more real-world experience and fewer expectations around looks, wealth, and status which made for a more well-rounded individual. One who wasn't exposed to everything all at once. They were more present and their world extended to their friends and in general, their world was a lot smaller, not as overwhelming.

However, on the other hand. It does no one any help to cry wolf on every occasion something is marginally stressful or is a negative experience. All you're doing is setting someone up to not be prepared when something worse happens to them. Mental health is now in the public eye and over time will get the respect it deserves.

But if you're going to take mental health days because work is busy at the moment and you feel some pressure you need to cop on. Life has expectations, life has busy/stressful periods, and life has sad days but it's knowing that all that passes and knowing how to grab hold of something because calmer seas will prevail.

Talk to your friends, talk to your family, talk to your therapist. But there is one thing you can't hide from when it gets tough, and that's life. I have never met one person who has become something from no adversary, hard work and grit.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303435#Comment_120303435

Good luck to you.

I do really hope it goes well.

joe40

By what metric are we quantifying resilience. How does one measure it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303503#Comment_120303503

Yep, social media is bound to be affecting young people's mental health.

Cluedo Monopoly

I am 50+ and I have to say I have great confidence in the young people growing up today. They have great confidence and a lot less baggage that we had growing up in the 70s and 80s. Obviously the church warped our thinking for a long time. The young people today are honest and know what they want and I think they will make a better Ireland. The social media thing is a bit nuts but they will rise above it.

Moghead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302452#Comment_120302452

I would have loved that when I was in my early teens.

ThePentagon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058286414/less-resilient-youth

I was reading a book recently - Don't Mention the Wars by Tony Connelly of RTE (terrific book BTW) - which kinda touched upon this topic.

Connelly spoke to a Swedish child psychologist who said that in Sweden there is a massive emphasis on social protection, with the goal of the state being to keep every member of the population as "safe" as possible from the cradle to the grave. One of the effects of this, sadly, the psychologist noted, was a relatively high suicide rate among teenagers. He concluded that the youth were so sheltered from discomfort in life that the slightest unexpected setback - e.g. breaking up with a girlfriend/boyfriend - was enough to send a teenager into a suicidal spiral.

I'm not a psychologist so I can't verify his claim, but I did find it thought-provoking. Maybe it could be argued that too much protection can deny a young person a chance to develop some "resilience" to their character which will help them navigate life as adult. When I see my sisters so overprotective of their kids, I'm automatically inclined to think that that kind of coddling will leave them fragile in the face of the inevitable challenges the "real world" has in store for them as they get older.

On the other hand, maybe the avoidance of too much childhood trauma, however mild, will have a beneficial effect on a young person's confidence going into adulthood.

Out of curiosity I looked up the suicide rate here in Ireland over the past 25 years and apparently it's going down, so maybe "coddling" is the way to go 😆

c.p.w.g.w

One of the biggest differences I see...

I'm in my mid 30's, and my parents didn't have much and I was often told that certain things were not an option (I knew it was due to money, despite my parents providing different reasons)

But I am currently seeing this happening less, I know of 2 people who go into significant debt to buy lots for there kids, keeping up with the Jones...my BIL and sister for example went into debt for Xmas presents, maybe it's guilt for them both work 40+ hours a week, the kids are dragged out of bed @7 and dropped to the crèche, the crèche bring them to School, collect them from school and back to the crèche until they are collected, feed washed and pur to bed ...this is something I have seen become a lot more common...

Also modern parenting seems to discourage any discipline, I worked in retail for 14 years, and the amount of parents (not rough people) who's kids would destroy the place and all they did was "Johnny, you can't do that, give that to me...oh come on now sweety, do as you told" child ignores it and continues destroying the place

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303588#Comment_120303588

Selectively, it would seem 😂

The pressures faced by today’s generations of young people aren’t any more or any less than previous generations, they’re just a different set of pressures or expectations is all. Each generation raises the bar significantly for the next one, it’s how society has progressed to the point it has, precisely because each generation is no more or less resilient than the previous generation - it’s only the standards set and expectations that differ.

Cherry-picking and contrasting extremes ignores the vast majority of people of any generation who either didn’t have the same experiences or had vastly different experiences, it’s a poor means to draw any conclusions one way or another about how resilient any generation was or is, when their standards, experiences and expectations just aren’t the same or even similar.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303286#Comment_120303286

It wouldn’t matter that you consider yourself (or anyone else for that matter) a hard worker, everyone still needs a pension, it’s a basic element of planning for their future when they’re not in the same position they are now where they have the opportunity to plan for their future. It’s nothing to do with being hard-working or relying on younger generations to fund your retirement personally, it’s nothing more than investing in your own future.

If you imagine your current plans are sufficient, that IS your pension, the idea that these businesses you set up will be successful and all the rest of it, and continue to provide you with an income in your later years when the cost of living only goes one way in the same capitalist economy you’re scornful of other people for wanting to change. I wouldn’t be scornful of them, just because they have yet to learn that in order to overthrow the wealthy and powerful, they have to become wealthy and powerful themselves first. It’s one of those fun conundrums of youth vs experience, no need to break anyone’s balls over it, let alone be disgusted by it 😂

kirk.

Thought this was a serious question til I saw the word snowflake

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303248#Comment_120303248

Loads of business people have pensions, it actually makes sense.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304157#Comment_120304157

Especially people in business who are self-employed, because they’re generally not foolish enough to imagine that businesses they have yet to set up will be successful.

That kind of idealistic approach is more commonly observed among the younger generation who imagine themselves as being just as resilient in their old age as they are currently in their youth. It’s why most people don’t start planning for their retirement, because they prefer to spend it on enjoying their youth.

namloc1980

TikTok and Instagram etc is poison for young people. It's like nothing we've ever had to experience. Young teens (mostly girls) walking around taking selfies and videos and uploading them. Online bullying and trying to live up to unrealistic social media expectations must be very difficult for a lot of young people. I'd hate to be growing up today in that world.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302644#Comment_120302644

But you choose to ?follow? it now? I have no idea what social media is about. I make limited use of a couple of subjects on boards ie but it does not play a large or important part of my life and I leave it when I have other things to do,

It is not social media to blame. But over use of it. If it died today I would not notice it, Our choice

castletownman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304084#Comment_120304084

Agree 100% on both counts.

You'll see it now in a few weeks when Easter comes around. When I was a child you'd be glad to pick out one Easter egg you wanted, and might have gotten a surprise second one off a grandparent if we happened to visit during the time-frame. Now chaps get multiple easter eggs without second thought to the extent shop shelves are bare. No wonder there is a childhood obesity crisis (well between that and parents preferring their chaps to be under their nose glued to their tablet than outside letting their imagination run free).

I do think a lot of indiscipline these days is passed off as the child potentially being on the spectrum. They can't all be. Sometimes a swift slap on the arse is needed to sort them out. Never did me or my peers any harm, and you'd quickly learn not to act the eejit again. Parents mollycoddle too much these days (and talk too softly).

Graces7

We lived in a different world. Almost noone had cars so we walked anywhere there were no buses. A few of us had bikes.

At secondary school the walk to and from the bus was two miles a day.i

So we were perforce much more physically active and that alone builds resilience. No social media so we played outside.

It started changing when TV arrived! And has gone downhill since then...

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304191#Comment_120304191

In my experience if you think positively, have a good head on your shoulders and work hard you cant loose. It has worked for me throughout my whole life. I find Business pretty simple really and will have businesses in different sectors so I will be ok. You may think im wrong but I know im not. we will agree to disagree. Look at it another way, if I don't have a pension, it pushes me to work harder and make sure my business succeed.

pensions these days aren't what they used to be, I wouldn't trust the government with mine and I will opt out if they try to sign me up for one.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301818#Comment_120301818

I’m reminded of Patrick Kielty and his recent appearance on the Tommy Tiernan show , Tiernan does his usual assumption that Kielty is constantly tormented ( Kielty was very young when his dad was murdered by Loyalist terrorists )

kielty replies “ you know it gets a bad rap but there is a lot to be said for dealing with stuff privately and the old fashioned way “

the trouble with sharing everything is even you overcome the problem, the world always knows you had it, battle and conquer it on your own and it’s easier forgotten

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304196#Comment_120304196

Agree wholeheartedly. Unnecessary pressures and faceless bullying.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058286414/less-resilient-youth

...well we re nicely fcuking over the youth in regards some of their most critical of needs, i.e. property, health care, environmental needs, etc etc, so......

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304326#Comment_120304326

I’m with you on the thinking positively and all the rest of it, I wouldn’t say you can’t lose because there will always be circumstances outside of your control that simply can’t be overcome, but that’s really the whole point I guess of being resilient and developing resilience - part of it is facing and overcoming challenges, but also part of it is knowing too when you’re in over your head, or out of your depth. I’m sure you’re familiar with the concept of entrepreneurial resilience, it’s something young entrepreneurs possess in abundance, as opposed to this idea that younger generations are lacking in resilience or aren’t motivated to work hard to achieve their goals in the same manner as you are.

I’m looking at it your way and I see where you’re coming from, but it’s foolish to be operating without having some kind of a backup plan or exit strategy that will give you an income in retirement. You won’t be able to work forever, and what’s the point in working towards something at all if you never get to enjoy the benefits of your efforts?

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303286#Comment_120303286

Ah you’ll claim it alright.

It's definitely fashionable to say that things are the same as they always were and nobody is any different (it's the new "back in my day, things were better") but of course things and people are different. That's what happens. And there has never been anything like the internet - its immensity is unparalleled.

mariaalice

What is resilience?

A teen did mediocre in their leaving cert, then did a PLC course that got them into a degree, then did a post-grad in Scotland to get them where they wanted to go, it took 7 years and they worked part-time all the way through that is resilience.

Young people are going to be fine for the most part, the constant emphasis on mental health is a bit strange and I am going to say irritating to older people like myself but that is life, also a lot if not all the mental health influencers/commentators are monetising their interest in mental health and that should be pointed out to young people.

Where's this "young people are going to be fine" coming from? Not exactly scientific is it?

Badly Drunk Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302745#Comment_120302745

You should have heard what Zico had to say about it!

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304613#Comment_120304613

I don't plan on working forever, I plan to enjoy my later years, I plan to see the world in my later years, I dont live to work, money is not my god. say I have 3 properties that I rent out, would that income not be enough to see me ok in retirement? I know there can be issues with renting property but I will have businesses as well. look if all else fails I will be living in a property mortgage free and have an old age pension, I can let a room or 2 in my 5 bed house to lodgers if I really have to. im not in any way worried about needing a pension, I don't mean to sound arrogant but im just being honest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301917#Comment_120301917

This.

victor8600

I am in my 40s. I have talked (at work and informally) to people in their 20s and they seem to be less infantile and more responsible than my generation 20 years ago. Definitely young people have a more open mind regarding sexuality, gender diversity and other "woke" issues.

Furze99

I think you can make an argument that late teens onwards are less resilient in western society now.

But just look at Ukraine - young lads mostly but also young women, barely past our leaving cert age and bound up in the struggle to defend their state and drive their invading neighbours out. Whether at the frontlines or working behind, all these 'youth' have had to toughen up very very quickly.

Of course, war is terrible and you can say that it's facile to recommend it as solution to societal woes. But that has been a basic fact down through centuries of human existence, terrible and all - it sorts the weeds from the grain.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305020#Comment_120305020

I dunno. That was only the early 2000s. My peers and I were totally accepting in those regards - the more unconventional the better (a certain level of it being "cool" came into play) Maybe it depended on the social circle.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304977#Comment_120304977

I don’t think you sound arrogant at all, fair play like that you have a couple of properties and all. In those circumstances you have a couple of long-term investments that means your future is fairly well secured anyway even if the businesses go tits up! 😳

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305086#Comment_120305086

My circles in 2000s were university students, so more liberal and tolerant on average than most in Ireland at that time. And yet, an openly gay student was seen as a novelty, as something remarkable.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305020#Comment_120305020

Definitely a fair bit of confirmation bias going on there though, that you’d be more inclined to surround yourself with, and be surrounded by, people of a similar mindset to your own. Personally I’d say it’s much of a muchness - young people are no more open-minded, mature or responsible than they were 20 years ago.

That’s why I said earlier in the thread that it’s not a great means to measure resilience among generations by comparing and contrasting extreme examples, ignoring the vast majority of any given generation.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305048#Comment_120305048

Your last para is shocking and callous. This is about human lives and deaths.