Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

lmao10

A lot of extreme scum on show there. Really sickened the country I'd imagine and put paid to most of these far right bottom feeders as a genuine election threat, not that they were already. It was unsettling to see but also good to see the filth exposing themselves on national TV. They'll probably get great enjoyment out of it and completely lack the awareness to understand how repellent that viewing was to the general public.

prunudo

There was only one winner in that prime programme, The Government. At no point did it question the reason behind the protests, no point did it show the slow and peaceful build ups. At no point did it actually try to show that there is a peaceful majority agaisnt these centres. There was no acknowledgement of how and why tensions rise, why did get to the stage the people are angry.

Regarding Newtown, it failed to tell the story how a resolution meeting had been called between the gardai, developer and protesters with the understanding no work would take place only for them to go back on their word and sneak in with a convoy of trucks and equipment at 2am.

Yes it showed the ugliest and worst of some, a minority of people who use hate and abuse but that doesn't mean everyone who protests or is agaisnt the governments policies is a thug shouting abuse.

As I said in the opening sentence, only one winner from that programme.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635453#Comment_122635453

RTE is the governments propaganda machine.

That's what they've turned into

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122622899#Comment_122622899

Short version : Vanilla (the platform provider for this site) are bargain basement, coupled with the fact that there's only 1 (I believe part time) member of staff in Boards.ie outside of the CEO, and he can't do much beyond logging the tickets with Vanilla support and hope they fix them at some point. Not his fault.. That's just the way the site runs nowadays.

Anyway, back on topic.......

I only saw bits of the protest reports yesterday as I'm away for a work thing, but it doesn't surprise me that the focus is on the scumbag element who would cause trouble regardless.

This however doesn't take away from or wave away the genuine concerns of the majority of the electorate (as evidenced through polls over the last year), nor does it excuse the deliberate and determined efforts from Government to continue with this enforced resettlement programme - enforced because anyone who stands up in the communities affected can expect a visit from the public order unit and to be called 'far right racists/xenophobes' by the same media begging for their money because 'quality journalism matters'.

It's no different to when the Gardai were used to enforce the installation of water meters 7 years ago. It's the FG way to trample over the wishes of the electorate to support the hangers on making coin from it all. It astonishes me that they are surging in the polls. Sure, SF are awful yes but re-electing the same crowd who are responsible for this debacle??!!! Vote Independent at least.

Make no mistake, under current policy the numbers we're seeing reported will only keep rising. Thousands and thousands of mostly welfare tourists arriving here with their hand out and which we, the native citizens and taxpayers are told instantly become our responsibility and the majority of whom will remain a drain indefinitely, ultimately to be rewarded with citizenship and a puff piece on the RTE News.

That though isn't the biggest issue believe it or not. No, the bigger concern is the effects this will all have on our society in the long term. We've already seen gangs calling each other out and attacking others in videos on social media, but the real problems will start when communities become overwhelmed by the numbers (it's already happening on a smaller scale in villages and towns where they've been dumped into hotels and other buildings). Already insufficient infrastructure and services stretched beyond breaking, understandable resentment from the locals, and an "us vs them" mindset from both groups as a result with the division and conflict that inevitably brings.

Then there's the effects it'll have on future investment and priorities in those communities, something that will become exacerbated as some of the new arrivals (fresh with their Irish citizenship) start lobbying and campaigning for still more supports for their (separate but growing) community. Again this is something that already happens with some of the better known personalities appearing regularly to talk down to the Irish on the RTE News. Wait till they start standing for local or national Government though.....

This isn't scaremongering. These are the inevitable things that will - and already are - occur(ring). In a decade or so we'll find ourselves in the same place as parts of the UK, France and other countries where this has already happened and resulted in disaster for anyone not directly benefiting from it.

This is why there's growing pushback in those places that is now reflecting in domestic and national policy changes in those countries - but as usual, here in Ireland we're the slow learners who have to not only repeat their mistakes, but give them enough of an "Irish twist" to make the issues significantly worse! This will rapidly come to a head when the next economic crash hits (these things are circular given our economy) and the Magic Money Tree (remember when FG and FF rightly derided SF for that concept?) starts to wither and die. Again all of this has happened before too.

Ireland is changing, likely permanently and it won't be for the better. We're going down a dark path of social division and separate communities, of resentment and frustration boiling over into stupid acts of violence (as is understandable but self defeating), and an increasingly marginalised native population who will find themselves less and less represented (not that it's exactly stellar now) in local and later national politics.

Our only hope seems to be that the policy changes gathering steam elsewhere will reduce or stop the amount arriving into the EU bloc going forward, but that won't do anything to address the problems we're already facing, or what we do with thousands upon thousands of mostly chancers already here.

That's a problem our children will have to deal with, and they won't be thanking us for it!

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635463#Comment_122635463

What would you expect when the Government bailed them out with over €700 million of our money? A bent, corrupt, mismanaged organisation bailing out another bent, corrupt, mismanaged organisation.

Gombeenism at its finest.

Repro212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635352#Comment_122635352

As my dad used to say, 'go looking for trouble son and it'll always find you.'

Meanwhile, good to see the reality of the situation reported here.

https://youtu.be/7LFVzTik2BY?feature=shared

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635352#Comment_122635352

One thing I've noticed on social media. All of those people criticising the actions of the violent scumbags / vigilantes are posting under their real names - those who are defending them or even cheerleading for them are posting from anonymous troll accounts. It does suggest the thugs and their supporters know full well they are reviled and pariahs and are using social media to try distort the narrative around their activities.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635699#Comment_122635699

Again very weak argument - its social media, how do you know the majority are who they imply they are? Nothing stopping you from putting a random name or picture on a profile? Lots of "anonymous troll accounts" calling everyone racist/Nazi/ Facist.

We do not know who you are? Care to tell us?

You know how social media algorithm's work with regards to the content you see? Right?

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635699#Comment_122635699

When you see the target abuse the left ngo troll accounts dish out, the doxing, bodyshaming, and general toxicity to people with opposing views, I can understand why people choose to keep their real names from social media. There was a comment in the programme last night that the right were sharing details of some the immigrants, well the left are also guilty of it, and doing its as we speak.

I really do dispare at where public discourse is at present, horrible horrible atmosphere out there, as per my previous post. Only one winner, the government, particularly FG it seems.

ericzeking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635699#Comment_122635699

Clearly, when the government, media and police force are on one side, it might be slightly personally disadvantageous to publicly denounce them. For the ordinary Joe like who has a family and a mortgage.

Siding with the establishment is easy. Like in the schoolyard, standing behind the bully watching him carry on picking on 'the other'….

Some people are very hard of thinking when it comes to their hot takes….

Cody montana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635352#Comment_122635352

They need jailing.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635573#Comment_122635573

So the RTE Investigates footage was fake? Or have you an opinion on the scumbags and intimidation and arson shown?

I also agree the RTE bailout was wrong but the programme was hard hitting and well made. Biased yes but I am embarrassed for the posters who were defending the tactics of these racist scumbags, vandals and arsonists in the past. I said it before, the protesters have played into FFG's hands.

creeper1

FG/FF won't sort this out.

SF don't oppose this ( the best they can muster even after an electoral drubbing is "audits" but no community gets a veto).

Independents - yeah I could get behind them but I'm told they won't work together.

Ultimately Europe could be the answer. AFD success could mean Germany starts trying to get a handle on this at a European level.

I hope so because the EU migration pact certainly is not an answer.

What a mess!

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635463#Comment_122635463

The behaviour of the likes of Dwyer, Gavin Pepper and some of the other nuts that certain posters were backing on the site was pretty clear. Rte didn't misrepresent the racial abuse, the harassing of volunteers, the attempt to intimidate journalists out of reporting. They were perfectly well able to come across as scumbags all on their own.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635699#Comment_122635699

Yeah, people are willing to speak out and show themselves doing it when they see that kind of grostesque behavior. It's something no ordinary decent person with an ounce of empathy wants to be associated with. The flat out lies have worn thin from the scumbags who try to sanitise these scums actions and they have no crediblity. It's clear what lies at the heart of these "protests", we saw it all as plain as day last night. It repulsed the public beyond words.

rossie1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635453#Comment_122635453

They did show the genuine protestors actually but like everything else the scumbags took over.

And the harassment and abuse that guy living in Ireland 18 years received on the campaign trial is nothing short of disgraceful. What it does show is that these people are not interested in just migrants they want anyone that looks different to themselves out.

And no it didn't make the government look good at all. It made them look rather incompetent actually. From not being able to provide adequate shelter for migrants in Dublin to a completely overwhelmed and understaffed police force and fire service, the Irish governments decimation of our public services over past 25 years were on full display last night on that broadcast.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636201#Comment_122636201

But they did misrepresent it, they showed a small minority shouting abuse and failed to represent the massive numbers of peaceful protesters who are against the governments policies and stood outside proposed centres, voicing their objections in a normal manner. Hundreds and some cases thousands, marching through their town in opposition to these centres.

They created a narrative against the protesters implying its a small number of racist thugs, its not, that I can assure you.

And with regards to O'Kelly, when you see how the man operates on the ground, you will understand the hostility towards the man, and don't take that as me condoning what people say or do to him. He arrives at protests to get a reaction, riles people up. When people see his blue jacket coming up the road, its only to paint them in a bad light, not to report in an unbiased manner.

rossie1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635503#Comment_122635503

Then maybe we shouldn't copy the French and English models where we throw everyone in a big pit together and rather let them integrate into society like normal humans.

We have already seen how integration can work in this country. The town of Ballyhaunis is good example to everyone.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636319#Comment_122636319

I think you'll find in the UK and France (and everywhere else in Europe) that certain demographics choose to literally create their own separate communities and make zero effort to integrate/adapt outside of where it's absolutely necessary.

Also how exactly do we ensure that the 500 or so arriving a week, scamming the asylum system integrate when we literally have nowhere to put them other than fields/random hotels owned by greedy fooks etc. The latest report out estimates that we need 52,000 houses a year built just to keep up with the population growth from legal immigration of people coming to work. Then we need all the services/doctors/teachers/transport etc to support this number of households. Throw in 20-25k fake asylum seekers a year too - how exactly are we going to manage to give a huge number of them free/welfare supported housing to ensure that they have a nice easy time integrating? And why should we? Is it basically a case of give us free houses in nice areas or you get Sweden style gang war?

silverharp

I see the campers are back in Beggers Bush , personally I cant get excited about anything NE of Landsdowne but the NGO's must be up to their old tricks, someone from the North side wouldnt know the space existed yet randomers from the third world seem to have no issues lol

PokeHerKing

Funny how quickly the government are willing to change legislation to stop non peaceful protesting but can't think of anything to stop illegal immigration.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636319#Comment_122636319

Yes indeed. The countries with ghettos and riots on the streets are invariably the ones who have done an absolutely terrible job of integrating people from minorities into wider society. People keep talking about Sweden and what is happening there, but it seems they have made an utter hames of immigration and integration : ghettos all over the place, migrant criminal gangs, large numbers of immigrants living in abject poverty and without prospects etc (like NI before and during the Troubles on steroids). None of this happened by accident.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636533#Comment_122636533

Yes, yes, auld Paddy will do it different...

rgossip30

What has happened this thread ??

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636565#Comment_122636565

And we have such a good record of doing things differently.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636533#Comment_122636533

How did Sweden make a hames of it and be as specific as possible on what they done wrong.

No other country has been able to make it a success, so can you let us know where they all went wrong, so we can pass it onto Simon so we can make sure we don't make those mistskes.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636773#Comment_122636773

It's a well researched topic. Don't offload migrants into urban areas and try and avoid massing together people from the same country of origin into the same areas - this immediately creates the risks of ghettos forming and people in these ghettos failing to integrate into the wider society.

What Irish governments have been doing is actually pretty sensible. Dispersing migrants and refugees to the four corners of Ireland, frequently away from any urban areas. Making sure that there is a good mix of nationalities, religions and languages in each area and then provide active support to help them integrate into local communities.

Saying Ireland will go the way of Sweden in ten or twenty year's time is scarcely accurate, not unless we are deliberately planning on copying the Swedish model of effing things up royally.

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635939#Comment_122635939

Where did I ever say it was fake footage? You summed up the problems with the program in your next paragraph. It was biased, and never addressed the root causes for the rise of the scumbags who cause all the trouble at these protests.

Because that would put a target on the fronts of RTE's Government "saviours" a few months out from an election.

Pravda would be proud.

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122637052#Comment_122637052

What Irish governments have been doing is actually pretty sensible. Dispersing migrants and refugees to the four corners of Ireland, frequently away from any urban areas.

That's exactly what Germany did, especially the east of Germany - That worked out really well…

…for AfD

Mandy Johnston's guest from the Guardian mentioned it a couple of weeks ago when she said 'Germany has a system where when people come in, they're distributed around the country…' - Listen from 8mins in

https://www.goloudplayer.com/episodes/why-the-position-off-the-suns-af-ZGM2N2I4ZDFlYjhkYjFiNGMzOTlhNDJkZGRhODI0MjI%3D

I'll also add, the Govt haven't done anything sensible regarding this shambles - They didn't sit down and plan a well thought out strategy to disperse fake asylum seekers around the country - it was pure panic stations then, and still is now

sliabh 1956

Drew Harrris now admits that the Standing down of the Garda Public Order Unit during the Coolock riots was a mistake. Watching that programme last night it was my first thought and Im no security expert . Harris and Mc Entee are completly out of their depth as was was proven last night