Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Jinglejangle69

…oops

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174796#Comment_120174796

Yet more inaccuracies from you. The Sunday Times reported today that, on a per capita basis, we are taking in around 6 times that of UK or France. So we're taking 6 times as many as we "should".

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173846#Comment_120173846

You seem to have absolutely no idea how the Asylum process works in Ireland

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173952#Comment_120173952

Of course. It is not in the interest of asylum seekers to be left in direct provision for extended periods.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174832#Comment_120174832

In fairness Pat Kenny has been very vocal lately about scammers destroying their documents before immigration control.

Which is very strange.

Probably the only one questioning it along with Niall Boylan.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174974#Comment_120174974

Well enlighten us so?

Because that’s exactly what is happening right now.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174067#Comment_120174067

This is the racism people constantly claim isn't there

One terrorist attack almost 6 years ago, and you can tar thousands of asylum seekers as being members of jihadi terrorist groups.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174823#Comment_120174823

Ireland rejects way more refugee applications than we allow to stay

Those figures will be different since the Ukraine war, but, hear me out on this, there's a freaking war in Europe where a psychopath is levelling cities, and murdering innocent women and children.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174967#Comment_120174967

This is only because of the Ukrainian war. Ireland have taken in a huge number of Ukrainian refugees.

I think this is a good thing TBH. We're not going to help them defeat the Russians with any military aid, we should help by providing a safe place to live until the war is over or longer should they choose to stay)

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175018#Comment_120175018

It must average about one terrorist attack a week in europe? Hamburg train attack last week. Two teenagers dead. Attack last week in Spanish church. One dead one seriously injured.

We allow asylum seekers in from places like Afghanistan because quite frankly Afghanistan is a violent hell hole. But you're argument changes with the wind... its basically that Afghanistan isnt a safe place to live because Afghans kill each other. So we need to let Afghans come to ireland. But when Afghans come to Ireland they suddenly change into these peace loving people that wouldn't hurt a fly...

You must admit your argument lacks consistency...

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175233#Comment_120175233

Ah the old "my mate told me". We had this in the Enoch Burke thread too. "My mate told me the family are well respected".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173145#Comment_120173145

I thought he nailed it

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174967#Comment_120174967

Are you referring to Ukrainian refugees perhaps? That's a completely abnormal situation and something that hasn't been seen in Europe in 80 years (also, Ukrainian people are not 'asylum seekers' per se and are being treated legally as if they are from the EU).

But there's no evidence at all that we are operating a different asylum system to France, Germany, Belgium, Spain, NL, Austria, Sweden etc or that it is easier for a non-Ukrainian refugee to enter Ireland than any other EU state in western Europe.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175155#Comment_120175155

The argument is that the people who are fleeing the Taliban in Afghanistan are less likely to be in the Taliban's good books than the people who choose to stay.

The UK played a very big role in causing the mess that is currently in Afghanistan, they, along with the US, funded the Taliban to fight the Russians in the 80s. So, I think the UK has an obligation to help refugees fleeing the Taliban today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_in_the_Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War

Ireland don't have that culpability but we're in a free travel area with the UK, so it makes no difference from a security POV if the refugees are going to the UK or Ireland, they can travel freely between both jurisdictions.

Sallywag37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174974#Comment_120174974

You seem to have some idea how it works in theory and absolutely no idea how it works in practice. Most asylum claims are rejected because most asylum claimants are economic migrants; there begins the endless rounds of appeal after appeal after appeal, resulting either in deportation orders which rarely culminate in a actual deportations, or compassionate leave to remain often hinging on innocent children who've been forced to spend much of their childhoods in Direct Provision Centres. The entire system is shambolic and wide open to abuse. In fact it's been abused so thoroughly we're now ill equipped to offer support to those for whom the system was actually designed.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175323#Comment_120175323

That's not how refugee status works.

When someone is granted asylum, it's not 'until the war is over'. They need to be able to begin a new life. the war could take years to end, and when it's over, their homes could be destroyed. You'd send them back to a levelled city to be homeless? with no schools, hospitals, employment....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxTaovobGv4

edit - Actually there are two types of asylum applications. Since the Ukraine invasion, we have introduced Temporary international protection applications. Which is valid for 1 year but can be extended

The vast majority of Ukrainian refugees are under the Temporary applications

but I would expect that if their homes are destroyed, many applications will be transferred to permanent refugee status

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175274#Comment_120175274

Yes, numbers pertain to Ukrainians, but this "experiment" only highlights the problem with our system. Why have so many flooded in here, given we have no historical links with Ukraine whatsoever and are thousands of miles away?? The fact that we are taking 6 times as many as the UK or France on a per capita basis merely shows what a soft touch we are. Its hardly coincidental that 2022 was also associated with a surge of non-Ukrainians (esp from nearby Georgia), once the word got out.

L.Ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058281647/time-for-a-zero-refugee-policy

"I'm not racist, I just want the white refugees from the white people war and not the brown refugees from the brown people wars."

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175353#Comment_120175353

A lot of people flee Afghanistan because it is poor... not because they dislike the Taliban...

America and Britain spent twenty years in Afghanistan trying to build a functioning country. Thousands of troops were killed and trillions of dollars spent. The Yanks and Brits pull out and a few days later the Taliban is back in control. Does that not tell you something about how Afghans will fit into Ireland?

Same with places like Syria etc.... people dont flee syria because they love the West. They flee because they were Islamic State supporters that lost the war with Basar al Assad...

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175489#Comment_120175489

If people love the Taliban most likely they would stay and enjoy life there rather than coming to somewhere they "hate". People who leave are not usually Taliban supporters obviously. Common sense logic like this is why you get very few replies to your posts by the way as there is little point.

There is also a civil war going on in Syria involving other countries also which has nothing to do with Isis. Little point in engaging with you on that as it seems you have no knowledge of whats going on there.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174823#Comment_120174823

A few months ago I observed 3 non-EU passengers refused boarding from an EU country to Ireland. The Swissport staff member in the waiting lounge called immigration in Dublin, Dublin basically told them if you put them on the plane, we'll be sending them back. I was sitting next to the Swissport desk and was cocking my ear listening to the conversation.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175233#Comment_120175233

The very same when you travel to the US / Canada or anywhere else. These countries don't know if you're a raging pedo or a crackhead when you roll up at the immigration desk. The international system of travel would grind to a halt and no one would be able to travel anywhere at short notice if we adopt the vet the hell out of everyone because of right wing cranks.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175419#Comment_120175419

But can anyone deny that Ukrainian people are genuine refugees? Surely nobody could claim that people who have fled their country, which has been invaded and its capital is under regular missile attack, are 'economic migrants'.

If the objection is even to Ukrainian people coming here, then it suggests that the objectors don't want any more refugees arriving into Ireland, even from actual war zones.

On the point of the UK and France, keep in mind that they are sending military aid to Ukraine. It may be that our policy of accepting refugees from there is being framed because we are unable to help them militarily.

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175528#Comment_120175528

With respect, you really dont know what you are talking about.

There is near famine conditions in Afghanistan since the yanks pulled out. The yanks froze the money in the Afghan banks. Afghans come to europe for the free food and money. I can assure you a lot of Afghan refugees absolutely hate Irish values.

You think like a European. You think "I bet if we let these Afghans in they will be really thankful and they wont hate us". While the reality is "All powerful Allah has allowed us into the land of the infidel to spread the one true religion". Cultures just think differently...

ISIS arent in Syria? As I said you dont know what you are talking about.

I served in Iraq. I worked in the Middle East. What's your experience in the Middle East?

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175584#Comment_120175584

Question was, why a disproportionate number are coming here. (Leave aside the fact that Ukraine is an enormous country and vast swathes of it are safe.)

Re France, UK and US, their military aid is of course a large boon to their own flagging industrial sectors. The same can't be said for us taking 70,000+ in the midst of a housing crisis

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175553#Comment_120175553

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/10/06/thousands-of-passengers-destroy-or-lose-passports-before-arrival-at-dublin-airport/

Ok.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175637#Comment_120175637

Not going to believe you served in Iraq or anywhere or work in the middle east unless you can prove that.

As I said, you love your country and government then you will most likely stay to help and improve it. If they are going to die from famine then surely they are legitimate refugees and not economic migrants so I'm glad you feel that Afghans are legitimate. You have your opinion on their mindset as a whole, good luck with that, you'll find agreement from many on here. Not from me. If a country has saved your life by providing refuge then gratitude is there. No point going round in circles with you as I'm sure you love degrading other "cultures".

Read up on the civil war in Syria at the moment. No interest in educating you on that either.

Good luck. Hopefully someone else will entertain your posts and you'll get some replies.

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175736#Comment_120175736

Ehhhmmm ok. When I'm next in the UK I'll take a photo of my body armour and campaign medal.. How do you want me to prove I worked in the Middle East?

What's your experience of working abroad? Zero?

OK, tell you what. The next time you're in Dublin and see a Muslim man and his wife out walking you ask the wife how she is doing. Just make some normal small talk with her, talk about the weather etc. Come back here and tell us how you got on?

While you're at it. You ask them what they think of irish girls that dont cover themselves up?

I'm not saying every Afghan refugee isnt grateful to the irish people. But I'd guess a good 30% really dont like irish culture...

Islamic State produced a monthly magazine. In one issue they had an article detailing why they hated the West. Maybe you should read the article? I believe the main reason they hated us was because we weren't muslims.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175638#Comment_120175638

The situation is far from ideal and nobody can deny that the arrival of 70,000 people in a year isn't putting massive pressure on accommodation in the country. If anything, I'd say the government have handled the Ukrainian refugee issue quite poorly - agreeing in principle to the arrival of tens of thousands of Ukrainians, but without the forward planning in place (this seems to be a recurring theme with their handling of housing and accommodation shortages....they are very poor at planning one or two years down the line).

I think taking in a lot of Ukrainian refugees in the middle of a war is the right thing to do, but it can't be denied for a moment that this is also a huge challenge for the country. I reckon they should be looking for far more radical emergency accommodation solutions and stop using hotels to house refugees - that seems a total cop out and an example of lazy thinking.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167027#Comment_120167027

Survived handsomely?

You are aware that during that era, Irish people here lived in mud and stone single room huts, in abject poverty and squalor with literally only spuds to eat.

That's what I don't get, this harking back to the pre famine era, as if it's some sort of gotcha for those that think there is no capacity problem. It isn't.

In any case, it looks like the hard realities of capacity constraints as well as the increasing difficulty of politically keeping a lid on things has shifted thinking on Merrion st.

Looking forward now to hearing how they are going to attempt to time limit accommodation support without causing an explosion in rough sleeping.