Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175841#Comment_120175841

agreeing in principle to the arrival of tens of thousands of Ukrainians, but without the forward planning in place

Thing is Putin didn't give us any advance warning. Well he did but most people were hoping he wouldn't go through with what he was signalling...

I think any government would have to be improvising on a week-by-week basis in dealing with this situation...

Nosler

Most of Ukraine isnt effected by the war...

However the economy of Ukraine has been destroyed... A lot of Ukrainians have fled because they don't have a job. I can't blame them for fleeing, in their position I'd be doing the exact same.

However maybe there is a better way of helping Ukrainians? How much does it cost to look after a Ukrainian in Ireland? It must cost 100 euro a day? 70,000 Ukrainians at 100 euro is 7 million a day.

That 7 million would go so much further in Ukraine..... Ireland could be shipping off temporary accommodation to ukraine and giving money to people in Ukraine. The war has been going on for a year now. At this stage ireland could have been shipping building supplies over and employing locals to build temporary accommodation.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175800#Comment_120175800

Shur they’ll all come over and Abdul and Maryam will be playing hurling in the local GAA club within a day and the parents will be down the local supping pints.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175736#Comment_120175736

I think your thinking here is similar to the naive thinking of the Americans before the Iraq invasion. That everyone is essentially the same, with the same values and wanting democracy, it is just an evil dictator/mullah etc that is the problem. People don't all have the same values. Religious belief is much stronger than any loyalty or gratitude to the state. Many who come here will find they are at the bottom rung, no skills and difficult to find work. If they are on welfare, then there is resentment from some of the local population (especially those who rely on the state themselves as they are stealing OUR stuff). This is basically what we are seeing now.

The Ukrainian situation is completely different. They are a neighbouring country to the EU and they would have nowhere else to go. So, of course we have to help them as much as possible. I believe this type of case was the intention of the original 1951 UN refugee convention. With the Ukrainians, I would go further and also say they are doing something that we all benefit from in fighting against Russian aggression.

The case in the paper of the Afghan man, mentioned earlier, is completely different for me. I think a lot of people will justifiably wonder why he has come all the way here from Afghanistan. To me, it is about as logical as him seeing the logical course of action is to make his way to Hawaii (in fact Hawaii would make more since since the US was involved in the war).

At the moment we have Europe bearing the brunt of economic refugees from Africa and the ME. The US can cherry pick university professors, scientists and doctors from these areas, who will obviously succeed in their new home. China, Australia, Japan, South Korea and most of the wealthier middle eastern countries take feck all of the type of low skilled economic migrants we get in the EU.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175274#Comment_120175274

Completely incorrect, our rejection rate is 10%, EU average rejection rate is 60%, France rejects 70%

Bobtheman

I think we need a government figure to discuss the issue at length. That rejection rate for instance. To verify it.

I would also reject any violence such as is reported in the papers today. The law must be respected above all else. Attacks on migrants are deplorable.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176553#Comment_120176553

I agree.

Asylum seekers attacking other asylum seekers/migrants such as those in citywest should be deported immediately

MegamanBoo

Don't build hate, build houses.

That's the problem here. We had so much goodwill to the Ukrainian cause last year which is getting lost because of their perceived role in the housing problems we have in this country.

We are a wealthy country, we should not have been running such a housing deficit in the first place.

We were already so short of houses before this happened and this is more pressure on a broken system.

I can only imagine how I'd feel if I had a relative homeless, and watching Ukrainians being homed first.

But it's not those people's fault, it's our governments.

We should never have been running at such a housing deficit in the first place. No one can blame Russia or that being a 'surprise'. The rot has been there for years.

Backstreet Moyes

The fact is that most everyday people did not know much about what is going on due to us having a dishonest media.

But people are starting to see what is going on and are getting fed up.

I was at the self service in dunnes on Saturday and two women were discussing what is happening.

I was out for a few pints yesterday and it was a big discussion and how it's a disgrace.

In a large whatsapp group where a new video of a women naked and attacking a security guard in City west is getting a lot of people annoyed.

Visually we are going to start seeing people sleeping on streets very soon.

It is a disgrace what is going on and I don't see how the government aren't doing anything to address the issue.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176682#Comment_120176682

Ukrainians aren't being housed first, unless you mean being housed in a hotel. They are not getting special treatment over our more "deserving" (arguable if someone on the dole sitting around waiting to be housed is more deserving in my opinion) citizens

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176729#Comment_120176729

Yeah it's quite horrific. Don't know where your from but there's been an upsurge in people on the streets for a while here in Limerick.

Horrible to see people sleeping rough in an Irish winter and with the wealth we have now.

It's crazy but as far as I know rough sleepers aren't even included in our homeless figures. If that isn't massaging the numbers I don't know what is!

Ffg out, out, out.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176756#Comment_120176756

Yes I mean hotels. And these promised modular houses, which I believe still haven't materialized. Pathetic.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176769#Comment_120176769

Also I don't think you're up with what's been going on the last few years if you think it's only people on the dole struggling to get housing.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176775#Comment_120176775

It isn't only those on the dole struggling to get housing, but it is mostly those on the dole expecting the state to house them.

In Fingal, 12% of applicants for social housing are working:

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175528#Comment_120175528

We see what seems to be weekly terror attacks across Europe.

The taliban are obviously sending believers to Europe to carry out terrorist attacks.

People like yourself think ah sure it will be grand, what's the problem with housing men from third world countries who we can't identify.

I mean if I was a leader in the taliban I would be looking at ireland as a great way to get soldiers into Europe to carry out attacks.

I don't think we should have a zero refugee policy but we should for people turning up with no documentation.

If I was a decision maker in the EU I would be getting onto Ireland for making it easy for terrorists to enter Europe.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176799#Comment_120176799

Jaysus you fairly cherry picked your figures there! In other larger areas it's almost as many employed as unemployed.

Also does unemployed include the disabled and retired? Would you have those on the street too?

Nor does this allow that a lot of working people who can't afford housing are excluded from applying for social housing.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176833#Comment_120176833

Wow, almost as many working as not working? That's brilliant and completely negates my point!

I think social housing should be for low income workers, disabled and pensioners. The HAP system should be for those without a history of working. There is a culture here that encourages the types of life choices that result in Fingal's social housing application stats.

Many of the Ukrainians are coming here to work, I have met quite a highly skilled people (several PhDs and even a medical doctor although she isn't recognised here). I would argue that these people will contribute more to the country than our "deserving" citizens who think they are owed everything.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176869#Comment_120176869

Ah ok, I understand what you're saying now.

I appreciate where you're coming from, the only issue I'd take with it is where does that leave the children of the 'undeserving' poor?

I think if you're not a parent and not working, you're lucky for the state to be providing any basic housing for you.

But is it fair bringing up kids on a lower tier like that?

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176903#Comment_120176903

They would still have HAP. Which of course is not as good as social housing as you might have to move from time to time. But, due to it being less desirable, it means it will encourage people to make the kind of choices that get you onto the social housing list. This is benefit for everyone. It also has the advantage of not concentrating LWI households in the one area.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176831#Comment_120176831

The taliban are obviously sending believers to Europe to carry out terrorist attacks.

That is a fairly meaty claim, please provide evidence?

I mean if that is true they are in direct violation of the agreement they have with the US and Kabul command would be levelled.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176948#Comment_120176948

By replying you are taking him seriously. I'm sure some groups are attempting that but the taliban have enough on their plate ruining their own nation

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176682#Comment_120176682

Catchy line but pure rubbish. Who's going to build the houses? Do you think there's loads of builders sitting at home at the minute waiting for the phone to ring?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176799#Comment_120176799

Just dont look up the nationalities of those on the housing list!

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176948#Comment_120176948

I have no interest in entertaining you.

Everytime me or anyone else asks you to back up a claim you deflect and never back it up.

So I will do as you do when asked to back up a statement and ignore the request.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177106#Comment_120177106

So you invented a scenario in your head with the sole purpose to scare monger?

Would that be accurate?

It certainly isn't unique.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177062#Comment_120177062

Indeed. The problem is though certain people will believe the nonsense.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177065#Comment_120177065

The Poles & Turks that built modern Ireland, can surely rustle up a few hundred thousand houses for us?

Seriously though, there's an army of people who think that just building more houses will fix everything, while ignoring the obvious of course, that being that it's nearly impossible to build enough houses to catch up with the problem. Even if we built a hundred thousand houses in the morning, it would barely put a dent in the problem. Sadly, Ireland is a nation full of people with child like solutions to real problems.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177150#Comment_120177150

It would go a long distance towards solving it. One thing I know is if you believe that tons of builders are waiting to be signed up to building government/public houses and also expected to raise finance you are pretty naive. However the government has recently decided to provide finance but its a bureaucratic nightmare.

A developer I know said he went into a coma on page 60 of the guide.

Economics101

The refugee issue has been caught up in the longer-term housing problem.

To understand this you have to go back to the Celtic Tiger boom and bust. This left a swathe of bankruptcies in its trail which destroyed capacity in the building industry and made lending for housing seem a much more risky proposition. On top of that we had an embarrassing housing surplus for a few years (remember all those ghost estates?).

No wonder policy turned to foreign capital for housing finance: let others take on some of the risk, having almost ruined our economy with excessive exposure of Irish banks. In addition, social housing got caught up in this big disruption of 2008-13.

So what we are seeing now is to some extent the long-term damage done by the Great Recession. Pile in extra demand from refugees and asylum seekers and you have just an extra source of pressure on housing.

maccored

no point blaming refugees or having a zero refugee policy. how about a government that either doesnt make promises it cant keep or else figures out how to keep its word.