Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

ECookie13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136624#Comment_122136624

That is scandalous. No wonder you hear stories of Ukrainians signing up for 3rd level and not attending. I'm sure they also get their dole, deposited directly into their account, along with their free medical and travel cards.

And the cheek of some of them to be moaning about the cuts this morning and "challenging" it, on their Facebook groups.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136263#Comment_122136263

This is a convenient fig leaf being raised post event. There was no discussion that I recall, that Ireland would take in more war refugees and give them better benefits that other EU states, in lieu of military aid.

Funnily exactly this point was being raised by some lad called McEneaney in an interview earlier.

We misjudged the length of the conflict, we've rightly offered shelter to genuine war refugees for the duration of the conflict, whence they may return to rebuild their state.

gral6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135604#Comment_122135604

It is not enough at all. They should be moved out of State accommodation with exception of single women with their children and disabled people. I'm sick of seeing fighting age, health men drinking daily outside their state provided hotel accommodation. No English after 2.5 years here, no job….hilarious.

Honestly , these men should be deported straight away. They can do something good for their own country, help it against russian nazies. They are not wanted here at all.

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133714#Comment_122133714

if the IPO has not made a decision on your application within 5 months , you can apply for permission to work.

So people can work without a decision been made. I don't know how long they can continue to work if their decision is denied or if they appeal how many appeals do they have or can they continue to work whilst the appeal process is been used.

A long dragged out process by the looks of it

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136648#Comment_122136648

No. As I said in my original post I believe the two immigration threads are attracting some traffic that is not elsewhere .

The titles do draw more anti than pro because of the way they are worded.

Eg ."How can we change/ manage our refugee situation better ?'" doesn't have the same bite to it but would be a little more attractive to posters who don't necessarily want to stop all asylum seekers .

As it is there are just a few of us who are posting here who are not against , although that situation is rapidly becoming more difficult to maintain given our government's response to this .

I keep seeing posts accusing 5 or 6 posters of effectively ruining the thread , just because they don't go with the main narrative .

Some are left , some centrist .but our opinions /input are not wanted . Or are deemed invalid because it is not what the majority say they think here .

That's unfair and goes against what a discussion forum is about .

I happen to think that some , not all, opinions here are ill founded , on spurious reports from SM and X and some right wing SM hacks and deserve to be picked apart , .Just like you and others think mine are, no doubt .

And good luck to you .That's what it's about .

Otherwise we may all stick to WhatsApp or social media groups that don't discuss a subject .Echo chambers .

But "popular opinion " here ..does that mean that the "popular " opinion is the correct one or just that it's popular ? At this time?

Are well thought through opinions , against the thread ..invalid , just because they are not on the popular side on a particular thread ?

I am saying that that is an unfair comment and calling that particular trope out .

That was what my original op was about and why I am bringing it back to that .

I never said that this thread does not reflect public opinion but I would disagree that it or any boards thread reflects ACTUAL public opinion accurately.

It can't .

It is a select group posting . Called for, by the title .

The fact that some opinion polls might agree with some of the opinions on the thread from time to time is nothing to do with the thread being reflective , just that posters like to think that .

When opinion polls last few months were saying people were still supportive of asylum seekers posters here did not think those polls reflected their opinions .

But they were real opinion polls as the recent ones posted here .

There are provisos with all polls and confounding factors but hey they are more valid than what any of us can surmise on a thread on boards

So which is it ?

A microcosm of public opinion ,

Or a concentration of posters who are of one opinion mainly drawn to a particular thread , because, let's face it , there is no other thread on boards now , where they can voice that particular opinion without too much push back ?

Not quite the same as representing public opinion .

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136724#Comment_122136724

Nobody realised that the war would go on for years. The assumption was that it would somehow end by August or September 2022 with a ceasefire and that life in Ukraine would slowly return to normal. All of this stuff about Ukrainian people being supposedly a major 'burden' on Ireland only began to kick off in the media and elsewhere in late 2023, early 2024 - a good 18 months or more after the war started.

ECookie13

This is also sickening to read, about the additional FREE benefits they get for being in college.

https://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/ukraine-students-in-ireland

And FREE English lessons to boot, yet the majority of them have not a word of English still. Seriously, what do they have to pay for out of their own pockets, apart from booze?

Archduke Franz Ferdinand

it’s about time that these crazy benefits were stopped

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136917#Comment_122136917

Are the free English lessons really that much of an issue??

And my girlfriend teaches a class in a working class area of Dublin with Ukrainian students and seems to think they are doing OK in learning English or improving it. Apparently a couple of them also showing more interest in Irish than the Irish kids. But I'm guessing that's also sickening too.

corkie

The Council adopts the EU's pact on migration and asylum

• Today the Council adopted a landmark reform of the European asylum and migration system. This establishes a set of rules that will help to manage arrivals in an orderly way, create efficient and uniform procedures and ensure fair burden sharing between member states.
• Member states will now have two years to put the laws that were adopted today into practice. The European Commission will soon present a common implementation plan to provide assistance to member states in this process.

https://twitter.com/SenatorKeogan/status/1790338446675804504

Ireland abstaining is more political than OPT-IN/OPT-OUT at this stage of the vote, EU elections pending.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137023#Comment_122137023

I don't think there is much issue with free English lessons. To be honest, a working knowledge of English is essential for employment here so I'd actually make English lessons a condition of receiving a stipend, unless they have a demonstrated proficiency.

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136615#Comment_122136615

Switzerland, the most famous neutral country of all (and the most expensive) pays on average 500 Swiss francs / €510 per month to Ukrainians

On average, the country pays about 500 Swiss francs for an adult and 250 francs for a child, but no more than 2000 francs for a family.

For example, Maryna Gomeniuk, a refugee from Ukraine, said that she received 1650 francs for two adults and two children. She also noted that the canton can additionally reimburse the cost of tickets.

If Maryna had to have been in Ireland she would got €2136 / 2093 Swiss francs monthly for the two adults & two children.

Not only that, according to the article, Switzerland are likely to start giving Ukrainians incentives (money) to go back home, while in Ireland, we’re only starting to discuss the likelihood of us cutting the most generous welfare in Europe to the majority of Ukrainians we have living here.

https://visitukraine.today/blog/1858/in-switzerland-ukrainians-are-offered-money-to-return-home-how-to-get-2000-francs

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136623#Comment_122136623

In that mostly anecdotal blog post it says border crossing attempts dropped from 40K to 17k the year it was built. Over 50% reduction. Then last year it was 25k, still a 38% reduction. I am not in favour of using that approach here but saying it hasn't been effective is a bit of a stretch.

Juran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136379#Comment_122136379

Same with our dog, we bring her to France every year, so I'm very familar with the pet passport and pet travel in and out of Ireland process.

No dog, cat, ferret can land in UK or Ireland without this passport ie. Microchip, rabies vaccine & health check by vet. Ukraine pets were not given a choice, if they wanted to bring their pet into Ireland, they had to get the vaccine, chip, register, etc. At the port of entry. The exception was they had to keep the pet away from other animals for 21 days (the period the vaccines requires to become effective). They had to keep their pets in their temporary accomidation / back garden for 21 days minimun, and could be subject to random checks by Dept of Agriculture officals during that 21 day period to ensure they complied.

I have no issue with our government paying for cost of refugee's pets, they are part of their family.

The point I was making is that our government can manage, register, trace pets coming into the country to ensure full compliance, but can't seem to do the same with people.

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136917#Comment_122136917

Unreal. College fees waived, monthly maintenance payment €1,150, plus the free accommodation to boot. Accommodation of course which has become even more expensive for non Ukrainian students due to scarcity because some refugees are being housed in former student accommodation.

It’s all non-means tested too for Ukrainians. The most wealthy Ukrainians can send their kids to college for free here, but any working Irish parents barely over the low threshold get nothing. Absolute joke!

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136668#Comment_122136668

Hopefully, but at the point that they are at Calais it's just whack a mole as they'll continue to pop up wherever they are tolerated. We really,really just need a common sense policy at EU level and no more shopping around for the best deal.

God only knows what all this is costing in terms of policing and endless immigration tribunals not to mention feeding, housing and clothing all these people.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137102#Comment_122137102

Can I just interject here to say that I personally know an Irish migrant worker in Switzerland who is out of work there and is being paid a frankly astounding amount in unemployment benefit. He is entitled to 70% of his salary — paid for by the State — in circumstances where he was earning well over €100k a year. Doing very little at the moment and swanning about on trips to Italy and France, skiing etc.

So this unemployed Irish migrant worker is being paid more in Switzerland currently on unemployment benefit than I am in Ireland in full time employment. Food for thought when we compare with other countries.

dmakc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136880#Comment_122136880

I'm just asking constructively GG, but can you please lay out your posts better? One line paragraph after another is a really uninviting read. And I'm sorry, but this thread could have the most pro-Immigration title possible, I'm afraid it's not going to change the theme. The public opinion has been influenced by:

• Public's taxes being squandered on IPA's abusing the system
• Hotels closing to the public, tourism on its knees, jobs lost
• "No community has a veto on who lives beside them" *except the more affluent areas apparently
• Government gaslighting. The very same opinions branded as "racist/far-right" two years ago, are finding their way into "sensible" government policies now.
• The countries leading the IPA league table, where no wars are happening. Where Irish people go on Holidays.
• etc. (seriously, I could go all day)

The vast majority of the public have had enough as recent polls show, just like same majority here have had enough as the comments/likes will show.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137344#Comment_122137344

You can’t help yourself can you?

Again conflating legal migration of a guy probably paying 50%+ of his high income in tax now being unemployed(obviously he’s paid enough stamps to be entitled to his level of welfare) -

with illegal migration and bogus asylum claims (the topic of this thread)

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137213#Comment_122137213

A 38% reduction for that kind of outlay? You think that's effective?

The EU also lobbied middle-eastern airlines not to fly direct to Minsk in the same time so perhaps this played a part in the reduction.

It would seem workarounds have been developed for this too, with many now flying to Moscow and then travelling to the Polish border, perhaps explaining the decreasing effectiveness.

https://balkaninsight.com/2023/07/19/how-smugglers-bring-migrants-into-eu-despite-polands-new-wall-on-belarus-border/

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137251#Comment_122137251

The clever Ukrainians are those who can work remotely from Ireland and bank their salary while living in free accommodation, no bills, un-means tested medical card and social welfare, free education. Its a wonder more haven't moved here.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137233#Comment_122137233

Perhaps the animals are stopped now, but initially for the first year, animals were allowed through to Ireland without the necessary treatment and vaccinations. They were told to present themselves to a vet and then the tab collected by the state when the animal had got what was needed. I suspect many many animals belonging to Ukrainians are still around in this country without been taken to a vet.

And I object wholly to it being free, and now especially. Completely no need for it.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137474#Comment_122137474

Not true that they don't have any bills. Any Ukrainains in state accommodation have to pay €10 a day for food (bringing down their weekly payment to around €150 a week). And are there many Ukrainians working remotely for Ukrainian based companies whilst in Ireland? It doesn't seem very likely.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136903#Comment_122136903

That's more or less as how I read it. And it's a good bit past time to correct this course. As Jim O'Callaghan said earlier, it'll be tough on those who have been getting max benefits but the state also has a duty to manage it's own finances fairly and to bring us more into line both with those who've arrived more recently and with other EU states.

There will be a lot of hard luck/ sob stories coming up in the media both from Ukrainians and those representing them but there's a new reality and a readjustment needed.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137402#Comment_122137402

And seemingly you can't help yourself from getting a bit wound up whenever Irish migrants are brought up, right?

The thread is about refugees and the "bogus" economic migrants, which ultimately is a form of migration. It is perfectly valid to bring up attitudes towards foreign refugees / migrants and compare those to the way in which we view our compatriot migrants or relatively wealthy Western migrants in general. Try dig out stories of migrants or refugees getting paid while not working, plop them in here, and I doubt it will be long before the moaning brigade kick off about the cheek of that chancer etc etc. Have the temerity to mention an Irish migrant being on unemployment benefits that are higher than full time professionals are paid in Dublin and using that for lovely trips in the Alps? Well — suddenly nuance applies!

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137517#Comment_122137517

What of those living in rooms with householders being paid €800 a month tax free I think. Ideal setup to work from home, office & accommodation paid for. Meanwhile pushed up the rates for long suffering parents from down the country paying for students whilst at college. There are multiple facets to the rising dissatisfaction with how this is panning out and affecting the middle classes.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137023#Comment_122137023

its sickening to Russians who are using the immigration problems to spread their hate against Ukrainians and drive deep divisions into our democracy so we more readily accept their vision of oligarchic dystopia where young kids die in the mud of another country for dear leader

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137517#Comment_122137517

Why would you think it unlikely there’s many working remotely here? I would imagine many Ukrainian organizations made allowances for staff to work remotely (a bit like how companies here made accommodations for WFH during the pandemic). Ukraine is not shut down - in many, many places it’s business as usual, and they still need staff to keep the company running. Why wouldn’t a single IT worker, for example, move here while still working remotely?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137543#Comment_122137543

You could definitely argue that the government got carried away with their open door for Ukrainian people in the first six months of the war and weren't factoring in that the war could go on for much, much longer. They should have had a contingency plan in place for a scenario where the war didn't end in 2022 and went on for years instead. Perhaps they would have been moving towards tightening up payments and benefits and so on a lot earlier than Spring 2024.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137557#Comment_122137557

Assuming this person legally has employment and payed whatever the equivalent income taxes are in Switzerland and given the unemployment is time limited, how is that in anyway comparable?