Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

REDBULL68

Don't need a border (never worked)it's all about stopping the financial incentive to travel here, many of the migrants have been in other countries, but when it wasn't lucrative to stay there, they moved on ,go to to any post office during the week, western union is on fire with money being sent back to to their families that are living in the war zones ,indeed some are even going home on holiday to the war zones,and posting horrific videos of them and hundreds of people suffering horrific sun tan on the beach ,I'm happy my tax money is paying for your factor 50 ,

dominatinMC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135449#Comment_122135449

I'm not advocating for a hard border at all. Simply relaying the message that people are getting increasingly frustrated about immigration - resulting in this kind of irrational, knee-jerk reponse.

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134139#Comment_122134139

The following link is from the Australian Red cross and is quite useful to understand the Australian system.

https://www.redcross.org.au/act/help-refugees/refugee-facts/#:~:text=Australia%20reported%20that%20during%20the,lodged%20from%20outside%20of%20Australia.

All AS who arrive by boat illegally without a visa are indefinitely detained offshore with no exceptions.

The only AS who are allowed to remain while their claims are processed are foerign nationals who arrived with a valid visa and subsequently try to claim asylum when the visa expires.

These are often Chinese who came over on a student visa. Chinese people work hard and don't join gangs like some other nationalities so most Australians are ok with the current situation.

It's quite difficult to get a visa and you need to provide all sorts of police background checks and pass an English test.

It's a system that we could easily emulate.

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135074#Comment_122135074

It's quite likely that 3-4 million Irish people are against unlimited illegal immigration into the country. In that number you will have plenty of head the balls as it becomes a larger and larger percentage of the population.

The presence of a few fools doesn't invalidate the opinions of the majority. The NGO's have really been the lunatics running the asylum here for the past couple of years so time for the other side to have a run.

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134961#Comment_122134961

Why should someone be quiet about this issue. It's this fear of causing offence that allows this crazy situation to develop.

All of this could easily have been avoided with a bit of courage and enforcing laws that are already on the statute book both here and at Europe's external borders.

It's time that illegal migration is punished as it is a crime and it does have a huge cost to society.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135235#Comment_122135235

I'm not sure about that. I took am a centrist and like to judge each issue in it's merits.

This gets attention cos it's such an obvious visible balls up by the government (similar to children's hospital), and it's been a slow moving car crash for years. Poor or no enforcement of laws and little to no transparency. And people see and feel the effect of this complete balls up every day.

zell12

Government "promise" to cut all Ukrainians' payments to 38.30/week. I smell an election

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/thousands-of-ukrainian-refugees-to-have-their-welfare-cut-to-same-rate-as-new-arrivals-under-new-plans/a271537504.html

pc7

iirc Boards polls were bang on with how the last two referenda would go, long before it was seen in the main. I’ll try find threads. But think both were saying ‘No’ so I don’t believe this thread is wrong or we’re all off the wall.

john123470

https://youtu.be/Ii8P5bxK0EM?si=nnFqvHzyhH2zIV_j

^ this is who theyre inviting into the country - in their hordes. Not doctors, nurses but freeloaders. This chap will have an Irish passport in a few years. Then he will bring his extended family here and their views on how one should live life will radically differ to yours and mine. Differ radically

Our national broadcaster RTE seem to be under threat not to report on this issue - all we hear is how great it is that economic migrants aka "refugees" are being bussed in their thousands around the country to accommodation that does not exist.

Listening to Brendan O Connnor on Sunday morning news programne will tell you all you need to know. All sunshine n roses. No it isnt, Brendan and you know it.

How on earth can the caretakers of our country - the varadkers, mcentees, o gormans, micheal Martins inflict this upon their people.

Just how ?

It beggars belief. These Statesmen / women are directly responsible for this new Ireland.

The American in the video above can see where this is heading and he's just passing through !!

And where is it heading ? Well, take a ramble thru downtown Luton, Bradford and you'll have a good idea

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135531#Comment_122135531

I had to do that English exam for my visa in Australia, despite being a native English speaker. The test was hilarious, a listening exam, written, and then an oral exam to finish. I was the only native speaker in the room, all the other lads were trying to ask me in broken English what was I doing there. The oral exam was wrapped up after about 30 seconds when the examiner realised I was Irish.

But the rules in Australia when it comes to immigration are the rules. They don't flute around, and it works!

tom23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135625#Comment_122135625

Guy in combats Looks like a lovely chap… from Dublin? No pal you're not and never will be.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135604#Comment_122135604

I don't think Ukranians are the refugees people are most concerned about, let's be honest. Ukrainian families and their children have integrated really well in to many communities across the country. I don't think we should force them out.

I would say they are the profile of immigrants Ireland needs.

The government should be more nuanced in my opinion. If they have families and are deemrd to be well adjusted in the community I wouldn't cut their welfare.

There are others that need this aproach from the government.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135282#Comment_122135282

Just on that point, if there were to be another crash, the irony should not escape us that we would end up relying on migration to allow many Irish people to make a good living abroad.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135728#Comment_122135728

and on that point this thread is about illegal migration not legal migration - If many Irish decided to arrive in the US or AUS and claim asylum then you might have a point.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135682#Comment_122135682

It's interesting that you say this. Firstly, as an aside, I agree that the integration of Ukrainians who end up staying in Ireland is not a source of huge concern for me. 10-20 years from now, they will be well-embedded, intermarried and indeed having kids here with Irish spouses and partners. Though we can never be complacent to this — I'd like to see more done to promote the Irish language, Gaelic games, Irish music etc — not so much out of misty eyed cultural preservation but because I think these things offer a unifying cultural band across all children being educated in the State and hopefully a stronger sense of integration.

But the other point here is that the massive influx of IPAs we experienced was directly as a result of the war in Ukraine (and the post Covid international travel bottleneck) otherwise, we really do not take in amounts of IPAs in the normal course that are as earth shattering as many would make out.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135728#Comment_122135728

Do the Irish claim asylum/refugee status or do they apply for visas?

Thelonious Monk

If social media is anything to go by there's a lot of anger towards Ukrainians too, people thinking they should just move to a different part of the country etc. I'd be outta there pronto if I thought the Russians would show up sooner or later.

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135604#Comment_122135604

They got there eventually - never was sustainable to have some Ukrainians on 230 and others on 38 based purely on how early they fled the war. Typical Irish virtue signalling to be totally out of kilter with the rest of Europe on welfare rates then feign surprise at the "unprecedented" numbers coming here.

StrawbsM

I looked a few months back at asylum stats. Less than 10 Irish citizens tried to claim asylum in Australia in 2022 or 2023 and all claims were rejected.

I also know someone that overstayed their visa and was caught. They weren’t asked “pretty please, will you bring yourself to the airport when you're ready and leave?” No, they were arrested, locked up in a cell and when booked, they were brought to the plane. Same process happens in the states.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135682#Comment_122135682

I think the issue is that the welfare system must be fair and not in any way be an advantage to be Ukrainian . The Irish and Eu citizen and those who live here are means tested if they dont have enough PRSI or other EU equivalent contributions . Ukrainians were given €230 a week with no means test no questions asked etc . By all means if they are to stay they must in my opinion be subject to the same means testing as the others who are resident here are .Medical cards were handed out but as far as I know they are now means tested too .

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135312#Comment_122135312

Most have significantly more. It's weird Irish exceptionalism.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135791#Comment_122135791

Everything about the Ukrainian system was done for expediency in a time of uncertainty. One can argue about the timeframes, but it makes sense to regularise their situation at this point.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135682#Comment_122135682

On a purely practical level, the outrage of IPAs would not be as prevalent (I suspect, I don't know obviously) without the Ukrainian situation having hoovered up every last bit of prior available accommodation. It makes the problem far more noticeable.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135821#Comment_122135821

Yes I understand that but two years later this now must be addressed in my opinion .

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135531#Comment_122135531

The Australians had abandoned the offshoring process. I think they might have re-introduced it in the last year or so under the Liberal gov.

When in operation it didn't seem to have any impact on the relatively small number of boats arriving.

While Operation Sovereign Borders remains controversial, both major parties in Australia - the right-wing Liberals and left-wing Labor - still support the policies behind it. They argue the country's success lies in the policy mix working together to deter asylum seekers.

But there are those who believe the offshore processing had little - if any - impact.

It was re-introduced by Labor in 2012 and the facilities in Papua New Guinea and Nauru quickly filled up.

"Two months in, the government was saying, 'We've already had more people arrive than we'll ever be able to accommodate offshore, and so we're going to start releasing some people into the community in Australia,'" says refugee law expert Madeline Gleeson.

And so the Labor government did a reset - emptying the centres and bringing migrants to Australia, before trying again. This time adding a promise that anyone seeking asylum in Australia by boat would never be settled here, even if they were found to be a refugee.

That didn't seem to slow the number of boats either, Ms Gleeson says.

And so when the Liberal-National coalition took over in late 2013, they pivoted to boat turnbacks - something which Labor had opposed - and the number of migrant boat arrivals dropped dramatically.

One boat arrived in 2014, down from 300 the year before, and no others have arrived since - though it is unknown how many boats have since been intercepted and returned before reaching Australian shores.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-64898507

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135791#Comment_122135791

Jobseekers allowance rate in 2022 was €232

Irish resident - Paid a contribution towards rent (hap or council tenant). Paid for their own food, electricity, gas, heating oil, broadband, mobile. They would probably have received a fuel allowance.

Ukrainian - paid for none of the above

Who had more money in their pocket at the end of the week?

marno21

The thinking behind the Ukraine rate cuts is that in doing so it may encourage anyone on the fence about being in Ireland to return, thereby freeing up accommodation which can be used to relieve the accommodation shortage which is leading to the tent cities around the capital.

The next step after the welfare cuts will be sunset clauses on the state provided accommodation I'm sure.

Ivan Yates flagged this on his podcast last Friday. Seems there's a certain level of impetus to actually address some of the facets of this challenge under the new Taoiseach that wasn't there when the personification of arrogance was in charge of the country.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135863#Comment_122135863

the changes have nothing to do with change of Taoiseach. It’s panic over election outcome. Harris has been on the cabinet on this time. I should note that all of the recent messaging is government is too look at various aspects. Nothing concrete. It’s talk. They have had 2 years of taxpayers pointing out the wrongs here and they did nothing.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135750#Comment_122135750

I might have a point? Is what I said a factual statement or not? Irish migrants abroad are economic migrants either needing to move abroad to find better work/pay or, in many cases, simply looking for a different experience of life and to have fun (the ultimate expression of the privilege we enjoy in the Western world when it comes to migration really).

Whether they do so legally or illegally, the base element that connects all migrants is there — they are all people going abroad to find something they perceive to be better for themselves. Whether it's survival, climbing out of poverty, or wanting to surf on Bondi Beach after clocking off for the week from a corporate law firm in Sydney — the base connecting element remains. They also all take up space, resources and housing, regardless of whatever contributions they make.

For some reason, the mere mention of this does seem to really grind people. It's almost like a knee-jerk reaction of "he's saying the Irish migrate too so it's OK for other migrants to come here in uncontrolled numbers". But the comparison is there.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135531#Comment_122135531

I'd love to know where these ideas about Australia's system as some sort of ideal solution come from.

While they've had some success physically turning back boats (which has been tried and failed in the EU), they still have problems.

A recent report, the Nixon report, was highly critical of their politically motivated emphasis on stopping a small boats, highlighting the growing problems they now have with abuses of the visa system.

A scathing secret report has found poor management of the nation’s already inadequate immigration and visa laws and a focus on stopping boat arrivals allowed organised crime syndicates involved in human trafficking and drug smuggling to flourish.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/grotesque-abuses-secret-review-of-migration-system-scathing-of-failures-20230419-p5d1ms.html

Ms Nixon found the immigration system was “seriously and systemically” broken, allowing for the perpetration of sexual slavery, human trafficking, and organised crime to go virtually unchecked.

She concluded migrant worker exploitation was essentially a design feature of the system, and urged the government to protect temporary migrants from the “grotesque abuses” as a matter of urgency.

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/turned-a-blind-eye-peter-dutton-savaged-by-government-after-damning-review-of-australian-visa-system/news-story/dfe61e5421d49ee52d3d12a25c0dbd65