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Clamp down on NV equipment liscenses and sales?

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  • 16-01-2023 2:32pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭


    It seems our Guardians of law and order have been contacting gun dealers throughout the land, stating that there are to be no further sales of NV " mountable weapons systems" to anyone without the appropriate box tick on their licenses. Can anyone confirm this?

    it was a big feature on the latest Irish hunting podcast and on their FB page. It was actually scary to hear how little everyone seemed to know about the legislation governing the use of these. Since they have only been legislated since 1990 on the offensive weapons act. I wonder is this also a flare-up and the reason the minister extended the FEC to examine the use of NV in Ireland with firearms.

    As for AGS doing this now.

    Bolting the stable door long after all the farm animals have departed. When you can look up Aliexpress and buy a good knockoff of a PARD clip-on NV unit for under 500 euros, and Ukraine, of all places, is now selling a thermal clip-on unit that is actually a battle-tested design for under 1,500 euros.

    Wonder would it make sense to just take these and silencers OFF the legislation of describing them as "firearms" and just accept if you have a license you buy these as accessories and be done with it? Might be like thinking and trusting us licensed gun owners I know...

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,035 ✭✭✭clivej


    Well I ticked the scope box on my renewal forms. Never heard any more about it. And where on the license would show that you have permission?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭minktrapper


    I presume they will be reissueing all licences with the necessary amendments written on them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    I have ticked section 4.2 and requested NV on all my guns.

    I never received any conditions directly related to the use of NV except some statement or condition that night shooting was only permitted to protect crops or livestock….

    What I have heard is that the AGS are going wild as the number of NV applicants far exceeds the number of NV units that have been registered as sold through dealers.

    Apparently, RFD have been asked to verify that buyers are authorised to have this item.

    The facts are the the same erroneous mis conception has most likely circulated full circle and now AGS think that NV users need written permission for NV.

    As I see it, this written permission is not required except that you must identify the desire to use a specific NV scope in the FCA1.

    What they need to do is start putting NV beside the S and then shooters can satisfy deals requests.

    Regards Ivan



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭minktrapper


    Do ye think NV sights are safer than other methods of illuminating at night. I think it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭ace86


    Was to a firearms dealer over Xmas he showed me the letter he got from the department of justice stating exactly what you are saying grizzly. I think the whole application for firearms needs a serious overhauling in my eyes , you can tick boxes for a scope suppressor etc and when u get ur licence most people take it for granted you have what you requested until your stopped and prosecuted for not having them. I waited 6 months for a substitution last year the worst I have encountered in my career so far and know a friend of friend in another county had a new licence in 2 weeks. I have no issue with the use of NC or thermal for vermin control and are very popular in the UK I believe in the last few years. I wonder is it bcos these units are being used for poaching more so deer maybe? Or did someone watch 2 many James Bond and Jason bourne movies and wet themselves and think of some sort of Armageddon could happen here if people have these units.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    Guys its not just NV its magazine capacity to, Was talking to my local FO last week about renewals I have in, and she asked me about the magazine capacity of the rifle and pistol, she said THEIR asking about them. I took it that she was referring to her bosses.

    There was no mention of capacity from her late last year on substitution I had in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    50/50. If you are shooting on ground you know and can properly SEE at night be it in either a lamp or NV,and know where the safe backstops are.It should be good.The advantage to using a lamp is that if you are shooting an area that might have public access or that for some reason someone might wander into your night shooting,at least they can see an active light source and either avoid or make themselves known to you. NV /Thermal great if you have very light shy animals.But otherwise, you have to be 100% certain of your target, backstops and possibly what's behind the limit of the vision field of your equipment.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    Yep the FO rang me and wanted to know the capacity of my renewals.

    He said that he wanted to know the max capacity including the total with one in the chamber..



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Out of curiosity was that for a rifle, pistol or shotgun?

    Since rifle & pistol both specify magazine capacity vs shotgun is the number of rounds it can hold(ie including the chamber, so a non restricted shotgun can only hold 3 rounds, 1 in the chamber and 2 in the mag/tube).


    Not that I'd expect most FOs to know the difference there.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    they we rifles..

    I got the licence today and the requirements are that I take the bolt out and store it separately.. That’s fine on a bolt gun but they instructed me to remove the bolt when storing my 22lr S/A

    Yes you might have to be a gun smith now to own a 22sa.. lol



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,335 ✭✭✭J.R.


    received by some licence holders of rifles



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    SHEESH!! That's a very friendly gesture and service by aGS!

    TRANS; You may have something illegal in your possession if you mount it on a firearm because you didn't know the law!

    No, bother, We'll get you back on the straight and narrow, just give us a holler by phone or email and we'll sort out your "mistake" with an updated license.

    Your local Garda Superintendent.

    I seriously hope this will be a NATIONWIDE letter to ALL gun owners,as I'll be putting in an application for NV on ALL my guns in this case.

    NOWHERE else in the World but Ireland would you get a letter or service like this!!![Unless it is of course a sting operation to find out who has a NV weapons mountable system!]


    In the US it would be an ATF letter in the public domain, that you may or may not see depending on how much you pay gun matters attention, declaring some other bit of a gun illegal, and TRANS it would be;

    IF you have something we have just decided arbitrarily in BATFE is now a "silencer" "destructive device" machine gun" [Like a plastic bump stock or pistol brace if we can get away with it] "Any other weapon" short barrelled shotgun or a "sawn off shotgun"

    You have from the date of this notice 31 days to either;

    Destroy it by cutting it all up,and /or handing it into your local law enforcement/sheriffs dept.

    We will give you JACK S compensation for it too,as it is now illegal contraband retroactively!

    Or if we find out you have such still after this date.We are gonna do a Waco raid on your and your family sorry asses at oh dark hundred. Shoot your dogs, total your house and business, and make sure you get a ten-year vacation in Club Fed on a felony charge for owning a now illegal machine gun.

    Have a nice day!

    BATFE

    On some things the grass is definitely greener in Ireland!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭kunekunesika


    Strange????

    Usually they are trying to remove permission for stuff I had permission for? Very strange.

    Do I get to complain if I don't get a letter?



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭Mississippi.


    I like their line "we will amend your license on the computer to specifically state that you have permission to have this type of scope" as if it'll be an automatic permission unlike the nonsense with moderators currently, some areas you won't be granted them , other areas no matter how many rifles you have only one of them is granted a suppressor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭lefthooker


    Is that letter being sent to every license holder in the state?

    Is this going to a be a district wide administrative exercise or like with moderators, down to the individual superintendent’s mood?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Well now that this letter is in the public domain via boards here. They will have to honour this nationwide,as it is obviously an official Garda communication to license holders in a certain district and division. So J.R. you can "fess up and tell us what district/division decided on this?

    What the back story is to this is irrelevant now, whether it was a local Super trying to sort out a mess in his district by being a nice guy,and Kudos to him for trying too.Or whether this is a communication from The Park,to sort out anything that might have come up from the FEC and the minister extending their inquiry for 3 months into NCV and nite shooting?

    Either which way...Make this viral! Let everyone know about this everywhere as I reckon "license readjustments" for NV are going to be a thing in 2023.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭itisnotgrand


    Infairness they are a v nice super to be so generous to grant out amendments to licences. Makes me think is it a fishing exercise. But really as we’re already registered gun holders it doesnt matter and why not take a freebie while it’s going. Does this include thermal vision? And are lasers classified as a firearm?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Does this include thermal vision? And are lasers classified as a firearm?

    Yup. all covered in the offensive weapons act 1990[1]?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Asus1


    Are thermal and NV spotter's included in this as I'd know a fair few bird people who have both which they use for counts and ringing fledglings.Or is it just anything that can be fitted to a fireman.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Any light emitting or amplifying device.

    If it's a handheld device and remains detached from the firearm you need no permissions.

    However scopes, as in rifle scopes that have any of the functions listed above, are classed as firearms in themselves and so need authorisation regardless of whether they are attached to a firearm or not.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,335 ✭✭✭J.R.


    "fess up and tell us what district/division decided on this?


    I've no idea what district - although I do have a .22 rifle I did not receive this letter.

    I saw it posted on many of the Irish Shooting Sites on Facebook.

    None of them revealed what district sent it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭Mississippi.


    I would imagine in a matter of time it will be down to the individual superintendents mood.

    That's why I am worried about it



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    So it came the full circle from FB/social media to here and went back out again.🤣

    Thought.If this is nationwide,and with PULSE being in its dire condition with 6months delay in some cases to do subs etc.What will a possible massive influx of corrected liscenses do to the system?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    Sure how do you know if you have a corrected FAC?

    I have applied for NV on all my guns and not once did I see any confirmation except to say that I received the FAC without impediment..

    By rights they should have started putting NV on the licences..



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Only way I could tell in the past was by contacting the FO after grant and making sure sights were granted on pulse.


    Did the same with a licence that arrived that should have had an S on it too, but didn't.

    Seemingly it had Suppressor ticked on pulse but they hadn't printed the S on the licence.

    Got a new one sent out with the S, but weird circumstance, very weird.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,335 ✭✭✭J.R.


    it may be due to a clampdown on unlicensed firearms held




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kat1170


    Clampdown on unlicensed firearms ????

    There was I thinking unlicensed firearms were illegal all the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Wonder how many of these forms are possibly sitting in someone's IN tray in the Wexford division, and are old guys/gals that AGS are raiding who aren't up on this whole procedure anymore,or just haven't a clue on how to dispose of the guns? Anyhoo,it would seem a very odd way to go about dealing with unlicensed NV is just one district.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    UPDATE.

    RE the above letter on NV from Jan 20th 2023. YES ! That is a genuine letter , and all stations and divisions know this situation with NV... That's the good news!

    The bad news is it is turning into, predictably,a major SNAFU!

    No one seems to know the law on this . I was talking to my FO about this today,and the email circulating is that there is a CEASE on issuing any further authorisations pending consultations between DOJ and AGS[Read FEC operation no doubt!] and that these are considered restricted and authorised only by a chief superintendent of a district.

    I had to tell him to go and look up the offensive weapons act 1991, which is statute law about these NVs, and that they are authorised by a Superintendent not the Chief.Nor could they be considered "restricted firearms" as that class only came in in 2006/08. He is referring back to Div HQ and they to The Park as what to do as there is legislation already in place.

    Figured this was going to be too good and too easy to be true.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭dalalada


    What’s SNAFU

    Post edited by dalalada on


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