What are the biggest “what ifs” in Irish sports?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033124#Comment_120033124

What if the horse racing industry paid tax.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032971#Comment_120032971

The class players? That's revisionism lads. We had Kevin Kilbane as a regular, a solid pro but not class. Ian Harte was slow as a wet week and had to have Kilbane covering him all times in front. Gary Breen as first choice centre half? Steve Stauntaon was creaking by this stage too. Realistically we were a country mile away from winning a world cup in 02, despite rte making documentaries to the contrary.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033248#Comment_120033248

Quinn was creaking too and Matty Holland was nothing special.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033221#Comment_120033221

Then we wouldn't be the global leader in horse sport that we are.

The Equine sports contribute in the massive amount of activity based taxes that they generate, as well as employment and supply.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033269#Comment_120033269

All business and sport supports employment and indirect tax. Don't all get the nice perks that the well connected posh boy sport gets though.

Cosmo Kramer

What if Michelle Smith had retired straight after Atlanta and never swam competitively again? Would she be a national hero today - quite possibly.

What if there was no GAA and the effort, resources and playing numbers that go into GAA were put into soccer, rugby and Olympic sports instead? Would we be a kind of New Zealand of the northern hemisphere - among the best in the world in a number of different sports?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033289#Comment_120033289

I think if Smith retired immediately after it would have just fueled the doping rumours. The casual fan would probably love her though.

DJIMI TRARORE

What if Karius,sorry it's still too soon

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032487#Comment_120032487

A controversial viewpoint : we might have done worse and not qualified from the group stage. It looks like the whole Saipan thing pulled Mick and the team together and with a point to prove. With an obviously moody and bad tempered (at that moment) Keane in the team kicking off against his team mates, it's anyone's guess what the results might have been.

What if Sonia O'Sullivan didn't trust that fart at the 1996 5000m Olympic final.

cnoc

What if Ciarán Carey had not scored that point against Clare in 1996.......

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033248#Comment_120033248

We had a core group of lads playing high level league football on a weekly basis, I never thought we'd win the cup, but if we'd gotten past Spain, South Korea were there for the taking. Don't think Germany would have slipped up twice against us though.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033277#Comment_120033277

You haven't a clue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033219#Comment_120033219

And if Greg Lemond hadn't gone turkey hunting, Stephen Roche might never have won his Tour de France. Lemond was I think clearly superior.

billyhead

As a Man Utd supporter what if the Munich air disaster never happened. We would probably have won 3 more European cups.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033248#Comment_120033248

I think most were premiership players unlike today. Given, Duff, RKeane, Quinn played well. Holland had an excellent tournament and Kilbane would never let you down. The defenders weren't world class but they didn't concede many goals. Finnan and Cunningham were solid.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033363#Comment_120033363

South Korea were not there for the taking.

It's very clear there was a conspiracy to get them to the semi.

Strumms

What if Eoin Morgan had decided to remain playing for Ireland…. ?

What if Ed Joyce had decided to remain playing for Ireland… ? yes he returned to the fold but only after years in the wilderness just playing club cricket and the odd England game….

both of those players in their absolute prime playing for Ireland and for all the humongous and credible strides the Irish team and Irish cricket have made over the last 15 years, I’m thinking their availability would have shot us further up the competitive ladder of international cricket…

And to a lesser extent… Boyd Rankin.

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033383#Comment_120033383

I agree if GLM had ridden it would have been a different race, but given Roches ‘form’ that year he was well ahead of others.

Panrich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032936#Comment_120032936

I remember Jack O'Connor standing up at the dinner after the 2006 final and saying something similar to this point here. He framed it in the same way as well, saying that Kerrys hunger after a two year drought was more that Mayos after fifty five years.

The truth, if O'Conner was not being disingenuous, was that Kerrys burden of a two year drought was a much lighter load to carry. It was not hunger but weight that counted and has counted several times since. The longer it goes on, the bigger the weight of history.

I have always contended that when Mayo do finally win another AI, it will be as a result of falling across the line, no matter if they had 15 Clifford level players.

WesternZulu

Completely agree about Mayo. My original post was very much tongue in cheek about the curse.

Orourkeda1's assertion that Mayo have lost lost so many finals because the public in the county don't accept their shortcomings couldn't be further from the truth. These are the same 'supporters' who abused Ciaran McDonald for years.

Being from Mayo I think we too often don't believe we're good enough and this feeds into the players. We don't have that enate belief going into finals that we'll win in the way that Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone and even Galway have. Instead Mayo has an inferiority complex that I don't know is the cause or the result of not being able to win an All-Ireland after appearing in 13 finals since 1989.

The serious 'what if' regarding Mayo football isn't the curse but what if that freak bounce over the bar to level the 1996 final for Meath hadn't gone over and brought the game to a replay. If Mayo had won that final I firmly believe they would have won at least 2 more in the time that followed.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033525#Comment_120033525

With a little help from PEDs.

daithi7

What if the Chinese who came from nowhere to beat Sonia O'Sullivan had either not been on performance enhancing drugs (PEDS), or were tested properly?

Ditto Zabo who beat her in an Olympic final. And was subsequently caught at a border with a boot full of banned drugs~ a year later.

Ditto Gary O'Toole's competitors in an Olympic final. He came 4th, the 3 medalists who came in just ahead of him all got caught for using PEDs in the following years.....

IF Stephen Jones landed the last penalty for Wales versus Ireland for the grand slam in 2009!? Ireland wouldn't have finally won this one after winning their only previous one in 1948!!!!

Count Dracula

To Mayo GAA fans, sometimes a hex is just a hex. The hoodoo still remains.

But Aidan O'Shea's return of 2 All Ireland points in 5 hours of All Ireland finals needs some serious scrutiny, how did he manage that? Has to be one of the worst records of one of footballs' greatest players.

A curse is a curse is a curse, to be sure to be sure is a curse to be sure to a curse is a curse is to a curse. To be sure.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033727#Comment_120033727

Mayo have been in 8 of the last 20 All Ireland Finals. 40%

Tyrone, Donegal, Kerry and Dublin have beaten them.

a curse, unfair Dublin boooo, referee, the hoodooo, the voodooo, the booodooo ? and whatever other hokey they can come up with…

just.. not.. good.. enough..

whenever Mayo do win, I believe it’s because of their unfair spirituality advantage….of having both Knock AND Croagh Patrick in their county, that’s as ridiculous as the hokey they pedal.

They have contested 40% of the last 20 finals and they haven’t managed to convert a single opportunity into victory, despite on several occasions having benefited from some outright endemically poor refereeing performances that aided their cause.

players, management have to look at themselves for ‘what if’…maybe ‘what if’ in certain finals they’d have tried to play football instead of going out loosing the head WWE style and with slack refereeing, still lost 😊

razorblunt

That Macedonia result and all other shìte in that group. I think that team playing a tournament that summer may have set them up for 2002 with more experience regardless of Saipan.

roroliam

Tommy Byrne (racing driver), if he wasn't such a piss head would he had got a full time drive with Mclaren after testing their car and setting the fastest time of the day on his first ever time in a F1 car. Did Ron Dennis just see all the problems down the road.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033898#Comment_120033898

That's a great call for a what if actually

What if Packie Bonner wasn't absolute shite?

Ireland, with (excepting Bonner) comfortably their best ever team and squad, were heading to Euro '92 before Packie completely fcuked up a 3-1 lead.

Denmark won the thing with a far worse set of players.

https://youtu.be/-KoJfsE6Qd4?t=1

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033989#Comment_120033989

It’s amazing how no one has ever asked why he is celebrated when the truth is that he was a poor keeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120034000#Comment_120034000

yes there are obviously other obvious egregious examples as well as that one such as putting the ball on a plate for Schillaci from a soft shot in 1990 or letting the ball slip through his hands etc vs the Dutch in 1994 (in fairness Ireland were no match for the Dutch on the day) but somehow a single peno save and he's a ledge

but that 1991 game against Poland was particularly bad considering how relatively good Ireland were then compared to all European team opposition with the Euro's looming.

Strazdas

I totally get the 'what ifs' concerning qualification for 1992 and 2000, but in truth we probably had a big slice of luck in qualifying for WC 94. We could easily have lost that infamous night in Belfast and needed Spain to beat Denmark at the same time - and they played much of that game with ten men after their keeper was sent off.

Speak Now

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033691#Comment_120033691

Are you sure about Gary O'Toole, I don't even recall him making a B final nevermind coming 4th in the Olympics.

What if shefflin missed that penalty in the 2009 all Ireland hurling final. Or if Benny Dunne didn’t get sent off

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120034087#Comment_120034087

Ireland weren't that great by WC 94

The victory against Italy notwithstanding they were never going to do much there and even with Bonner being muck vs the Dutch were not a serious match for them on the day

Building up to the Euro's in 92 tho Ireland were very strong, dismantling England at Wembley yet somehow managing to only draw

purpleshoe

Agree on Tommy Byrne comments, reckon despite his clear ability Dennis just saw a bag of problems on and off the track with him. Based on his book and documentary I can understand why it didn’t go anywhere. As he said himself in the documentary he couldn’t have anyone telling him what to do.

Mclaren didn’t miss the opportunity here, they just found an alternative solution for their goals. The 80s were hugely successful for them.

A real shame, without a doubt he was insanely quick at his peak. Determined as hell!!

The Princess Bride

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033062#Comment_120033062

As a young teen, and a huge fan of our Irish soccer team, I had utter hatred for Raúl Fernandes Nazaré because of those refereeing decisions. The game was far more attractive to watch back then too!

Great idea for a thread OP.

spurshero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033727#Comment_120033727

One of footballs greatest players lol… lay off the Xmas booze . I don’t even think he has 2 points I thought I read somewhere he has never scored in an all Ireland final . He has played in something like 7 of them That alone would tell ya he’s nowhere near the top list of players even in mayo not to mind Ireland … wouldn’t lace a boot of a Keegan or Ciaran mc Donald or even Andy Moran .

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120034148#Comment_120034148

Yes, 1982 should have been our first time at a tournament, not 1988. That Irish side was at least as good as the Northern Ireland team which beat the hosts Spain in the group stages.

billyhead

What if Ryan ODwyer wasn't send off against Cork in the AI semi in 2013. Would Dublin have gone on to win the AI?

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033898#Comment_120033898

Did you ever see the film , Crash and Byrne ?

Pawwed Rig

What if Eamonn Couglan had been at his best in the olympics surrounding his world championship win in Helsinki?

micar

What if the Meath goal vs Louth in the 2010 Leinster Final was disallowed

BK5

What if Barry McGuigan hadn't been miss- managed and didn't fight in the Las Vegas midday sun over 15 rounds against Stevie Cruz. Think they even ran out of water during this fight? And he was leading going into the last round.

McGuigan had a good career but he couldn't have gone down as an all time great if as the champ this fight was organised on his terms.

crossman47

If Cork had beaten Kilkenny for three in a row in 2006, would that Kilkenny team have set all those records? Would Cody have resigned?

In horse racing, if Flyingbolt had not come along at the same time as Arkle, would he now be spoken about in similar terms?

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032487#Comment_120032487

100% this - we will never know what would have happened and how far we would have gone - and given how low the Irish football team has fallen now, wonder or if it will ever happen again.

He seams to like the World cup now, given how much he was on the box in Qatar.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032997#Comment_120032997

or if Clarke (I think) made that tackle in '91 against Australia , ther would be no rugby World cup semi final hoodoo.

chosen1

The biggest what if for me is what it the GAA hadn't taken off in this country? Would most promising young athletes in field sports be playing soccer like they do in most other countries? How many all stars in GAA would be Irish internationals and could we actually compete against the best in football tournaments if it didn't exist?

I respect that we have our own cultural identity in Ireland and do enjoy the odd Gaelic or hurling game, but the average person here has serious unrealistic expectations of our international teams prospects when we have GAA dominating and nabbing the best sports people in large swaths of the country. The same could be said for rugby in a few small pockets.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120034013#Comment_120034013

Ireland had moved up a significant step from 1990 for the euro 92 campaign. We were far superior in that moment than during the 94 World Cup , the Poland game in 91 was a performance that warranted Bonner never playing again

his legendary status reflects both the power of media to create myth and casual fair weather fans to buy into said myth

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120034120#Comment_120034120

That 1-1 draw with England in Wembley in the 92 qualifiers was the best Irish performance I ever saw live , we were really good that time