What are the biggest “what ifs” in Irish sports?

Did you smash it

for example, if Michelle de bruin never returned a manipulated urine sample would her achievements be accepted as genuine (and brilliant)?

if Paul McGrath had the knees of a normal person and no addiction or mental health issues could he have become the best or close to the best defender in the world?

osarusan

What if Roy Keane was at WC 2002.

pgj2015

What if Roy stayed at the 2002 world cup?

Ficheall

Didn't she submit unmanipulated samples for a good while before the manipulated one? People had no interest in accepting it.

If Thierry hadn't handballed, presumably we would have gone on to win the world cup.

Cluedo Monopoly

We should have beaten Spain in normal time in 2002. They were absolutely rattled but we were nearly mentally afraid to win it. Roy would have won that game. Mick timed his spat very badly.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032493#Comment_120032493

Why did she ever need to submit a manipulated sample?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032487#Comment_120032487

He would have got himself sent off in the first 10 minutes of the Cameroon game and we would have lost to them and not qualified from the group.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032503#Comment_120032503

There were traces of androstenedione in the sample according to the evidence given at the 'trial' at CAS.

This was not banned in 1996. It was banned by 1998, when the whiskey sample happened.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058276923/what-are-the-biggest-what-ifs-in-irish-sports

McGrath was ability wise, the best defender in the world, maybe aside from Franco Baresi…great reader of a game the best timer of a tackle, great header of the ball and he had great positional awareness…. Injuries / fitness and addiction though… he had some of the strongest willed and toughest willed disciplinarians in the game both internationally and at and clubs for managers. Alex Ferguson, Graham Taylor, Big Jack….

He won the PFA player of the year in ‘93 in that Villa team that were beaten to the title by United.

something I didn’t realise was that he had an opportunity to go to Napoli from United… wonder had that move happened would the change of culture have enabled him to maybe get on a better path regarding his health and addiction…or maybe being away might have seen him spiral further…

who knows, a ‘what if’ for sure.

Mad_maxx

If we had had a half decent keeper, we’d have qualified for Euro 92 and were good enough to win a competition with poor teams

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032537#Comment_120032537

Twas good stuff.

That was one of my takeaways from the whole thing. I knew drugs would improve performance but the kind of crazy performance improvement that de Bruin showed going from an average olympian maybe even a below average Olympian to a world beater was startling.

WesternZulu

What if Mayo never passed that funeral in Foxford when they last won in 1951 when the 'curse' was put on them?

What level of domination would they have attained in gaelic football?

Instead of a measly 3 All-Ireland's they might have had 33!

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032556#Comment_120032556

And in 1994 I believe Alan Kelly was better than packie.

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032563#Comment_120032563

Could he grit his teeth and hoof the ball though like pakie. Probably, it’s just Pat looked more chiselled doin it where time seemed to.. stand still…..

👏🏻 right, off to bed with me so.

JPup

I don’t think there are any real what ifs with Michelle Smith. The circumstantial evidence was already extremely damning and the failed test put it beyond doubt.

Sonia O’Sullivan unfortunately was on the other side of a similar situation with the Chinese girls robbing her of a world title a few years earlier.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032559#Comment_120032559

Don't think she was very fast though, seemed to be good at a time when the competition was light. She wasn't smashing world records and most of her Irish record's have been broken.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032487#Comment_120032487

See this a lot but no reason why we would have been randomly immune to the blatant corruption that surrounded the South Koreans.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032500#Comment_120032500

Mick didn't time anything badly, Roy turned up Day 1 in foul humour and was looking for reasons to have a go at anyone. Roy was 100 percent in the wrong.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032754#Comment_120032754

Shots fired 😂

orourkeda1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032561#Comment_120032561

What if the Mayo public accepted the shortcomings of their footballers and their inability to see out an all ireland final.

They should have beaten Dublin at least twice in those recent all Ireland finals. Instead of blaming a funeral in the 1950's it would so much more accurate and refreshing hearing them admit that they have been psychologically incapable of getting themselves over the line for 70 years.

They've played in 18 All Ireland finals in total and lost 15 of them.

They've played in 10 All Ireland finals since 1989 (13 games including replays) and they haven't managed to come out on top in a single one of these games.

Let's drop the facade and call this what it really is. WEAKNESS. Plain and simple. They haven't got the bottle and need to change this to win an All Ireland.

sbs2010

What if IFA and FAI never split? Kept their sh!t together like rugby. Would we have been to loads of Euros and WCs ?

orourkeda1

What if Ireland won a match at Italia 90.

I enjoyed it as much as the next man but can you imagine what would have happened if we won a match in that world cup?

orourkeda1

What if Ian Harte had scored that penalty against spain in 2002?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032754#Comment_120032754

A good manager would have dealt with it a lot better. A lot better.

StevenToast

What if Michael Lynagh didnt sneak in for a try in the corner vs Ireland in RWC 1991.....Gordon Hamilton with that famous try winner???

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032949#Comment_120032949

How many different ways can you say

“You’re out of order, and out of here. Off home with you”

Thats what a good manager, which Mick was, would have done.

Say Your Number

If Bonner hadn't made a bollox of Donadoni's shot.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032958#Comment_120032958

Nope. In all aspects of sport and even life, you manage your best players and staff. I am sure if Roy turned up at United training in "foul humour", Fergie would have know what to do or what not to do. Mick should also have gone to that WC to try and win it with the class players he had but the preparations were diabolical e.g. no footballs for example.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032956#Comment_120032956

That still hurts. As does the last second NZ try and repeated conversion - I think it was 2013. Bad tackle decision by that Leinster No. 10 whose name escapes me. Sean OBrien was livid because he had his man.

Madigan it was !

Hesh's Umpire

What if we had VAR back in 1988 for that Wim Kieft goal? Could we have won the feckin thing?

hynesie08

On a slightly more depressing note, what if Darren Sutherland had lived?

He'd beaten DeGeale twice at amateur level and was coming along nicely as a pro, think he could have been a contender.

Say Your Number

2015 Rugby World Cup, if the team weren't so decimated with injuries after the France game.

Count Dracula

For such a small and diverse island we have done remarkably well at both domestic and international sport. I never like bashing Michele, she did what she thought was giving her the best chance of winning a medal, she tested negative at those games, so there you go. She is a 3 time Olympic gold Medal winner and no one can take that away from her.

Soccer wise I think the Roy Keane argument around better progression in Japan is shallow enough. His head wasn't there anyway, he walked off the pitch himself. He was the captain, it was his job to keep them boys going. He wasn't prepared for it and threw a strop, phuckem, he was a great player but Spain might still have gone through. We bottled the penos, you need bottle to win penos. We were good but not that good, imo.

The biggest shambles has been the Rugby at the World cup, downright appalling stuff, they really need to raise their game? The last 3 World Cups they have gone to in the top 4 , 3 and 2 in the world.... and came home beaten by teams who adapted better and relished the challenge of a world competition. They have no fight in their dog at the World Cup, lightweights and pushovers, as a former player and now mild enthusiast I would love to be eating my words soon, but they are already heading off with a crocked, albeit brilliant world class out half, who is only one head butt away from being out of the tournament and no replacement. Another shambles awaits.

Why have we no international Gymnastics Arena? How many 50 metre swimming pools do we have? Why do we have to pay to play Tennis?

The one that winds me up the most is how brilliantly our best golfers perform globally. They received no state funding whatsoever, but the reality is that we love our Golf and there are 100's of brilliant courses available across the country. It really shows what we could achieve if we had a few decent 50 metre pools around Athlone, Longford, Clonmel, Tullamore. They bend over backward to pay people doing phuck all with their lives, the least they could do is build a few Olympic pools and tell them they get paid 25 cents a length? We might have a few more decent swimmers then I reckon?

The biggest what if is the lack of state funding, period. All privately funded sports we kill internationally, think horse racing, golf, the talent is there for sure. But the willpower to promote other sports is not. We still have no ice hockey pitch in the south, no Tennis academy, no Gymnastics, Volley Ball, only a handful of athletics tracks. Look what the investment in Astro Turf hockey pitches returned, we competed in a World Championship Final.

Sport in Ireland needs better financial investment, across the entire playing field, what if?

Did you smash it

Saipan is best viewed as not a story of keane vs McCarthy but an indictment of how the drinking culture and the culture of loveable disorganization in ireland’s international team ultimately led to Ireland playing in a World Cup without its best player.

the rights and wrongs of the argument are far less important than the overall context of Ireland being a kind of banana republic when it comes to setting standards of organization and preparation.

Count Dracula

PS - I really got angry at the " Irish " competitors at the Winter Olympics. I am not angry at the "ex pats" who managed to wangle their way to an Olympics... they took the initiative and got there. I am angry at what a phucking waste of money that is. Paying or financing foreign skiers and snowboarders to represent Ireland at the expense of promoting new domestic talent is a complete disgrace. It is short term, cheap and looked pathetic. No offense to the competitors who took their opportunity, but shame on the Irish Olympic council for blowing their money down the swanny. Not for the first time either, it looks rancid in there.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032956#Comment_120032956

We’d have been beaten by the All Blacks the following week, Ireland were a poor team in 91., very poor

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033014#Comment_120033014

Doubt they get that much to be honest. I’d say any funding irish Olympic competitors get in the winter or summer games is hard earned.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033003#Comment_120033003

i agree with all the stuff about facilities.

one other thing I’d mention is that to play football on an Astro pitch in Ireland you have to pay money.

I live in Poland, so so many schools have great astro pitches and you can walk on them for free and play away once school is out. I presume much of Europe is the same.

in Ireland between funding, insurance and vandalism there’s no chance of that ever happening.

the biggest what if or maybe imponderable is that if Ireland was blessed to have a Messi or Neymar born on its territory how far would they go in life compared to the real messi/Neymar. I’m not sure if they would achieve anything like what the actual versions did. Just think we are so far behind to support elite talent

Hammer Archer

Had Eoin Hand's Ireland team not been on the receiving end of corrupt refereeing decisions in the late 70s/early 80s, there's every chance they would have qualified for a world cup.

They were drawn in the qualifying group of death for the 1982 World Cup, with Belgium, France and the Netherlands. In the third last game of the group, they were away to Belgium. Raúl Nazare from Portugal was referee and by all accounts, it was abundantly clear that he had been paid for by the Belgians. Ireland had a perfectly good goal ruled out for reasons that are still unknown while Belgium scored a late winner from a free that came from a Swan dive just outside the box (referee was probably hoping to give a penalty but the dive was too far outside the box).

After that game, Ireland drew away to the Netherlands and beat the Great France team 3-2 at home but came third behind France on goal difference and only a point behind Belgium. Had they beaten Belgium and all other results were the same, Ireland would have topped that group.

Had they qualified that year, Jack Charlton may never have been Irish manager and with the quality of players at our disposal, who knows how well we would have done.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032944#Comment_120032944

We would have sat back not gotten the second penalty at still ended 1-1.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032971#Comment_120032971

Fergi would have told him to take one and if he continued sold him sooner then he dis. Fergi took no crap. I say this as a liverpool fan

missie1234

What if the referee Jimmy Cooney hadn't blown the whistle two minutes early in the Clare v Offaly replay in 1998?

cj maxx

If nudie hughes goal bound shot had been 2 inches more to the left it would have went in the net instead of bouncing out Monaghan would have won the 1985 All Ireland. That was some team.

Eoinbmw

What if Neil back had been penalized in 02!

gameoverdude

One, I may well remember incorrectly, is itialia 90. Wasn't there an offside given against an injured Irish player in the Italian penalty area (Sheridan perhaps?).

Horse Racing is almost built on what ifs, What if Golden Cygnet had not been fatally injured? Would have been around with the greatest collection of hurdlers to grace the sport.

And what if Martin Donnelly's suspension hadn't broken at Jerez, could we have had a World Champion? Probably not, but a multi GP winner anyway.

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033016#Comment_120033016

Agreed but the semi final hoodoo wouldnt have been hanging over the team ever since.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033003#Comment_120033003

Sport in this country has been chronically underfunded. For decades, still is.

the point you make about hockey is excellent, yet depressing. Imagine with proper investment and resources for sports and sports people… the successes we’d have had throughout the years… ?! Over multiple sports… ‘what if’….is right

it’s a country with motivated people at grassroots level with significant interest and passion for sports…. But a country with small minded politicians that sees our money fecked off away on virtue signaling and random overseas ‘aid’…. Which offers zero encouragement to foreign governments to sort out their own issues..

Luxembourg with a population of around 646,000…. Look at some of their sports facilities….puts us to shame.

The Republic of ‘IF’ we only had…..

dunnerc

What if Dublin didnt get all the money .....

20Wheel

What if ... inconsequential sports results werent read out on the radio as cheap airtime filler.

How many hours of my life have been involuntarily filled with hearing background noise about St Gilberts junior teams triumph in the avonmore league.

Count Dracula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120033154#Comment_120033154

I would be more interested in finding out where it does go tbh. Which sports body are your referring to? It isn't the GAA, I know that for a fact and I doubt it is the IRFU either. The FAI were crippled by a culchie with notions.

Which one ?

griffin100

That jammy Wim Keift goal from Euro 88 is one that still rankles with me.

A more obscure one - Sean Kelly retired from the Vuelta Espania in 1987 when leading the race with a couple of stages to go due to a saddle sore in a very sensitive area when he was nailed on to win. If he had won Irish riders would have won all 3 grand tours that year. He also has 3 second places in Flanders over the years, if he had won it once he would be only one of 4 riders ever to have won all of of cycling’s Monument races. A big deal if you a cycling fan!!