Rent arrears described as Long Covid

tom_murphy112

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026722#Comment_120026722

All I am saying is, you can't retreat the two differently especially in the courts eyes. If home owners are given leeway if they don't pay their mortgage and it is their family home, the same should be done for renters.

With regards to your second point, the landlord will still have the asset which will hold value.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026722#Comment_120026722

This is where legislation needs amending with regards to garnishing salaries and benefits

tom_murphy112

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026718#Comment_120026718

Exactly... These laws were brought in to help home homers during unprecedented times.

The same is happening in the rental sector and it should be harder to kick people out. I know the current eviction ban finishes in March 2023, but come March.. we will still have unprecedented shortage of rental homes, so people will be in the same position as they are now. It will just make things worst as more people will be looking for homes.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026760#Comment_120026760

You mean thieves. Both renters and home owners. Pay your debts or at the least talk and make arrangements.

Disgusting moochers.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026747#Comment_120026747

You are assuming the LL will continue to be able to pay their mortgage if the tenant stays in situ for two years not paying rent and there is no mechanism that ensures the property holds its value or that the mortgage plus interest will not exceed the value of the property.

Also, both can be treated differently in the Courts as they are covered by different legislation, renters do not own their home.

HeidiHeidi

He's a WUM.

Don't take the bait.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026760#Comment_120026760

For those out there upset for the poor landlord in the instant case, they can set up a gofundme for the poor divils.

I googled them just there and someone seems to have bought their financials over on another discussion site. Appears to be saying their annual rental income is about 1.2m and they are set up in some tax-free jurisdictions.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/zrfcw3/comment/j16dmux/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

The only property owners that were treated to the natural consequences of their inability to pay were those whose loans were handed over to vulture funds. And we hear enough about them moaning and whinging in the media

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026794#Comment_120026794

What relevance is this on a non paying tenant?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026819#Comment_120026819

What relevance does the non-paying tenant have to you personally? Why do you care if it does not matter?

Are you the landlord? Or a shareholder perhaps? Does it affect your life in any way, shape, or form?

To answer your question, the relevance is that it is a professional landlord. Who really should have managed it better. There are no excuses for their failure and no sympathy from me for it.

tom_murphy112

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026780#Comment_120026780

Home owners don't own their home/deed till the mortgage is paid off too. I am sure you are aware of this.

Government policy has certainly distorted the whole market, so I don't see why this should be treated any differently.

• Since banks can't reposes houses, a good few banks have decided to leave the Irish market, this has also cost current mortgage holders like myself to pay more for interest compared to other EU nations. If the banks could also repossess the house, it could be sold on to someone else that will pay the mortgage.
• Government brought in HAP as a temporary measure till they build enough social houses. This never happened and all they kept doing is expanding the scope of HAP. HAP in turn competes with average Joe that is working, but isn't eligible for government support. Now that you have people that were supposed to be on social housing now competing with government funds in the private rental market, it certainly has caused rent prices to go crazy. Report from last year stated that 54% of all renters were getting some sort of supports from the government.

You have no one else to blame that poor government policy. What is happening is all consequence of poor policy and the government has cornered themselves. This is just going to get worst!

I personally think you are right, but you can't have two class of people being treated differently.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026853#Comment_120026853

Ok, what you posted is bullshit from the very first sentence.

I’ve lifted this quote because it completely refutes what you posted in a concise way that I couldn’t.

The bank or mortgage company owns an interest in the property and the mortgage note itself — but the lender does not own your house. Your home is considered collateral for the mortgage loan. As long as you pay your home loan in accordance with the terms, you are the legal owner of the property.

You are the registered owner of your property, not the bank.

tom_murphy112

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026794#Comment_120026794

lets not forget that most of these REIT pay no tax in Ireland, cause of legislation the government made to accommodate them. Many another thing we should change, so they pay their fare share.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2021/0513/1221319-ireland-housing-property-reits-tax-investment-funds/

tom_murphy112

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026880#Comment_120026880

Calm down Greedy Dave... sure you are the registered owner alright, but you don't have the deed till you have it paid off. So you can't sell it without the bank releasing the deed etc.. so you technically don't fully own it.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026907#Comment_120026907

Technically, you own your house, it is collateral on a loan, the bank is not the house owner.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026836#Comment_120026836

The relevance to me is that I see friends and family not able to rent because more and more properties are lost to the market. I know friends asked to leave properties for them to remain vacant. Why? The demand is there so what's the problem.

The problem is the system is fcuked. The failure lies with the government and the more pr+cking around they do the worse they make it.

Enlighten us. How could it have been managed better when the system is set up in a tenants favour no matter what? Should the property owner have asked the tenant if they can get their mummy to sign a guarantee?

tom_murphy112

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026915#Comment_120026915

Technically true greedy Dave. But the deed is vital part of saying that you own the house, as you can't sell it etc without the deed.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026935#Comment_120026935

So you now understand that the bank does not own the house, neither technically, nor hypothetically? Good, that helps.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026853#Comment_120026853

This is technically incorrect, I'm on the deeds of my mortgaged house, listed under ownership as 'full owner'. The mortgage company are then noted in particulars as a burden on the property with a 'charge for present and future advances repayable with interest'. Legally I'm full owner though and as you point out that means a lot in this country.

The difference in non payments is that the motgage companies/banks have diversified mortgage books and can stay in business when one mortgage isn't paid, small landlords can't handle massive arrears.

If you want them in the market you need faster evictions, if you don't that's fine too, let them sell up without banning sales.

tom_murphy112

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026940#Comment_120026940

Nah I would still say the bank owns the property till I pay if off as it is collateral and can be taken away if I don't pay it. But yes me and missus are listed owners of the property and I have a copy of the deed, but don't have the original one.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026951#Comment_120026951

A chink of light penetrates the fog. But of course what you posted earlier is wrong, the bank holds an interest in your property, but does not own the property itself.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026951#Comment_120026951

What if you have 99% equity with 1% left on the mortgage, does the bank still 'own the house'?

It's a rhetorical question no need to reply!

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026929#Comment_120026929

Very good comment, that should be made more often.

More and more nice tenants will suffer too as there will be nowhere to rent.

These scum tenants jinxed it for everyone as landlords lose their reasons to rent.

DubCount

I really find this type of thread so depressing.

1) Landlording is like any other business, there is a risk of bad debts. But no other business is a supplier required to continue providing a service 3 years after the customer has stopped paying.

2) Ah thats because there is a social good in continuing to let the tenant stay. So its a social service, not a regular business. Does that mean the state should make up the loss to a landlord where a tenant doesnt pay.

3) Oh no, its like any other business, the landlord takes the risk of being in business. Back to point 1 again.

Then there is the

a) If the landlord doesnt like it, they can leave. So they can evict the tenant if they dont want to continue being a landlord.

b) Oh No, they have to sell with the tenant in situ, because thats in there is a social good in continuing to let the tenant stay. So the tenant will lose thousands of Euro as they can only sell to another landlord who is buying without a mortgage. Will the state make up the loss for the landlord. Oh no, go back to point a)

We just go around in circles, and none of it makes any sense for a landlord. Then when landlords do leave, everyone is complaining there is nowhere to rent and rental rates are increasing while standards drop. So we introduce "emergency" measures because we are in crisis, and do nothing to fix the system. When things get worse, the answer is more "emergency" measures and still nobody fixes the problem.

For all the experts on here, where else in the world allows a tenants to stay without paying for 3 years? The system has to make sense for both landlords and tenants - otherwise we have insufficient supply and the tenant abuse and high rents that go with that.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026976#Comment_120026976

And the longer it goes on the worse it gets. Even in this case the Rtb determined that the tenant would leave in 2021 and they are STILL there.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026941#Comment_120026941

small landlords can't handle massive arrears

Which is why they should not be pandered to. Let the people and organisations who can handle them do it.

How anyone could think that it would be better to have 10 have-a-go clueless eejits trying to manage 1 property each instead of having one person managing all 10 of them is beyond me.

You also appear to be under the misguided impression that sales are banned. I think you have been reading too much guff on boards.ie!!!!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026990#Comment_120026990

But no other business is a supplier required to continue providing a service 3 years after the customer has stopped paying.

The landlord is no longer providing a service. At that stage they are trying to recover possession of their property. Possession they willingly handed over.

This is a scenario that can happen in many businesses. And it often does. Any business which supplies anything on credit cannot just unilaterally rock up a few months later and rip that thing back if they are not paid. The business would have to chase it's money back through other avenues. Same as the landlord.

I would liken it more to a subcontractor who did work on a house and supplied material and fittings but did not get paid. The homeowner can keep using those fittings and enjoying their work even though the subcontractor did not get paid by the builder (this happened to many people, especially after the last crash). They have given something, not been paid for it, someone else is continuing to enjoy it.

If you don't want that to happen then don't be in that business. It's as simple as that.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026794#Comment_120026794

1.2m? What? Good for them.

herbalplants

Or the landlord should have entered his property after max 3 months of non payment and put all of tenants belongings in black sacks and out.

Then should have changed the locks and stop letting them in.

The scum tenants would have then logged a case with useless Rtb against landlord. But surely, the landlord would have had less loss from his story.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026929#Comment_120026929

exactly

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120027117#Comment_120027117

Lol. Don't give up the day job. Anyone who followed your (illegal) advice would find themselves in a far worse position financially. The tenant would likely be reinstated by order, except with a hefty chunk of change in their pocket courtesy of the landlord