Who has Priority here? Almost Fatal Accident

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984163#Comment_119984163

I hate to tell you but you'd fail your driving test if you think you have right of way across an edge of carriageway broken yellow line and that you gained right of way with less than 3 seconds of passing someone. An indicator does not grant you right of way. Has the test changed in some way since I done it.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984163#Comment_119984163

Also again with the provocation, I'm not letting the cyclist off, they are both at fault. Stop misrepresenting what I have said multiple times

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984149#Comment_119984149

The keep right sign applies to the lane to the right of the sign. The broken yellow line means the edge of the carriageway. I think it's more than just the cyclist who doesn't know what these signs mean or represent.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984169#Comment_119984169

Its nice to be nice, as long as there is no risk of you delaying other traffic behind you or being rear ended yourself by stopping unexpectedly.

Kaisr Sose

Simple matter here.

Motorist is in the wrong.

They should have seen the cyclist and assumed they were going straight ahead, then wait to confirm that. It has been said before, indicating does not give or infer right of way.

What was 2 seconds for the motorist to wait before turning left. Its likely they never even seen the cyclist.

Dreadful driving. It's actually quite shocking the number of posters that think the driver did nothing wrong. One can only assume some of them would do the same thing. Cyclists have no right of way in their version of the rules of the road.

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984209#Comment_119984209

No stop necessary just drive a bit better. Slow in time and give some space.

Brendan Bendar

Hmm.. thread drifting off topic, we have folk now masquerading as mind readers who purport to know what the motorist and the cyclist were thinking

Most sensible people would see that as , well, let’s be diplomatic, off the wall a bit.

Always puzzles me that people will try to defend the indefensible instead of holding their hands up, admitting their error and moving on.

I suppose that’s why threads like this stagger on for twenty or thirty pages.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984244#Comment_119984244

Which could equally be applied to the cyclist here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984244#Comment_119984244

Yes, it’s a matter of keeping an eye for cyclists to the left as you approach a left turn and simply pacing your speed to avoid conflict and to allow the cyclist to safely carry forward.

What does sometimes disturb me, though, when I’m stopped at lights, especially when a number of cyclists build up to the left of you, one often cuts right across the front of you very closely (to position for right turn), maybe just as the light is turning green again. I’ve had to stamp on the brake a few times on these occasions just after beginning to move forward.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984036#Comment_119984036

If you had already watched the video, you’d know it was taken by the cyclist, using a helmet camera- so why would you question why the cyclist doesn’t appear in the video or the screenshot from the video?

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984301#Comment_119984301

Yep.

Per above I would put the cyclist in the wrong.

But if I were driving the car I'd let him across first and slow accordingly. To be nice

Gabezmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984071#Comment_119984071

It's not a matter of truth (subjective or objective) - it's a matter of human behaviour. Motorists have a set of fossilised mindsets and behaviours that become activated once they get behind the wheel of a car and start driving (I am a driver myself - plus, I am a cyclist and PEV user so I get both perspectives).

I'll gladly explain to you what those car/van/truck/bus-driver behaviours are, even from a Freudian, Lacanian, Jungian perspective if you like ("the car being an extension of..." etc. etc.)

Mrs Dempsey

Getting messy here - more heat than light being generated. Some of it a bit scary - e.g. "I have the right of way so I'm in the right" brigade. Was in Lidl earlier - with 3 items - kind lady with full trolley allows me to check out ahead of her - was she wrong? Should she have driven the trolley over me? Binary opinion devoid of shades of grey please & thanks in keeping with pantomime season - oh no she didn't - oh yes she did. Happy Christmas folks stay safe out there & watch out for others.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984412#Comment_119984412

And that post makes no sense whatsoever, has nothing to do with what happens on the road.

Making the discussion even more messy.

still hasn’t changed anything, cyclist should not have gone off the cycle track and straight onto the road.

Seems obvious to me, but not, it seems, to those mind readers on here.

How difficult is it to stop and check.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984391#Comment_119984391

NOw there’s a generalisation for you…

magicbastarder

you seem to be struggling with the concept that it's possible that both the cyclist and the driver made mistakes. saying the cyclist made a mistake does not mean the driver was in the right, and vice versa.

and as i've pointed out a few times, it was the cyclist who stopped in time to avoid a collision, but the motorist did not.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984577#Comment_119984577

Is it obvious to you that the driver shouldn’t have cut across the path of the cyclist that they overtook one second earlier?

KrisW1001

I don't think we're going to get much more than driver or cyclist bashing at this stage.

Perhaps we could let this be, now? The o.p. asked a question of fact, it was answered to their satisfaction. Everything we've learned since shouldn't be news: that the world is not perfect, we should be more careful and more courteous, but people can still make mistakes.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984630#Comment_119984630

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984592#Comment_119984592

Yes good call there , the cyclist did not obey the ‘move right’ sign on the cycle path it would appear,and mistakenly thought the ‘roadway ‘ was part of the cycle way and just carried on.

Motorist probably expected the cyclist to stop just as one might do when attempting to cross a busy road.

Now nobody got hurt and hopefully the cyclist learned a few lessons and will survive many more years of happy and safe cycling.

chooseusername

Can I overtake a vehicle on the inside?

"A cyclist can overtake a vehicle on the left (or inside of the flow of traffic) if the vehicles to the right are stationary or moving more slowly than the cyclist.

However as a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:

Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it"

At 20 seconds in in the video, the car had fully overtaken the cyclist just before the cyclist reached the blue sign, giving the cyclist enough time to stop.

The car driver expected the cyclist to stop and wait at the junction until their path was clear, which they eventually did, comfortably it appears. The cyclist believed they had beaten the car to junction, and so had the road. But the red car won the race and the cyclist left it till the last minute to pull up and so got their "almost fatal accident" footage.

Regardless of who had the right of way here, the most responsibility lay with the car driver, as the party that could inflict the most damage.

Neither covered themselves in glory here.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984174#Comment_119984174

The motorist could have stopped, the cyclist should have stopped. Hopefully that clears up any remaining questions.

The broken yellow line doesn't come into it, the ending of the bike lane does. If the bike line had continued across the junction then the motorist would be 100% at fault, but it didnt.

So, to answer the OP, the motorist had priority.

magicbastarder

That 'overtaking slow moving traffic on the left' legislation does not apply in this case. It's for when a cyclist approaches a slower car from behind, where the driver is already indicating left. The car in this instance was behind the cyclist till the last second or two. It's not the context that law is for.

If you *did* try to apply it in the case of a motorist overtaking a cyclist and then braking to turn left, you'd be arguing for the legalisation of left hooks.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984592#Comment_119984592

Yes, thankfully the person who was in the wrong stopped before it might have killed them.

Sleepy Joseph

lad on bike 100% at fault.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984614#Comment_119984614

You cant cut across something that isn't there. The "path" wasn't there, it stopped due to a road.

Had the cyclist been on the road the entire time then the motorist would 100% be at fault (hence why many would invite the cyclist the be on the road when such crappy cycle lanes are involved)

However, this is not the case in this (near) incident.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984689#Comment_119984689

Don’t remember reading the section of Rules of the Road about the winner of the race having right of way.

Maybe we shouldn’t be thinking about normal road usage in terms of race winning?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984735#Comment_119984735

The cyclist was there, though there’s a good chance that the driver never actually saw the cyclist, given the obscured side windows. His path was his route, the direction he was going.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984735#Comment_119984735

Correct and right, and that’s ignoring the turn right sign on the cycle path by the cyclist it would appear.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984781#Comment_119984781

His path, both literally and figuratively ended at the roadway though.

In this specific scenario, the cyclist was the equivalent of a pedestrian waiting to cross the road. It would be no different if the cyclist was attempting to cross the actual roadway that they were previously cycling parallel to.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984773#Comment_119984773

Had the cyclist reached the the junction a minute before the the car, there would be no discussion, and Vice Versa.

So it is about who reached the junction first, the car obviously did, and had overtaken the cyclist despite the cyclist's best efforts.