Cost of shed

DJ98

Looking to construct a simple lean to shed here just for storage purposes (meal and tools and a couple of small trailers) , 2 spans so 30 ft long and 16 ft wide. Had a local guy look at it this week who's only new into this game but what he suggested to keep costs down was to bolt pillars onto top of shuttered walls so saving on over half the amount of steel as opposed to full length rsjs and to also make the rafters out of crash barriers welded together. Any pros/cons to his suggestions? He is to come back with a price in the next week but anyone got a rough idea as to what a shed like this would cost?

Donald Trump

I'd be a bit wary of doing that.

DJ98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119969528#Comment_119969528

Any reasons why?

J.O. Farmer

I wouldn't like the sound of crash barriers welded together for the roof. The risk of welds falling and the roof collapsing would be a concern.

Are any of the shuttered walls already there. You're only going to save on 6 rsjs max. I don't know how much 1 is but your talking savings of maybe a couple of hundred in the shed.

I'd price getting the job done without cost saving measures too. That way you'll see exactly how much your saving. It may not be that much.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119969862#Comment_119969862

For basically the same reasons J.O gave above

Crash barriers are also designed for one thing. I don't know whether they'd be sound to use in the roof. An engineer might be able to give a better opinion

Plus the fact that your man is only starting out.

blue5000

Timber prices have dropped a bit as Sweeden can’t sell to Russia. 6x3 should be a bit cheaper soon. What would you be saving by bolting pillars to walls? One tip of a loader bucket and shed could be down around you.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970005#Comment_119970005

Agree completely... stand them in the ground instead of introducing a structural weakness/point of failure

Yer man sounds like a mullocker....

SuperTortoise

I doubt you'd save anything bolting columns to walls, where the column would be would still have to be filed with concrete and rebar.

As for the crash barriers, unless your man is fierce tidy it'll look gunthered together and with the price of steel I wouldn't think there is a huge saving either.

Tonynewholland

16' isn't much of a span and I wouldn't be worried about the strength but unless you have them for free is it worth the hassle. How high on top of the walls will the pillars be. Might be easier to go higher with the wall if it's the low side and use no pillars

Pinsnbushings

Get the job done right, you'll be looking at it the rest of your life, look at the sheds blown down in recent years with wind, not worth the tiny savings you'd make with them measures.

A timber purlin is about 38 euro if I remember rightly, steel purlin cheaper again I think, the last time I looked at crash barriers they weren't a whole lot cheaper, who's paying for the time welding them then?

Anto_Meath

Put in the floor slab, bolt the uprights to it, then use RSJs as the rafters, short cuts in the structure of the building will only end in disaster, wind loads, snow loads or a tip from a machine could level it.

If you want to save money look at the sheeting. Maybe don't but any concrete walls around the shed, maybe use blocks and building them yourself or look to see if you could get second hand cladding or "seconds" insulated cladding. If you wish to go with concrete walls maybe look at "second wall panels" from a concrete supplier

Limestone Cowboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970281#Comment_119970281

I'd be more inclined to put in a footing for your wall and bolt the uprights to that. Let your floor run in over the footing then after. I've seen a few places where there was water making its way through the joint between the floor and wall when it's not stepped.

funkey_monkey

What width is your shuttered wall and what width of a pad is he proposing to put onto it for the stanchions? How tall will the stanchions be? Stanchions are bolted to the ground all the time with no ill effect, so it might be possible to bolt on top of the shuttered wall. The problem you might have is that there is insufficient concrete breadth around the pad for a stable base. So in my opinion, it really depends as to whether it is feasible or not to bolt to top of the shuttered wall, although the likelihood of the shuttering being sufficiently thick to accommodate the stanchion is low.

Are you starting from ground level or is this backing onto your silo? If you are starting from ground level full height stanchions and concrete wall panels are probably the cheapest solution. If there is to be no sidewards pressure on the walls then you can buy cheap panels (cheaper than the agri ones). I've seen them advertised in the back of the farming papers - sufficient for a wall alternative, but not for load bearing. Another thing you could do is sheet it to the ground.

Not sure what you'd save by using the crash barriers.

ScottL

If you want you can have a look at a similar sized timber frame option I posted over on

Lean-To Shed (Traditional Framing - Douglas Fir) | The Farming Forum

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970659#Comment_119970659

I often wondered about she kit sheds that are bolted to a slab.

Surely if building from scratch, you'd always prefer to go with the girder into the ground (in concrete of course)? No? Or would lads ever put up a slab with the intention of bolting the shed onto it? I mean for a permanent job that you know you're not going to be dismantling.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971543#Comment_119971543

That’s a fabulous shed. Well done!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971543#Comment_119971543

Reminds me of a 100-year old "barn" I saw in California a few years back. Although it was at least 60'x60' and probably over 20' high. In redwood country in the mountains. All massive beams and planks. Fully enclosed.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971556#Comment_119971556

If done right they should be fine. 2-post car lifts are just bolted into the concrete and they would have a bit of tension on them. You wouldn't just bolt it to a 4" slab - it would need to be sufficiently deep to withstand the expected forces.

It can be done in a similar manner to this video @10:30 - although I'd probably have galvanised it and if the cones were turned upside down it would further prevent pullout. It takes a lot of force to strip a nut from thread so would be sufficiently strong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XHcUBV9pkI

I think @GERRY6420 used base plates for his slatted shed, but I think the floor level was above - couldn't see from video if they were bolted to the base plates.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971543#Comment_119971543

Seen that previously over the TFF. Credit to you - it's a very well built shed.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971731#Comment_119971731

Would a car life not just have fairly static and predictable loads against it though. At some stage someone is probably bump up against a girder or push dung against it when cleaning out a shed etc. Or even a big gust of wind catching the roof

Tonynewholland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971774#Comment_119971774

There'd be a lot of movement on a car lift with all the pushing and pulling going on at times and a heavy jeep above your head. I'd say the weak point of bolting into concrete would be the weld on the base plate and not the bolts if done right

tabby aspreme

Most industrial buildings are bolted to the ground, foundation pads are put in place with Rag Bolts in place to hold the base plates, good 9x3 timbers would span 16ft for trusses

Mr..

Im considering putting a lean to off a shed and met the man that did the concrete of last shed, he reckons u could bolt the gurders to top of wall but it would want to be a 10 inch thick wall

funkey_monkey

I'd probably have galvanised it and if the cones were turned upside down it would further prevent pullout. 

Looks like I've misunderstood how this works. The cone is a removeable liner and allows for lateral movement when lining up the stanchion or whatever. Once removed the void can then be filled up.

SuperTortoise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972478#Comment_119972478

I have hundreds of sheds done where they are bolted to the slab and i've yet to see any of them fall!

As long as they are done right of course, standard procedure is to shim up the highest column half inch and shim everything else up level, you're then left with a void under the baseplates where you should shutter and grout them.

Them cones are left in the hold down assembly so you can shift the bolts in the holes to allow the baseplate to fit over them, same procedure with shimming them up and grouting underneath them.

farawaygrass

When putting up the uprights, is it better to bolt them to a concrete base or dig a hole and set them in concrete?

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972687#Comment_119972687

It's handier bolting them and you use a bit less steel

I don't know if it's true but I always do cattle sheds by standing them.in a hole and concreting in.....it feels stronger to me.

I put up a workshop and a smaller storage shed by putting in pads and bolting then pouring floor and iys a sturdy job too in fairness....just don't like yhe idea of driving in with a loader to pick up dung and shoving at ground level where girders attached.....not that they have to be exposed or should be .....

Would be interested to see what others think.....the point at which the bolts fail is well beyond the kind of pressure/force/stress/strain/torsion etc you would put on by taking a run at them with a loader in fairness...then it's how strong is the concrete, how strong is the steel

I suppose I should be more worried about poor quality steel corroding in the **** and piss.....we have an older shed put up with sections of old rail....fabulous stuff...its well over a hundred years old and barely a dusting of corrosion in the worst of conditions

A more recent one with rsjs and paint and a slightly worrying deepish layer of corrosion on the surface...made of shite in comparison to the old rails

You can still see old gates made in that wrought iron style on old farms with almost no corrosion too.....a rusty colour but not depth to the rust....they really don't make them like that anymore (commonly anyway)

mayota

https://www.donedeal.ie/farmsheds-for-sale/rsj-kit-20x32/32509262

This.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972586#Comment_119972586

What depth slab do you bolt onto, or do you deepen it where the stanchions are to be located.

kevthegaff

I'm doing a lean too, gona go up and over old roof and wer doing a wall at other side with steel reinforcing. Gona bolt rsj to top of this wall.

Dunedin

Bolt to slab is perfect job for a lean too/ machinery shed type.

for cattle shed my preference would be pad for each pillar.

Some lads set a short bit of girder in the pad well below top of foundation, bolt upright to that girder and then concrete all in to top of foundation.

everyone will have their own way and I’ve yet to see any shed fall.