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FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Winter 2022/2023 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST**

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭Hooter23


    There is some very warm air to the south of us and in spain around the new year colliding with very cold air coming from the north west...this combined with a possible very strong jet stream caused by the US freeze could be a recipe for disaster...any potential storms are not showing up yet though

    A dangerous time of the year to get storms with the night of the big wind happening on the 6th january 1839

    Post edited by Hooter23 on


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GFS 12z and the PV. Over the next 7 to 10 days the PV is set to strengthen, perhaps a response to the extreme level of zonality the entire way across the northern hemisphere at mid latitudes. The low to mid levels of warming around the PV over recent weeks is set to die off too. This will keep any real cold bottled up in the artic circle keeping everywhere across North America, Europe and Asia relatively mild.

    However there are signs in the GFS 12z that as we enter the second week of January possible changes to the PV with moderate warming coming back and may lead to the PV coming under strain again. This will have to be watched as it could be the beginning of a possible SSW later in January and along with it more of a chance for cold air to begin moving south once again.

    PV by January 8th.

    Untitled Image

    The above is not an SSW but a rather strong warming which isn't quite enough to promote proper northern blocking, but the fact that the warming could start again and intensify is a good sign. Certainly something to keep an eye on over the next couple of weeks.

    Another change in the 12z over the GFS runs of the past several days is thankfully less in the way of rainfall. It still looks unsettled but rainfall totals nowhere near recent runs, particularly in the eastern half of the country.

    Untitled Image




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Just an update on the GFS pub run and the PV. Just like the 12z we see a big warming towards the end of the run except this time we reach SSW levels and can't go any further.

    Untitled Image

    If only we could push ahead by another 24 to 48 hours.

    This will probably be gone by the morning but could easily come back in a later run. Could this be the start to the killing blow of the PV and much more exciting model watching going forward!?

    The pub run also brings us high pressure with very warm uppers, a bit of an outlier, but because this is winter this high pressure generates some very chilly nights with frost. We also see a big reduction in rainfall totals yet again.

    Untitled Image




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,605 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


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    Let the next phantom chase begin courtesy of the GFS. I was not expecting these kind of charts to appear this soon. Hopefully the other models will start to show something similar in the next few days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    Second week of Jan for the next cold spell has been my punt I'm hopeful by the early Jan we will see more interesting charts ........or else I'm talking complete s#ite 😆



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 TeaCup2


    Bill I come for the s*$/# talk, we're on fantasy island after all 😂😂😂



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I reckon it's a bit early to start seeing blocking and easterlies in the models but GFS had a go of it on the 00z, however if it was to verify there is no cold there as all of Europe would be relatively warm by that point and no cold to tap into. We're going to have to cool down northern and eastern Europe again before we can even think of having a successful cold spell. Despite not much proper cold on that 00z run it was still one of the coldest runs right at the end with the vast majority going for a continuation of the mild Atlantic driven pattern.

    and the SSW on the 00z was even stronger than the pub run.

    Untitled Image

    GFS 6z still rolling out, let's see does it continue with the SSW.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 836 ✭✭✭bazlers


    Good work Gonzo,

    You could nearly write it that we will get a raging eastely when europe is so mild..be our luck.

    Also, do we not have a Polar Vortex Thread?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    At the moment I don't see a thread for it, however I am using a mobile at the moment and navigating boards using it is an absolutely horror show in usability. I'm generally talking about the PV here since it's still relevant to the FI thread and may be the beginning to what eventually leads to another cold outbreak further down the line. IF I could make a wish I would ressurrect the version of boards we were happily using up to 2020, it was so much easier to find any thread and plenty of other things which now seem missing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,605 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    It would not take long for the continent to cool down if we got a Scandi high orientated in the right way to push frigid air from the North East or East our way. The main problem , if we are looking to the north east for heights, will be getting a Scandi high in the right position,often times the high sinks or does not go far enough North for us.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    New Year’s Eve severe storm if it plays out like that. 7 days out. Potential for our first named storm of the season next week. Gusts of 160km/h just off the SW coast at 6pm,150km/h towards Galway coast. 173km/h over the Kerry mountain tops. Next frame is 6 hours later and it’s 144km/h off the Donegal coast.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Very stormy indeed for new years eve

    Screenshot_20221224_220602_net.fusio.meteireann.jpg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Snow event across the south next Saturday morning on tonight’s run.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    image.png

    Showing the same on todays 12Z coming out. The 850s don't really support it though...

    image.png

    Similarly like last night's 850s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Also going for narrowish band of snow sooner than that at T84-90 for parts of Connacht and Ulster.

    image.png


    image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    ECM has backed away from anything stormy. Yellow level warning is about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭Donegal Ken


    Both the Ecmwf and GFS now are showing the possibility of low pressure system moving up through the country this weekend Saturday into Sunday morning with rain bumping into colder air and turning to snow for places. Still uncertainty on the track but northwestern and north counties could see some good accumulations if this came of. GFS has been showing this over the past number of days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭Donegal Ken


    Ecmwf 12Z showing fairly widespread snowfall on Sunday and much colder conditions to start the new year. GFS 12Z has that low pressure a little further westwards keeping us on the milder side. Encouraging signs from the ECMWF model if your looking for a bit of sneachta.

    overview_20221227_12_111.jpg overview_20221227_12_120.jpg overview_20221227_12_123.jpg 2mtemp_20221227_12_138.jpg 850temp_20221227_12_123.jpg

    Friday night and Saturday morning there is another interesting feature running into the west and northwest that needs to be watched could result in some accumulations of snow across western and northwestern counties.

    overview_20221227_12_087.jpg 850temp_20221227_12_093.jpg

    Still some uncertainty on the exact track which will be crucial especially for Sunday but interesting watch ahead to see what happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    Very interesting. These charts should probably be in the <120hrs thread now though?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭Hooter23


    The strong jet stream is bringing warm air up to arctic regions at the start of the new year...this then disrupts the polar air and by the second week of january it starts creating storms...some of the storms have very cold air coming from the north west... if we do get any storms from this it should start around the second week of january..

    Post edited by Hooter23 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,605 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Heights dropping over Europe on the latest GFS in FI with a pm airflow digging in. The Azore high being displaced west too. Are we being led up the garden path or is there something afoot?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GFS 12z, first time checking the models in quite a while and we are no closer to cold and snow than we were over a week ago. An incredibly zonal pattern stretches right out till at least January 8th with mostly mild conditions but some cooler sectors alternating but essentially everything is basically mild and no sign of any cold on the models for us.

    We may have to wait till second week of January before we start hopefully seeing some more interesting charts for cold and snow. There are some cold outliers starting to appear towards the middle of the month, we would want to see alot more of these turning from mild to cold over the next 10 days to have any sort of confidence in predicting a spell of properly cold weather.

    Untitled Image

    No let up in the rain either with plenty of rainfall over the next 2 weeks, particularly in western areas.

    Untitled Image

    The GFS has been playing around with the idea of a SSW around mid January, some runs go full on SSW while others have minor to significant warmings which fall short of an SSW, but it does look like the PV will come under pressure in the second half of January. GFS 12z doesn't go for a SSW but it does turn the PV less cold than it is now. Currently the core of the PV is around -85C and we see these values dropping back to -76 in about 2 weeks time. It remains to be seen if we will get an SSW but quite a few of the GFS runs are going for one.

    Untitled Image




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,605 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    An interesting ECM run this evening. It could be quite windy in FI! Also there are heights trying to build into Greenland at the very end. It will probably come to nothing, but across the models there are tentative signs of changes with euro heights disappearing and a Svalbard high developing. The Atlantic may be too powerful for any cold spell to develop, but at least there are some interesting charts beginning to appear after the first week of January



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    74419B7A-C1C3-47BA-A195-D20BF2EF9074.png.31f982f7d49feacdcf97e8f67d063f07.png ABF95D13-4AEA-4E11-B72F-65E00EC8EA28.png.5bcd2ed353164120da3eff3312d02b3b.png

    6z GFS ,while not too be taken too seriously, I do think the second week of Jan is one to watch...



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    The snow in the GFS is from an Atlantic low pushing through the country with a chilly north-westerly flow. The GFS usually overplays snow potential from colder westerlies with cold rain the most likely result. IF it did verify chances are it would be a temporary dusting away from high ground. I'm still playing the waiting game for hopefully a major flip back to cold in the second half of January or early February.

    GFS 6z also has a very nice SSW developing.

    Untitled Image

    IF we do get a proper SSW around the 2nd or 3th week of January, if it's successful in affecting our weather we wouldn't really feel the effects of that till maybe early February. For an SSW to have an affect on our weather in January we would have had to have a major SSW already during the Christmas.

    Just looking at the other models and they all seem to be pushing towards a north-west to south-east zonal flow for the second week of January which would bring a risk of wintry precipitation mostly to high ground in the north and west.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    The ssw in 2018 was around mid feb and the response was 2 weeks after. So if one occurs mid Jan, hopefully a response by early Feb. If it happens at all of course. The 2 ssw,s since 2018 didn't deliver anything for us which should be kept in mind though. Though I don't know if they were proper ones???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,605 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    On some models the Azores high is being displaced westwards and heights are dropping in Europe that could allow for a potent pm airflow or a possible northerly eventually. If this scenario did play out we could eventually see a Mid Atlantic high or a high further north develop if the bulk of the pv heads east towards Siberia as per some model output.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,940 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Define "proper", they were both major SSW events. The zonal winds at 60N 10hPa reversed to easterly in both. They were both PV displacements whilst the 2018 event was a PV split as per the table below I have shared before.

    Screenshot 2022-12-31 at 12.21.20.png


    Photography site - https://sryanbruenphoto.com/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    Wasn't there not enough downwelling in 2019? Or something like that



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,605 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Sometimes we get a displacement instead of a split from these warmings, displacements rarely lead to cold for us as bits of the Vortex tend to land in the wrong place. In recent times it lead to low after low coming at us from the northwest with cold air to the north east tantalising out of reach.



This discussion has been closed.
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