World Cup 2022 - Team and Match Discussion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981906#Comment_119981906

It's always a dumb argument imo.

People support English clubs not the players that play in them. It's certainly no reason to support the England team. There's good reason the English teams are hated by almost every nation.

The English team are certs every tournament for a knockout loss. It's tradition at this stage and long may it continue.

Benimar

Sky Sports News going in hard on the ref. Usual thing, wondering why a referee from Brazil is in charge of a game at. ‘this level’.

Complaining Griezmann should have been sent off. In fairness to Griezmann, he kept fouling until he got a yellow and I think he committed one foul afterwards, which may not even have been him as a couple of French players tackled the English one.

Complaining about having to go to VAR for the 2nd penalty is much ado about nothing as they actually got the penalty.

Ref wasn’t great but I don’t think he was unfair to either team.

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981934#Comment_119981934

That's my point......

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981994#Comment_119981994

People can support who they want. Who cares.

Same as this forum, it's an Irish soccer site, but it's rightly available to anyone anywhere to join and post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981990#Comment_119981990

The ref wasn't the reason England are out. He was an average ref for sure, but equally average for both sides.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981959#Comment_119981959

The whole "stop Mbappe" thing was bollix. France were loaded with talent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982034#Comment_119982034

Fair enough!

I will leave it there

congrats to France!

pavb2

England might have played well but didn’t create enough chances to trouble Lloris, Grealish should have been on a lot sooner.

In reality in this tournament they’ve reached their level QF’s the minimum expectation an easy enough group and the hardest team they could have faced to get to the QF was the Netherlands. As stated in commentary they need to be able to beat the elite teams but continually fall short.

Southgate’s done OK he’s stabilised them and built the foundations but to get to the next level they need a change, who I don’t know Howe and Tuchel being mentioned already.

martyos121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982081#Comment_119982081

It kinda feels like they’d benefit way more from a manager with a really strong personality coming in directly before the next tournament, just rely on the foundations that Southgate has built and go from there.

I don’t rate him at all as a manager anymore, but Mourinho coming in right before Euro 2024 would probably get that last couple of percent out of that insanely talented squad. It’s a managerial style tailor-made for international football, for one because his style of football fits the bill perfectly, but also because he’d spend less time with players so less opportunities to turn the situation into his trademark toxic mess.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981994#Comment_119981994

I do. I support my local team, and I absolutely take your point about the hypocrisy involved from Irish people who call Man U and Liverpool “We”. They don’t like that being pointed out though, I suspect it makes them uncomfortable deep down.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982144#Comment_119982144

Apologies, I was being a bit ratty! I do agree with the above though.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982116#Comment_119982116

They needed Winston Churchill and they got Iain Duncan Smith, as somebody once said...

pavb2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982230#Comment_119982230

And therein lies the problem, Gareth’s qualities as a politician exceed his ability as an international coach.

The Golden Miller

As someone not from Germany, seeing them knocked out just as they were getting going is a hard pill to swallow. Can't help feeling had they got through would of walked this tournament.

Brazil as I pointed out were spoofers. Glad everyone got to see it. A team full of arrogant individuals believing their own unfounded hype. Primma donnas, all show and no real heart or fight.

Hard to not see France win on paper but think Argentina will do it. As I said before, Argentina flaky and disjointed too, with a soft underbelly, but to their credit, they are all fighting for one another. I think it might see them through, they believe in themselves and there's a real unity in the camp, all pulling in the one direction. You just feel there's something in the air there.

For the players and squads they always have, generally one of the best, if not the best in the world, they can never seem to just click as they used to. They fight and get stuck in, but it always feels disjointed for over a decade at this stage.

Would be great to see the Argies just click and play that fluid attacking football they are renowned for. Where Brazil produced the samba footballers, Argentina specialise in the small mercurial technical player's. Would be nice to see them winning this tournament, and doing it by turning on the style we all know they are capable off!

The Golden Miller

Same people who backed England again just never learn

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981918#Comment_119981918

I don't get this train of thought. I don't see the hypocrisy of following an English team and shouting against England. The national team represents the nation and establishment, the clubs don't and originally derive from local communities, many with different ethos, many even with anti-British sentiment themselves.

And to follow from that, many in Ireland take point with the British establishment, not the English people themselves, who most would be quite fond off, and where the clubs came from. So I fail to see the hypocrisy in supporting an English team and shouting against their national team. It's really shouting against a team who represent an establishment we don't like.

I support Shels myself and would rather Irish people didn't follow the English league at the expense of our own, can follow both at least. In that sense your point is valid, but not in talking down people where there actually isn't any real hypocrisy. Just means people will double down not supporting the Irish league anyway.

The Golden Miller

Watching this world cup also drove home the point that Messi will always fall short of Maradona. He's been the best player but lacks something as a leader that Maradona had, which can't really be measured.

Messi is this teams leader, but I get the impression the team are trying their hardest to get him this world cup, as a favour nearly, as they came through looking up to him and as friends. Whereas Maradona's presence commanded respect in and of itself.

When Argentina went 2-0, that should of been it, but were a penalty shootout from going out. They led thanks to Messi, but from that position they nearly lost. As a leader, I don't think Messi had that force of will and presence to drive the game home.

This can't be measured of course, but had Maradona been there, that lead doesn't slip. In all action gung ho fashion, Maradona drives the game home from the centre of the field, no question. He had that natural leadership and ability to force his will on the match.

People can talk about talent, statistics, goals, achievements all day, but not everything can be measured. I'd love to see Messi lift the world cup, but this tournament confirmed to me that Maradona has no peers. On top of his ability, he possessed a leadership and will that separates him from the rest, Cruyff coming close possibly

AidoEirE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982420#Comment_119982420

Depends on your age to be honest, many including myself never seen Maradona kick a ball (bar the obvious videos)

I'm 34 and would of loved to see Maradona play...

But!

You would have to agree the game has evolved to when Maradona played so would he do so well in this cup?

Could also flip the coin and say would Messi have done so well in Maradona's time when tackles,referring, the game plan etc was way more straight forward.

Dont disagree with anything you said as I cant compare it.

Would love Messi to lift the Cup. I'm a silly fan though, when I've always thought Messi was 'meh sure he does it in a easy league' or some other excuse. He's definitely world class and his reading of the game and passes is not natural.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982349#Comment_119982349

I have been warned so best not to get in to it really, but all valid points and taken on board!

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982042#Comment_119982042

There was a foul on Saka before France went up field and got their first goal. The French were kicking lumps out of him and the ref was letting a lot go.

England should of had a peno earlier on in game. These instances were as clear as day, not even in question. Griezman was very lucky not to be booked much sooner.

Where were the comparable French benefits from the ref?

Its funny that some people are saying “ but they got two penos”. Yes they got two penalties that were penos (one that the ref didn’t initially give) and did not get a third penalty that was a penalty.

The ref was a joke and he gave French more favourable decisions, were it any of our teams we would be fuming.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982522#Comment_119982522

Watch clips of maradonna on 1982 v 1986 World Cup. Laws were changed to protect players like maradonna between the two WCs and look at the difference.

Now consider the laws that have changed since where it’s becoming a near non constant sport. Maradonna (and many other great technical players of eras Gone by) would probably thrive even more so now.

Transporting messi and Ronaldo back then would be fun. I’m 92.56% certain they wouldn’t of had a fraction of the achievements and goals they got. I’m absolutely certain they’d be injured alit more and their bodies would be broken by the time they hit 30.

Osmosis Jones

I actually can't believe it's almost 2023 and we're still trying to compare players who played 40 years apart

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981962#Comment_119981962

Ya but that's 3 tournaments now where they have gone out to teams they had on the ropes.

He ended the small team mentality in qualifying but he is still too cautious in the big games. They need to learn to put 2 into teams and stop doing the Ireland.

Southgate was the right man to bring in these kids and build the feel-good factor they never had before but they need someone else to finish the job.

rob316

It's so difficult comparing players of different generations, the game has changed alot since maradonna. All I know is, messi is undoubtedly the best player I've seen in my 30 years of watching football. He was kicked up and down la Liga if you think he couldn't handle the physical aspect of the past. Would he have had the longevity of the past, maybe not but Messi is not a player I'd consider unsuitable for a battle.

Many of the great midfielders we remember couldn't play today's game, technical skill trumps the physical aspects of bygone eras.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981990#Comment_119981990

I thought the red was good. He let the game flow, there were some frees he didn’t give either team.

It’s absolutely bollocks to say he favoured France. But I see it’s the narrative today.

The problem with England is the midfield. You can’t play Rice and Henderson, Or Rice and Phillips in the Euros, and expect to beat real quality sides well. There is no creativity there. Southgate seems absolutely wedded to 2 big units in midfield

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982420#Comment_119982420

someone told me Messi has Asperger’s, doesn’t lend itself to being a charismatic leader.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982688#Comment_119982688

Ah stop, the physicality of la is no patch on the EPL. The physicality of the EPL today isn’t a patch on what it was 20 years ago.

Players today have absolutely every single advantage to be the best versions of themselves. They have the most money so can focus entirely on their profession. They have specialists helping them in every facet of their lives to be at the peak level they can achieve.

That doesn’t even factor in the laws in the game that’s basically ending the proper hard man roles in midfield and defence. Some of the best defenders are probably as good at passing/dribbling as they are at tackling, tho tells you all you need to know about how the game has evolved

In many ways Its good that it’s evolved this way, particularly for technical players , but the physicality of the sport today from decade ago is like comparing boxing with tag rugby.

elefant

I'm pretty surprised Messi's leadership is being called into question for this world cup. Not only do the squad and the supporters seem to be totally rallying around him and taking inspiration from his presence in the squad, but he has been the player stepping up at all of the big moments for Argentina and pulling them through every game. Everything about the Argentinian drive to win the world cup is based around him.

He's been incredible, under enormous pressure. What more could you expect from a leader?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982789#Comment_119982789

Its just another one of Millers train of thought posts that has no basis in reality.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982628#Comment_119982628

England should of had a peno earlier on in game. These instances were as clear as day,

https://metro.co.uk/2022/12/10/why-england-were-not-given-a-penalty-after-harry-kane-was-fouled-by-frances-upamecano-17915819/

This one? I wouldn't say it was clear as day, likely just outside the box

Where were the comparable French benefits from the ref?

Shaw nudged Giroud in the box and he went over. By the letter of the law...