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Clubs / Ranges becoming overly restrictive and obtuse

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Precisely

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Any range I have encountered will not give out attendance records for non members.

    One long time friend of mine who I have brought to the range several times recently got his first licence, and as part of his competence proof he mentioned the many times he had attended the range with me and other shooting buddys.

    FO asked for attendance record from the range, or even a letter saying he had attended as a guest and the range said they don't give out such letters for non members, likely for the very reason in that SI.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    No range can, let alone will, give out range attendance for non members as there is.no way of tracking it.

    Most of what I spoke about was from a few years back when vigilance on AGS behalf may not have been what it is today and that is as a direct result of the ranges instituting such changes as the OP has outlined in order to keep within the SIs.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,303 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Annual attending is a requirement for licensing in certain places.

    For example, Rifle shooting in Australia requires 4 annual attendances. Pistol shooting requires between 6. But increases if you have 2 or 3 pistols.

    exactly to prevent the kind of abuse you refer to.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Luckily we have no such minimum requirements but one over the three year license wouldn't cut it, I'd imagine and none is self explanatory

    Common sense would dictate that if you join and never attend then the reason you gave to get the firearm is no longer valid. Hence the revocation.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Everything/Everyone is becoming overly restrictive and obtuse. I think its a combo of the newfound grá for authoritarianism that emerged during covid and the arrogance resulting from economic prosperity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    You've to provide proof of membership of a range when applying for a firearms licence if your reason is target shooting. I photocopy my club ID badge and supply it with my applications/renewals.

    A guest wouldn't have a guest badge so they can't provide proof of membership of a range.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    The range I am a member of requires guests to fill in a form. Both the member and the guest have to provide details so they'd be able to track the number of visitors, when they attended etc.

    Giving out that info to a third party is a totally different matter.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Correct, but as I said above;

    Cass - Most of what I spoke about was from a few years back when vigilance on AGS behalf may not have been what it is today.

    I know lads that got firearms without being a member, got unrestricted licenses for restricted firearms, etc, etc.

    Things have improved since.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Not following. The "third party" you mention would be AGS and it's a legal requirement for ranges to have, keep and provide this information to AGS when requested.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I was answering your post and the point you made below.

    No range can, let alone will, give out range attendance for non members as there is.no way of tracking it.

    My point was that yes, you can track it by having visitors fill in a form. I wasn't clear in my response so apologies, I meant third parties who are not AGS.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Ah, gotcha.

    You're correct again and my previous is very broad and factually wrong. My own range takes attendance if guests so I can only attribute my comment about not tracking non members to the fact they wouldn't digitally swipe in and any tracking would require manually searching entry books.

    Apologies for the confusion.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭.243


    Anyone ever come across been refused from using a clay pigeon facility even though you are paying to shoot as a non member ???



  • Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Uinseann_16


    These are being asked for more often in the last couple of years... its no longer odd for a club to get a request of range attendance



  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭jb88


    If the range is decent enough, bringing guests to the range shouldnt be a concern.

    If you are worried about storage fees, store your stuff at home, you should have a licence for it.

    If I go to a range with the intention of test firing a gun before I buy it, then thats what I do. (With about 8 exceptions where I have bought guns without test firing them, but they were from overseas or I had them built so I knew what they were like)

    Ive never been questioned about guests on any range and ive been a member of 3 over the years. Ive introduced several new or existing shooters members of other ranges. Never experienced a problem. Maybe its the way ive gone about it. A range operator never refuses cash on the day, thats a given.

    Its very simple if you dont like the rules or facilities, look around for an alternative. Shop around.

    I will say one thing, I talked to or knew via a previous encounter in my youth or via a work friend or eventually via other shooters what the lie of the land is on any range or target club ive been a member of. All have their pitfalls and advantages.

    Figure out what shooting you like and get a good solid network of shooters you know and trust and use that as the basis of what kind of shooter you want to be and the facilities you need.

    Stay out of club politics and bitching sessions. Believe me you get nothing from it. I much prefer a range where I turn up, shoot and leave. No drama and all my objectives are met for the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,994 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I much prefer a range where I turn up, shoot and leave. No drama and all my objectives are met for the day.

    Fact!!!

    I hear some scuttlebutt of one range event,where some poor sod on the line didn't have his pistol muzzle down resting on the board/table/whatever after all shots fired for the RO to inspect for empty chamber and mag and clear with the usual commands of drop mag,slide forward, hammer or striker down, holster or case.

    He was holding the gun off the board but still empty and facing downrange with the slide back.As is common in many clubs.If this was a problem,the RO should have pointed this out on the line there and then. Nothing was said there on the line,but apparently the RO reported this to superiors later on in the day,and the hapless member was rang after hours on his private number and lambasted for his faux pas at home!!!

    If true, I guess someone is looking for a new range to call home!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Sounds like a poor enough effort from the RO to be honest. Even if it is the club's rules to have the pistol muzzle resting on a board/table/whatever, a simple instruction to the shooter while on the line is all that's needed to handle the situation.



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