Ad awareness about electricity saving?

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119773620#Comment_119773620

I think that's a myth, my mother was on a smart plan a few years ago after the smart meter was installed. Wasn't making sense and she's back on 24h now.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119773638#Comment_119773638

No provider will currently let you switch back. Nor are they likely to start doing so again

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119773448#Comment_119773448

Depending on the smart tariff you choose, there might be a window from 2-4am (night boost I think it's called) where the rate per kWh is cheaper than current non smart 24hr rates, but every other hour of the day the smart rate will be more than the current 24hr or day/night rates. Add to that the smart tariff standing charges are also higher than non smart tariff standing charges..

So yes, if you can fit the vast majority of your usage into that 2-4am window, then you probably could end up better off on a smart tariff, but for the vast vast vast vast vast majority of folk, they simply won't be able to do that (unless they install 10-20kWh of batteries that they can charge up in that 2 hour window to then use over the other 22 hours of the day).

In an EV in 2 hours the most you can put in a car is 14kWh, so in or around 20%-25% for most EV's..

Some smart tariff's also offer free electricity on the weekend (there was a couple on the news recently championing this idea), but who in the fcuk wants to sit around the house all weekend washing clothes/dishes..... how sad would you have to be to live that life?

In general, you'll find that folks with Solar PV systems (and maybe also EV's) tend to be a bit more aware, savvy & knowledgable around electricity usage and rates etc..... and the vast vast majority of us care not for smart meters or smart tariff's...... so make of that what you will.

Padraig Mor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119772141#Comment_119772141

You sure about that? Seems an awful lot for a few low power devices. Would have thought maybe €30 per year.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119773868#Comment_119773868

So did this info only become available after the introduction of smart meters or did electric Ireland just not tell us

BrianD3

Re: items on standby, I got an energy monitor recently and most of my items use very little on standby. From < 1 watt to about 3 watts. The ones that surprised me were the broadband modem which uses 7 watts and the sky box which uses about 7 on standby and 8 when on. Apart from those two I'd need to be plugging in and out multiple items to save 20 watts i.e. to save, at most, half a unit per day. I don't think it's worth the hassle and those items on standby are slightly warming the house anyway.

The energy usage of anything using electricity for heating water/air dwarfs any savings from plugging out stuff. The item that annoys me the most is my old style tumble dryer given the amount of heat (money) that goes straight out the vent.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119774632#Comment_119774632

It won't dwarf to the extent you might think because if something is running 24h a day it will add up a lot. Half a unit a day is still 60 quid a year that you could be spending on kebabs or pints or something much healthier

L1011

Anyone who uses the dryer a lot would be well advised to at least look at going for a heatpump dryer now. The cheapest in Powercity is now 400 (and is A++ when some dearer are 'only' A+) - they were nearly 4 figures not terribly long ago.

At current electricity prices they could pay for themselves in two/three years on the electricity savings alone - but they also dump the waste heat in to the room, not outside. You can also seal up the vent hole and improve the insulation of the room / stop draughts through the dryer as could happen before.

They are slower, so maybe not suitable for big families that need them running constantly. But they can do relatively large loads too. You can use a water drain or empty a water cassette every two/three loads.

Mine has an estimate of 176kWH/year for normal use on its energy sticker. A conventional dryer can be about 600! If you use it more than normal, that saving will be higher.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119774654#Comment_119774654

I'm all for saving money - but plugging in and out many items every day for a year to save 60 quid, not worth it in my view.

Irish households apparently use on average around 4000 units per year and I would presume that heating, cooking, drying and items that can't really get plugged out (e.g. fridges) make up the vast majority of this.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119774675#Comment_119774675

They expect a minimum room temperature though to make the heat-pumping easier for themselves. So no good if your dryer is in de shed

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119774746#Comment_119774746

I know it would semi defeat the purpose (as they also use electricity (but just a lot less)), but loads of those wi-fi smart plugs could help automate this process somewhat... If you know that midweek certain appliances are never used after a certain time at night and not before a certain time the following day, they could be timed to knock off during those hours....

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119774796#Comment_119774796

True. If you do hammer the use of one it could still be worth trying to find somewhere in the house for a heatpump one now; but clearly not as convenient as just replacing one where it is.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771968#Comment_119771968

Available online too

https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/6ca43-reduce-your-use/

dxhound2005

I heard the radio ad again on Morning Ireland at around 7.30. It covers a lot of what the OP was looking for, but apparently was not aware of.

AvalonEnaid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770522#Comment_119770522

Turning your thermostat down to 20 or 19 is a small part of the overall equation to energy efficiency. You will want to focus on your flow temperature to see good savings.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119773613#Comment_119773613

It depends on the age of the device but in general you are right. My TV uses 0.5W on standby; it will take 83 days before it uses 1 kWh, at €0.4341 cents per kWh comes out to €1.91 for a year on standby. This is assuming it's on standby 24/7, so even less because it will definitely be in use.

The same can be said for lights to some degree, assuming your household are using LED lights; 1 bulb will use €19.03 per year if left on 24/7. Multiply that by the number of bulbs you have in your house and it can start to add up.

My fridge uses 169 kWh/year, at the current elec price, it adds up to €73.37 per year.

Pretty much any device that uses some form of fuel to generate heat is always going to be a households largest expense. To rub salt into the wound, it's exceptionally difficult and a hell of a lot of hassle to limit our use of these devices.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119772141#Comment_119772141

I'm super curious to know what your devices were doing to use €30 every two months because something doesn't add up.

My media player uses €13.32 per year.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771397#Comment_119771397

I've heard differently and always found it strange. A quick google search led me to this article, which may have industry backing, but I read it anyway

https://www.realhomes.com/advice/dishwasher-vs-hand-washing

It says that dishwashers use less energy to heat the water than hand washing. It also says that less water is used than when hand washing! Apparently modern dishwashers are more efficient because they don't use your home’s hot water. This doesn't seem to make a whole load of sense if there's plenty of spare hot water in the immersion.

Yet interestingly, all comparisons are made on the assumption that your tap in running during hand washing. But if a "running tap flows at around 2 gallons (9 litres) per minute" then I'd say I'd use 3-4 litres of water to do the wash-up, so that's about 23 seconds to fill the basin. I then leave just a little dribble of cold water for the rinse... which doesn't add up to very much. So if you compare that to a 'modern' dishwasher, which (in one part of the article) they say is 10 litres, well then you don't actually use more! And old dishwashers prior to 2,000 can apparently use up to 25 litres. Funnily, further on in the article it says that if your dishwasher is a highly efficient Energy Star-certified dishwasher, then it uses less than "4.25 (~19 litres!) gallons of water per cycle". So that's kind of a contradiction between '19 litres' and the first mention of 10 litres!

It's impossible to figure out for sure.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119775965#Comment_119775965

Taking hot water in means it needs to be cooled down to the correct temperature, which means using more water to do so, more space inside to mix the water or damage to glassware from thermal shock if you do the mixing in the main tub.

Also, a dishwasher washes a lot more than one sink of water does. Try four or five sinks (or ten washing up basins).

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119772386#Comment_119772386

Forgive me, but I'm not sure I follow... "the normal standing charge was getting a discount while the low usage was the standard". I presume if EI said that, then it would be a contradiction we're not supposed to spot.

If EI were to try and spin it that way, what would be the difference between the "normal standing charge" and the low use standing charge?

I must also ask if you happen to recall the justification for bringing in standing charges? And now that they've been taken away by EI, have other companies like Bord Gais had to drop them too?

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119775997#Comment_119775997

So if the immersion is on, the dishwasher takes water from both the cold and hot tap, and mixes them to the right temp, before pumping it into the dishwasher itself? If that is the case, then there'd be no cooling involved. Or does it choose either hot or cold, and then heat/cool dependingly?

Do you agree with the above article that dishwashers are more energy efficient? And do you agree with the waters quantities mentioned?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119776281#Comment_119776281

No dishwasher sold in the past thirty years, if ever, has done that. They only take cold. I explained why.

Devices that do have a hot feed (older washing machines, for instance) are unable to perfectly draw in exact amounts of hot water to mix down to the correct temperature; so they need space internally to do so and end up using excess water.

They are more energy efficient - they heat precisely the water they need to precisely the temperature they need. Your immersion is the opposite of that.

I cannot agree with specific figures in articles as I don't have the kit or time to check them. However, your idea that you can do the same amount of dishes as a dishwasher load in 3-4 litres is hugely off, probably by 10x.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119776307#Comment_119776307

You can manually wash dishes with very little water if you have to. But most dont. It is perfectly technically feasible to make a dishwasher that could mix the exact amount from hot/cold source but the crowd that make them must deem it's not worth doing as you need extra components (flow/pressure meter, extra inlet valve) and these could give bother. It would be useful to have a dishwasher that did that and ran off DC voltage if you are off the grid but it would be a niche item.

Ush1

It would be wasteful anyway, what's the point in heating water that you then cool down.

tjhook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119775922#Comment_119775922

I'm super curious to know what your devices were doing to use €30 every two months because something doesn't add up.

Yeah, very possible I'm mistaken, I've calculated as best I could but I'm not exactly knowledgable...

The receiver was consuming almost 60W on standby... others with the same receiver experienced the same. It was quite warm to the touch.

https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/home-cinema-projectors-players/str-dn-1080-stand-by-high-power-consumption/td-p/2673163/page/2

That alone, 24/7, would be 86kwh per 2-monthly bill... about €27 at my unit rate. Assuming I know how to work it out. (59w * 24 hours * 60 days, /1000 to convert to kwh. *0.32 to convert to euros)

I measured the media player at 16w powered on... about €7.50 per 2-monthly bill.

I read that the Virgin cable box consumes 12w on "warm standby", but only 1.3w on a colder standby. That's a difference of about a fiver per 2-monthly bill.

The woofer is strange... it's large, about 45cm high/wide/long, and appeared to consume about 12w when powered on. Sounds strange to me, but that would be another fiver or so every 2-monthly bill.

The receiver is the big one, but even though the other three bits are small, they seem to add up to over €15 per 2-monthly bill.

I rounded the total down earlier, because I'm not sure about my measurement of the woofer in particular. But it might actually be €45 per 2-monthly bill. Or I'm totally wrong :)

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771391#Comment_119771391

They were fattened up for privatisation. It was known that the new owners could freewheel for years.

We had way better direct dialling coverage than the UK at the time.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119776307#Comment_119776307

So do some dishwashers have a compartment that we can't see somewhere where mixing occurs? If some old ones had a hot feed, would that mean that the dishwasher would have a sensor checking the temperature of the water in the pipes coming from the water tank? It seems like a better idea for rural dwellers as they can afford to waste the water... having their own well. Most of the energy would be used during heating I'd imagine. Anyway, I don't mean to annoy.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119777118#Comment_119777118

I don't think any dishwashers had them. Old washing machines did, and they just used huge amounts of cold to bring the hot down to the required temperature; in the drum, scalding the clothes until the temperature was brought down. But that would actually break dishes (glassware mainly), so it couldn't be done in the chamber, hence why you'd have to sacrifice space for it to happen beforehand.

Modern dishwashers (outside the US where they are about 50 years behind, as always) take the mains water in through a heat exchange and heat it in the chamber; the heat exchange pre-heating later intakes of water with the heat of the waste water.

And most rural dwellers don't have their own well anyway, but if you do you don't want to over-use it either so would be more careful than someone on mains.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119776459#Comment_119776459

It'd be mixed with the cold water, right?

Brid Hegarty

@L1011 Modern dishwashers (outside the US where they are about 50 years behind, as always) take the mains water in through a heat exchange and heat it in the chamber; the heat exchange pre-heating later intakes of water with the heat of the waste water.

I'm sorry but there's no way that last sentence is worded right. It's driving me mad as I'd really like to understand. Maybe if I were a plumber, I could guess what you meant to say, but I can't.

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119773868#Comment_119773868

Great post... you should send that explanation to the CRU. The are completely clueless about what is going on in the marketplace and reluctant to do anything about it when it is pointed out to them.

Bottom line is we will never have cheap electricity, while it is a totally commercial market. Who thought that pinning wind generated power to the price of oil and gas was ever going to benefit the consumer?. They way the market is structured at present, we will always have to pay more, for using less... otherwise how can a commercially motivated market survive?

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119776307#Comment_119776307

The Miele dishwasher I bought this year has the ability to do that

Hot water connection

Save up to 50 % electricity*

Up to 50 % electricity savings*: all Miele dishwashers can be connected to hot water at up to 60 °C.

This is all the models that take a hot water supply

https://m.miele.ie/domestic/range-of-dishwashers-2498.htm#49

We replaced our washing machine and dishwasher this year and saving around 150 euro this year. They weren't cheap ones mind !