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Considering getting a PHEV - anyone happy with theirs?

  • 11-10-2022 11:11am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭


    I'm considering getting a PHEV - is anyone happy with theirs? I have read lots of complaints on range, anyone getting 50/60k reliably? And is there a PHEW out there with a decent boot size?



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    What's your use case? Generally you'll save more money in a full EV



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭MercuryBoy


    Need something capable of doing longish drives (2 hours +) on weekends and 5-10k daily on weekdays.. not sure a full EV would have the range for the longer journeys? Also need something with a good amount of space for 2 dogs and a child, have been considering the Peugeot 2008 & 3008, Kia Niro & Sportage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,120 ✭✭✭kirving


    You're likely to hear lots of people dead set against them here, and from a statistical point of view they might be correct, but if a BEV doesn't work for you, it's a non-runner and a PHEV can be a great alternative.

    Realistically though, 50/60km is very optimistic outside of anything but absolutely ideal conditions for most PHEV's.

    Budget? New / Second hand? Size requirements? If you can afford a full EV with the range you need, and it suits you, go for it.



    As an anecdote, I can do my daily commute on EV mode, and much of my weekend driving on EV mode. But my weekly Dublin-Galway commute puts an EV out the window. I sometimes need to do Dublin-Galway-Dublin in a single day too. I rent in both Dublin and Galway, and while I can charge using a granny cable at both, I'd spend over a years worth of fuel savings on chargers for both places which I'd need with an EV that could do that range.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,394 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Well 2 hours is a bit ambiguous, I can sit in Dublin traffic for 2 hours and only travel 30km 😉

    But it sounds like you're looking for 300km+ of range. There's plenty of BEVs which can cover that. ID.4, EV6, Ioniq 5, Ariya, Toyota BZ4X or whatever it's called. They should all cover the range and have plenty of boot space

    Now, there's a question you'd need to ask yourself is whether you can and are willing to use public charging on those longer drives. If you're on a well served route then it could be worthwhile to sacrifice 20 mins a week to save thousands on the cost of the car


    This is all assuming you can get a home charger and day/night meter to charge cheaply. If you don't then this is a hurdle you'll need to figure out before considering anything with a plug, EV or PHEV

    To answer your original question, there's plenty of happy PHEV owners here who swear they're better than EVs. There's also a large number of EV drivers who say PHEVs are outdated and have too little battery range

    It's up to the use case, but what I will say is that a PHEV only works if you drive it on electric for the vast majority of the time. This means you're plugging it in almost every night.

    From what you've said you can probably get most of your weekday driving on electric with a charge every second night. Then charge up on Friday and Saturday to try and get as much of the weekend in EV mode

    If that's not something you can manage then perhaps a big battery BEV is the way to go, then you only need to plug in once a week


    For context, I've an ID.4 77kWh and generally I'm doing similar driving to you, probably a bit less at weekends. I'm currently charging once a week, sometimes twice if I do a lot of driving at the weekend

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭MercuryBoy


    the main thing that puts me off a full EV is having to consider changing when arriving at a destination , the last thing I want to do after a long drive is go looking for a charger etc then have to move the car and park it again , seems like it would add at least an hour onto each journey and if I’m going away for a weekend I don’t want that hassle ….



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭MercuryBoy


    How much is charging at home costing people these days ? I’ve heard it costs around €10 ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,568 ✭✭✭eagerv


    I only use destination charging when it is convenient for me, otherwise most of us probably prefer the more expensive on route fast charging which will probably be relatively rare so price doesn't really come into it.

    Of the cars you mentioned I would consider the E Niro, great range and warranty, not sure of current pricing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    Depends on your battery size and your electricity rate. Just multiply the two and add 10% to allow for loss.

    Something with a big battery on night rate would be pushing a tenner alright. A lot cheaper than fuel per 100km.

    My father in law bought a Niro PHEV in 2020, fairly similar use case to yourself, weekday pottering and regular trips to relatives down the country. I told him at the time to buy the full EV version but the fear got him, so PHEV was what he went for.

    He collected his new full EV version of the Niro last week. Now wishes he had done so first time around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭kanuseeme



    Does the e-niro price include the grant?

    I would think its easy enough to get 50 km from the phev, 2000 euro buys a lot of petrol,

    Any of the phevs stated range, knock 20% off it, to get a more realistic range, its possible to get more and also possible to get less, but a nice non-aggressive driving style should easily do it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    From your use case, few km during the week and an hour or two at weekends, you'd be mad to get anything other than a full EV. Either save money on the initial cost and get a cheap petrol car, or save money on running costs and have a cheaper total cost of ownership and get a full ev. PHEV are in the worst of both worlds.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thinking long term I'd say the EV will easily be worth 2k more when it's time to trade in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭cannco253


    I regularly do Galway-Dublin-Galway in a day.

    With the ID.4 I stop for 10 minutes at Ionity Athlone on the way up and 15 minutes on the way back, just enough time to use the facilities and grab some food.

    If you sign up to one of the Ionity plans it pays for itself fairly quickly, and Athlone has (usually) 4 working chargers.

    Can also use the eCars at Kiltullagh or Carnmore before you get into Galway so you’re not worrying about finding a charger in the city. I avoid charging in Dublin when possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 294 ✭✭eltoastero


    My previous car was the PHEV Golf GTE, loved it, best car to drive that I've ever had. Realistic range of 25km in winter or 35km-40km in summer from an 8kWh battery. That was perfect for most of my day to day, and then no issue when needing to go across the country.

    But, the downsides were that boot was 100L smaller than a petrol Golf....... actually that's my only beef really (it won't take 3 kids but nothing in that segment will).

    What it did was push me into a full EV - I got hooked on the relaxing (but spirited) mechanics of electric driving. I think PHEVs have a place to bridge the gap if you're not comfortable with a full EV (like finding a charger on the other side, or having to learn about charging curves and all the public charge point providers, all the stuff I built up overtime while owning the PHEV and is now second nature).

    As for cost, it costs me under €7 to fully charge my car (77kWh at 9c per kWh). I know that's going up when my fixed rate contract ends next month. That's good for 350km of range in worst case scenarios (motorway in winter) and 450km to 500km on the slower drives in summer.

    I personally don't see the point in buying a non-electrified new car right now (apart from them costing more, but I think the increased depreciation on an ICE car negates the difference in cost now). Second hand ICE - then fire ahead, there's value to be had (as second hand BEV or PHEVs are still hard to come by).

    But do check out the boot on the PHEV version compared to the ICE or BEV equivalent (like the Niro) - there's a sizable reduction which could be a deal breaker)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,394 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'd kind of second what @eagerv said, I've only used destination charging twice in the past 18 months.

    You tend to adapt by picking places where a destination charger is easily available, like a hotel charger for example. Or if you're staying in a holiday home you can charge using the granny lead


    Then you just move your car when it's fully charged, unless there's other people waiting on the charger.

    Or you just stop for a bit longer to DC charge if you aren't bothered

    I guess it's fair to say that there are gains and trade offs in owning an EV. One of the trade offs is more planning around charging stops, and sometimes going out of your way to charge. I'll say from personal experience there isn't nearly as much involved as some people portray


    On the gains side, no more petrol stations and the associated heart attach when you see the cost of a tank of fuel


    It's up to you whether the gains are worth it. Also, I won't lie, there is a transition time while you get used to the car and you'll be a bit nervous about range until you've gotten past it

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭MercuryBoy


    For full EVs, what's the projected lifetime of the battery? Could you expect it to be working in 10 years?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,111 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Battery will outlive the car, but you do get some degradation / range loss. Roughly about 10-20% after 8-10 years. Pretty much all EVs now have an 8 year warranty on the battery (with some mileage limitation)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 294 ✭✭eltoastero


    Yes, maybe not with the same capacity but I'd be shocked if my battery is less than 90% of what it is now (based on what I've seen with cars with good Battery Management Systems and that I do most of my charging at slower (cooler) AC speeds).

    Most manufacturers give very good warranties on their batteries and their systems, usually around the 7 / 8 years and 160000km of driving (tesla offer 4 years but their batteries would be the ones I worry about least).

    The rest of the car will fall apart before the battery will.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭ELM327




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,394 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yep, although you'll have some degradation in that time


    Modern EVs have a buffer between their total battery capacity and useable capacity to cover any degradation over the lifetime and protect the battery

    They also come with a battery warranty, typically guaranteeing a minimum capacity after 8 years for 160,000km for example

    That doesn't mean the car is useless after that time, just that the battery will continue to degrade

    Most EVs sold in 2012 are still in use today. They've generally been downgraded to local use, but most of them were small battery Leafs and Zoe's so they didn't have a huge amount of range to begin with

    If an ID.4 loses 20% of its range in 10 years, which should be a bit extreme, it still have enough to drive Dublin to Cork

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,394 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Just to be clear, you should make your own decisions based on your needs and your budget. There'll also be a waiting time for any new cars, so factor that in


    But I would recommend test driving both a PHEV and EV to see how you find them. Make sure you book ahead to any dealerships you speak to so they have the cars charged and ready to go

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    A lot of first gen EVs have little to no degradation. It's only the crappy leaf batteries that degrade so bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭mc2022B2TF


    PHEV works well if you do lots of short journeys each day but if you are doing regular long journeys (say once a week) i don't understand why anyone would by a PHEV.

    I'd either go with full ICE or BHEV. And if your route has fast charging then literally stopping for 10 minutes will splash and dash you enough to get home or to your destination.

    For me i do the daily kids drop off, gym etc. and about 3 round trips to/from Dublin weekly of about 170km round. Never have to charge at fast chargers and all charging done at home on night rate of €0.079 per kWh. Its literally the dream type of car for me - the cost of running the car is practically free at those energy prices when compared to diesel/petrol.

    Doing a trip to Galway soon - i'll have enough range to get their and destination charge overnight and then get home. With suc's at Athenry, Enfield and CB even if i am stuck for a bit of charge i'll pop in there for 15 mins and away i go. But i will try and avoid any fast charging if i can, if its not needed.

    Plus, i can't drive for more that 90 mins without stopping for a stretch break so i'd be doing that anyway.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,841 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    At 75 mph a 2 hour drive is 150 miles.

    A modern EV with a battery over 60 kwh can do that non stop.

    Or do you mean 2 hrs each way - ie 300 miles round trip.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭whippet


    I have both an BEV and PHEV on my driveway.

    I commute about 130km per day round trip - 90% motorway and I have free charging in the office.

    The BMW 330e on average returns 1.9l/100km over a week - I find the 'adaptive' mode the best for efficiency. I don't really know the EV consumption on that as I don't really check as half the charging is free to me. Then over the weekend's I'd rarely do much driving outside of the normal running around locally.

    The Leaf40 returns about 14kwh/100km on the same commute.

    The PHEV will be as thirsty as any 2l Turbo petrol on longer journeys and the boot space is very very small .. but with two and half years of owner ship and 35,000km on the clock the amount of times i've needed a bigger boot have been minimal and that is what the second car is used for. I did a fairly long driving holiday around Ireland in it last year and with a roof box it was more than ample for the 4 of us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭MercuryBoy


    I live in mainland Europe, in the winter I go up to the mountains which could be a 2-4 hour drive each way, don't really want to be worrying about scrambling for chargers in busy ski resorts etc when i should be enjoying myself...thats my main concern



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭MercuryBoy


    Looking at this the "real range" of a Kia e-Niro in mild weather is 340km, in cold 265km, still a bit short for me https://ev-database.org/car/1338/Kia-e-Niro-64-kWh



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,120 ✭✭✭kirving


    • 320i 184hp 53k
    • 330i 245hp 61k
    • 320d 190hp 55k
    • 330e 292hp 53k
    • 320d xdrive 58k
    • 330e xdrive 55k
    • i4 340hp 65k

    A 330e PHEV is the same price as the cheapest ICE version, so it's a no brainer over full ICE if you're in the market for a family BMW.

    Versus an i4, it's €12k cheaper. Admittedly a different driving experience, but the target market is similar for both. To save €12k in fuel over 3 years (at todays rates), you'd need to be doing 50,000km/year, or 140km every day in the i4 to break even, and never once charge the 330e.

    Perhaps an extreme example picking BMW's offerings, but even a Niro PHEV is €4.5k less then than the EV, which is a lot of fuel for the majority of people, with the added complication of planning trips with a family. All of the above is assuming you're buying new of course.

    My brother recently bought a new 40kWh Leaf for €33k. He does low mileage, but when you added up all the costs of motoring over 3 years, the Leaf was about the same TCoO (tax, insurance, 0% finance, few hundred for repairs) as an overprices €22k second hand car. Made total sense for him to go with a Leaf when we ran the numbers.

    Best I've got from my 330e (with a dodgy battery) on a long run was a few weeks ago, Dublin-Galway 4.95l/100km, starting with a full charge (60c or so). Normally between 5.5 and 5.7 though tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,394 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I don't suppose you could narrow that down slightly? Mainland Europe is a fairly large chunk of land 😁

    If you're west of the German/Polish border then you're grand. The charging networks in western Europe are way better than the Irish networks


    You've got the likes of Ionity and Tesla networks which work across Europe, not to mention loads of local networks which are improving constantly

    If you're thinking about what going up a snowy mountain is like in an EV then I'd suggest looking up a YouTube channel called Bjorn Nyland (Teslabjorn) and look at his Geilo tests


    Here's a good example

    Another forum user recently commented that they'd have no concerns driving from Ireland to Romania in an EV but driving to Connemara would have them p1ssing themselves with fear

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭whippet


    A decent analysis .. although ... the guide price of the i4 is a little misleading .. I was going to order one during the summer to replace the 330e and by the time I had it quoted and configured it was closer to €73k !! The 330e with MSport Plus pack and a few other extras was €53k new in 2020 .. so it's more a €20k gap like for like



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    This obviously changes things slightly. You should have probably have mentioned in your opening post that your use case in the winter is different to 99.99% of people in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,111 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @kirving - "Versus an i4, it's €12k cheaper. Admittedly a different driving experience, but the target market is similar for both. To save €12k in fuel over 3 years"

    The sums are very different than that. Fuel is only one aspect. The depreciation on a 330e will be far higher than on a base i4. I'd say the total cost of ownership over say 3 years will be similar enough if you do average miles, or cheaper in case of the i4 if you do above average mileage. While you have a far superior and far faster car that doesn't pollute at the tailpipe.

    No brainer. But the other way around ;-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,111 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @MercuryBoy - it would have helped explaining that you are not in Ireland. When you're asking a question on an Irish forum...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    Im in ireland. Public charging is irrelevant to 99% of your journeys (charge at home). And even for the 1 % you can easily get a fast charge now for pittance. The best thing charging stations did was charge a high price for fast charging. I meant to mention that was for EV's. PHEV's are the worst of both worlds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,394 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    It's also a bit pointless giving the Irish prices for cars, they're generally better value on the continent 😁

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭kanuseeme




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,394 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Right, we're going to drag race an EV and a PHEV up the artificial ski slope in Kiltiernan, that'll tell us which one is the best choice for a skiing holiday up an Irish mountain 🤣

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,743 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    I had an similar use case to you and went with an Outlander PHEV. Suits us perfectly - 90% of driving is on electric and I probably only fill up once every 4-6 weeks.

    Would have preferred an electric and might have found one to suit but at the time of purchase any electric in our price range was either old and had high mileage/low range or too small. Any decent electric car that was big enough and had a decent range was about 20k extra



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭redlead


    Is this kind of the elephant in the room though? Fast chargers are almost non existent in Ireland in reality (proper 100kw plus ones). You look at Bjorn videos and there are banks of these things on almost every corner. If you are lucky here, there might be one on the journey you are planning which you will que at, but there probably won’t be. Not everyone is driving Dublin to Cork or Galway. I would need to drive Waterford to Drogheda and back same day a couple of times a month. As far as I can see, the Kilcullen stop is the only high speed charger on route and it’s always wedged.

    Last time I bought a new car five years ago, I wanted an EV but they just weren’t available for the class of car I needed. Now I’m changing again, I still want an EV and there are tonnes of great options but the infrastructure is absolute dogsh1t and I can’t see this changing anytime soon. It’s a bit disingenuous to say just go to a high speed charger because they aren’t there. I’ll probably end up getting a 330e I don’t really want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,906 ✭✭✭Alkers


    For that low regular mileage, apart from weekend trips the PHEV won't save you much money. If I was buying new I'd buy a bev but in reality in your usage case I'd probably just buy a second hand petrol.

    You need to be doing close to the ev range each day on a PHEV for them to make sense, and ideally only the odd longer spin.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭mc2022B2TF


    It's amazing how for a medium commute the bev wins every time. For me my round trip commute is under 200km in a day including school runs etc.

    I am lucky in that way that my needs totally suit a bev.

    Beverly all the way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,120 ✭✭✭kirving


    As @whippet said though, the gap is actually much more than €12k. Probably not the absolute fairest of comparisons, but it's not apples and oranges either. Maybe lemons and oranges going by my 330e experience...

    I haven't looked at BMW finance numbers either of course, but even saving €6k on fuel over 3 years, the depreciation calculation to cover the remainder is still a bit of an unknown IMO.

    The second hand market right now I don't think is indicative of what 2025 might be, for ICE, PHEV or EV.

    EV is likely to do better absolutely, but new models coming every day, battery deg concerns (true or not), inevitable higher energy costs and EV taxes, and an artificially inflated second hand market now are skewing perspectives across the EV market. Overpriced second hand ICE have a cliff to fall off too. I just can't see it as sustainable when new car production catches up to demand.

    Would you lose €14k less on an i4 than a 330e? Unlikely IMO. Again, different cars and I'd take the i4 personally, money no object - as many people do!


    In any case, for the OP, if they go EV, then fantastic, but PHEV does have a place in the market currently, given their similar purchase cost/power/potential fuel savings vs ICE.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭mc2022B2TF


    When new car production meets demand seems could be a long time away

    We seem to be assuming it will over the coming months but who's to say it won't get worse.

    A BEV with cheap home charging and especially with solar to compliment is easily the safest option imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,394 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think people get a bit single mined about the cost difference between an EV and the PHEV or ICE equivalent

    There's other ways that an EV saves money which need to be considered. Not having to spend a fortune on petrol gives you a bit more breathing space in your monthly bills.

    Maybe you take those savings and start paying off debts early, or invest in solar which enables you to save more


    Maybe you combine all those savings to pay off your mortgage early, and maybe after all that you could save lots of money and retire early 😁

    Or just spend it all on pizza and beer, it's up to you 😂

    My point is that even if the savings on an EV might be a bit dubious over the lifetime of the car, it can enable more profitable saving methods later

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭MercuryBoy


    Apologies but it was a general question on PHEVs as opposed to an Irish specific one I think



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,111 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    As you can see from the replies, not really. With a relatively big range BEV in Ireland you can do almost all your trips without charging. In some of them you can do Dublin to Galway and back to Dublin in good conditions. But you couldn't go from Amsterdam for a weekend skiing in the Alps. If you don't have a Tesla, the fast charging network in your area of Europe could be relatively poor in which case a PHEV might be a better choice, particularly if your budget is limited and you wouldn't be able to afford a Tesla with its super reliable supercharging network, or another long range BEV

    In Ireland, a BEV is almost always the better choice as there simply are almost no 1000km+ trips anyone ever does here in a day



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭cee_jay


    This is my experience too. I have a Kia Niro PHEV.

    I needed to change as my old petrol 2009 car was about to give up the ghost. I wasn't buying new, and full electric cars were few and far between - even if I wanted to buy new, I would have been waiting 6 months according to the dealer.

    All my driving in Dublin is on electric. Rarely I might just exceed the electric range.

    Trips down the country at weekends are done on petrol and I find the fuel economy excellent in comparison to my old Toyota Auris. I don't think I have put petrol in my phev since start of September, and I still have a range of 450km left on the petrol engine (that is after a return trip to Limerick since my last petrol fill).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭mc2022B2TF


    Does anyone buy an EV to help reduce their carbon footprint. Seems like its hardly ever mentioned.

    Walking the kids to school earlier and the smell of fumes is horrible

    Would be healthier to hop in the car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,608 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Evs help local carbon footprint. They are still powered by dirty grid electricity. Ironically if you charge at night, the energy can at times be more dirty than during the day because they have to cut off renewables.

    Unless of course like mine it's powered by your own solar.For me, the carbon footprint is a nice to have. I moved to EV for the cost savings. I got great cost savings doing 60k km per year in a 24kWh leaf a few years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭whippet


    Personally my reasons for going EV would be more along the thinking of ICE just isn't necessary for me anymore. When I do change the 330e it will be replaced by a premium EV of some description which will have a decent range (as will probably change it in 2024 or 2025).

    In terms of being better for the environment - that is a bonus for me really. I do see myself cringing anytime I see a little puff of smoke out of the back of a car outside the school when I'm collecting and I don't miss that early morning cold rattle when I was turning the ignition in my diesel moto



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