Considering getting a PHEV - anyone happy with theirs?

unkel · 13-10-2022 08:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737777#Comment_119737777

You can get a Hyundai Kona electric 64kWh with a real life 450km range for around €25k, with still 2 years bumper to bumper warranty and 5 years battery warranty left

ELM327 · 13-10-2022 08:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737010#Comment_119737010

They work but they are never the best option.

If you only ever use the EV range of your phev then you should have bought a cheap EV.

If you never plug it in then you should have bought a HEV or efficient petrol

If you regularly travel outside the EV range of your phev then you're getting hammered on MPG by having a big flat battery to carry and an efficient HEV/diesel would be better on fuel, but a longer range full EV would be cheaper overall TCO.

KCross · 13-10-2022 08:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737929#Comment_119737929

You were doing OK until the last paragraph, which is entirely false.

ELM327 · 13-10-2022 08:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737941#Comment_119737941

Entirely false? Read the outlander PHEV forum, one of the most popular phevs, and you'll see they get 30mpg if that when flat.

The only phevs I see being anyway decent on fuel are the Ioniq phev, prius phev etc, cars designed from the ground up for that function, and even those cars are better as a HEV rather than PHEV if you regularly exceed the EV range.

PHEVs only work if you keep them charged and drive all the time on EV mode. In which case you're carrying a lot of weight and drivetrain loss for an ICE.

KCross · 13-10-2022 09:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737975#Comment_119737975

Its false because you said "never"! 😉

I haven't driven an Outlander so I dont know about it but I presume a big car like that doesn't have great mpg to begin with, but anyway many other PHEV's have excellent mpg even with a dead battery. I did a Cork-Dublin return journey in a Niro PHEV myself a few years back and got very good figures (5.4l/100km).

Its nonsense that you get terrible mpg due to carrying a dead battery.

PHEVs only work if you keep them charged and drive all the time on EV mode.

Correct on the first part but false on the second part. You are completely missing the point of why people buy PHEV's. If they drive it all the time in EV mode then they can live with a BEV. The use case is that you do want to go outside its EV range. When you do go outside its EV range you will still get very good overall mpg as it is averaged over the journey.

Bear in mind also that PHEV's have improved alot in recent years too. They are starting to approach the battery size that original Leaf's had. EV ranges are heading towards 70km.

I drive a BEV myself but PHEV suits some people right now for many reasons.... price, charging infrastructure, availability, choice..... when all those issues are resolved then it will go the way of the dodo, but until then it remains a viable and correct choice for many.

Alkers · 13-10-2022 09:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737929#Comment_119737929

You've only considered people who never go beyond EV range and those who frequently do, the usage case is exactly those between those two cases.

We typically use petrol for one long journey per month plus the odd very small bit here or there where the car isn't charged. The small bit of petrol expenditure is gladly paid versus having to rely on the public charging network, for that monthly longer trip. Also, a long range BEV would be wasted on us not availing of its capabilities.

In this case it's like having a low range EV and a hev in the one car

unkel · 13-10-2022 09:40AM

@KCross - "Bear in mind also that PHEV's have improved alot in recent years too. They are starting to approach the battery size that original Leaf's had. EV ranges are heading towards 70km."

There is one reason and one reason only that PHEVs now have bigger batteries / longer range. If they didn't, their manufacturer could no longer offset it against a profitable diesel from an emissions fines point of view 😁

Basically the only reason PHEVs exist in the first place. Compliance. They are there because from a maximising profits point of view, their manufacturers have to make them. It makes more sense than making fully electric vehicles. And where the supply is there, there will be demand. Propped up by clever marketing and a lot of FUD. PHEV is best of both worlds, right? I don't feel ready yet for a fully electric car. Maybe my next car, right?

ELM327 · 13-10-2022 09:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738048#Comment_119738048

Apples with oranges. You can't compare used with new

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738186#Comment_119738186

+1

Also, some phevs have 20-24kWh yet only get 50-70km range. The original leaf and zoe had less than that usable but got more than 50-70km range. It's more wasteful to put 24kWh of scarce batteries in a phev to do 70km on a hot day, when you could put them in a leaf or zoe and get 100km+. A zoe won't jave degraded either so will still have the 20+kWh available

KCross · 13-10-2022 09:54AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738186#Comment_119738186

There is alot of truth in what you say there and I mentioned some other reasons too in my post above. It doesn't change the reality on the ground that PHEV's are still the right choice for some people.

When all the issues with BEV disappear then PHEV will also disappear. We're not there yet.

And I think its disingenuous of people to say that everyone that has bought a PHEV has bought the wrong car. "You" dont know the circumstances or reasons for all those people to buy a PHEV. The reasons are varied and not just down to range.

PHEV is the right choice for some. The majority should be in a BEV.

unkel · 13-10-2022 10:03AM

I don't think anybody disagrees with any of that @KCross. I've never said otherwise myself. In Ireland they are the best choice for some people. A very small minority though.

KCross · 13-10-2022 10:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738303#Comment_119738303

I don't think anybody disagrees with any of that

Point of order... 😀 "They work but they are never the best option."

That was what I was responding to.

KCross · 13-10-2022 10:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738242#Comment_119738242

It's more wasteful to put 24kWh of scarce batteries in a phev to do 70km on a hot day, when you could put them in a leaf or zoe and get 100km+

Swings and roundabouts.... given scarce battery resource in the medium term, I could argue its better to create 5 PHEV's that utilise their batteries 100% everyday than to produce 1 BEV and possibly only have 10, 20, 30% of it used everyday.

Its not just about resources though. Its about horses for courses and picking the right car for you. Saying PHEV's are never the best option is ignoring everyone else's needs besides your own.

kanuseeme · 13-10-2022 11:45AM

I have to laugh at how heavy a 10 kWh battery in a phev is, yet a 100 kWh bev is fine.

I got 30 mpg on the outlander when it was trying to burn old petrol non stop

Normal hybrid driving on the motorway 40 mpg, I think much the same as the diesel version but overall it returned 150mpg.

I agree about battery tech in its infancy, too many occasions the old " battery chemistry" card has been played and not just leafs.

You can buy a Kona diesel for 17k

Petrol 21 k both 2020 reg.

kanuseeme · 13-10-2022 12:29PM

Another thing is the cost of charging, might not apply to everyone, but an odd long distance trip in a crap low range ev could make the benefit of stopping waiting and charging seem hardly worth it when compared to the cost of fuel, for me anyway only about 400€ a year.

StupidLikeAFox · 13-10-2022 12:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737843#Comment_119737843

I don't think that's true - just had a glance at done deal and carzone and you are looking at 30k minimum for an electric kona. Plus it has less boot space than a golf so certainly wouldn't fit the ops needs either

kanuseeme · 13-10-2022 01:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739149#Comment_119739149

Its there, 2020 in Wexford. Cheaper fossil fuel Konas.

Kona ev was terrible value,

unkel · 13-10-2022 01:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739149#Comment_119739149

Of course it's true. They regularly appear in the bargain thread, have a look for yourself.

But yes, second hand electric cars can be expensive. As their depreciation is so low. Because everybody now knows they want one next ;-)

MercuryBoy · 13-10-2022 01:27PM

A Kia Niro 2017 is listed as having an average consumption of 4.4l/100km, its a hybrid but not pluggable one, seems a good compromise

Soarer · 13-10-2022 01:30PM

I have a diesel PHEV, and up until a recent job change, it suited me perfectly.

Real world range of 35km.

Would charge for free every day in work (office was 5km from the house). Also have a home chargepoint.

When I had to go to site, which was a frequent occurence, I'd get the first 35km on the company electricity and the remainder on the diesel engine. Plus I could claim mileage, which sweetened the deal.

Now that I've moved and no longer have site work, I'm looking at going back to BEV.

But my PHEV suited me perfectly for over 2 years in my last job.

kirving · 13-10-2022 02:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737929#Comment_119737929

An extra 200kg on the motorway makes very little difference to MPG, as the vast majority of the fuel is burned to overcome aerodynamic drag (unchanged), not rolling resistance (say 10% up).

If you don't charge a PHEV around town, you will suffer of course as it's more mass to accelerate, but it's not much. On balance, even uncharged PHEV's are so much nicer around town than ICE that the extra fuel would be a small price to pay.

Old diesel · 13-10-2022 05:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738748#Comment_119738748

The issue is that a petrol engine is having to drag the weight of a 10 kwh battery pack around.

Impacting its efficiency.

Whereas an EV with a bigger battery is still more efficient then most ICE cars.....

And before someone mentions the weight of a BEV.

The whole weight issue is impacted by the exact vehicle on both sides.

So a 2 tonne SUV ICE or PHEV is going to be heavier then an under 1600 kg MG 5 or a sub 1500 kg original Ioniq 28 BEV

kanuseeme · 13-10-2022 10:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740390#Comment_119740390

A 100 kWh battery tesla is just over 600 kg, 60 kg is nothing, I had 5 x 20 litres of paint in the boot for a couple of days and never even noticed it.

I think its just some made-up excuse to scare people away from buying a phev.