Landlord moving back into property. Length of notice required for tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714478#Comment_119714478

The 'ignore' option was provided as a convenient and fool-proof cyber alternative to providing gags, straight jackets and padded cells for certain posters.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715806#Comment_119715806

The religious orders probably don't have the numbers to do the work - they are mostly retired old geezers and ladies who are trying to get to the end of their lives in relative comfort.

What I am suggesting is that the state should take over these buildings in lieu of compensation owed and turn them into apartments for the needy.

As for keeping them empty, well we know that there are already a couple of hundred thousand empties in the country. Plenty of them are in good enough nick too, but an empty property here and there helps keep the rent in the stratosphere. It's a form of hoarding, and pushes up prices. But you know that already.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716463#Comment_119716463

I can only assume that you were badly hurt by a landlord in the past

You don't have to rent for very long in Ireland to get burned by a landlord. I'd say most people renting in this country have been "badly hurt" by several landlords.

I've been evicted twice because my landlord wanted to sell - two different landlords, neither ended up selling at all. In other words, they just wanted me out to push up the price for the next mark. It's not edifying at all.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717621#Comment_119717621

They cant increase the rent even if they dont sell and then rent to someone else. If they dont sell, they should have offered the property back to you before renting to someone else. The eviction to sell process comes with a Statutory Declaration, so its a big deal for a LL to be caught "manipulating the truth" in this type of case. I reckon there were some RTB Euro to collect for those cases.

Flinty997

Very common.

Shows you how badly enforced the sector is.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717702#Comment_119717702

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717748#Comment_119717748

It is very common. "Hey, I've decided to sell, please move out by X as we need to fix it up prior to selling."

So out you go, and some months later you see the property for rent on Daft. Or they even put the premises on the market (fulfilling their legal obligation), and then a while later you see it on Daft to let.

Of course legally they are obliged to let you back if the sale doesn't go through. But where are you to stay in the intervening months? The fact is that you've moved on, you live in a new premises, it's too much hassle to go after them.

Theoretically they can't increase the rent, but how does the new tenant know they are being asked for an illegally high rent?

So the law is essentially unworkable.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716206#Comment_119716206

I agree with you on this, and so does the Government seemingly. The rental sector should be left to large international investor funds who hoover up properties and run their business professionally, increasing rents, never having to reduce them, leaving properties empty rather than renting at a lesser rate. There is no place anymore for small/accidental/amateur LLs, they should all evict now while they can, before a ban on evictions is enacted.

That'll learn those silly “smaller” landlords, leave it to the big dogs.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716905#Comment_119716905

You know that when you follow Donald down the rabbit hole, by quoting him, it negates the ignore function for the rest of us.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717621#Comment_119717621

I must be in a minority so, I rented for a good few years and never had any issues with any of my landlords.

I'm aware there a cowboy landlords out there just like there are bad tenants, but fortunately there are safeguards in place for tenants. If you feel the landlords misbehaved you can report them to the RTB.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119723620#Comment_119723620

If you feel the landlords misbehaved you can report them to the RTB.

You see this is one area where the system is useless. 6 months after leaving a property you were renting you have moved on and very few people would even be bothered checking up. I only found out because in one case an ex-neighbour told me new tenants had moved in, and in another I was keeping an eye on rental prices at the time, so I was checking Daft a lot. But you move on and let things go. You can't spend your life being bitter and trying to get back at people all the time.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119723757#Comment_119723757

Have you actually read the op?

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119723765#Comment_119723765

Is that post no 1, where someone wants to evict a tenant in breach of their rights under the law?

Yeah, the matter of landlords evicting people in breach of the law is what I have been talking about.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119723757#Comment_119723757

Well that's your choice then not to hold them to account, you were aware that both landlords did not follow legalisation and did nothing. The RTB are not just going to happen upon landlords acting outside of the law unless it's reported. Landlords acting in this manner will continue until they are penalised. We can't really come on here and complain about the broken system when our own inaction is contributing to it.

del roy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711898#Comment_119711898

ABSOLUTE brilliant answer.

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711039#Comment_119711039

They rented out the property with certain agreements. One day Darragh OBrien announced that the notice periods have now doubled. The landlord did not agree to this.

Giblet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119723860#Comment_119723860

For 4 year tenancy, it increased 8 days.

tvjunki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725005#Comment_119725005

Big change in shorter rentals:

Notice period for less than 6months changed from 28days to 90days.

6months to year from 90days to 152days.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725510#Comment_119725510

A d this has huge implications where you are serving if there is any error you could end up going from 90 to 152 days as well a tenant dose not need to create an objection until the day before he is due to exit the house

C3PO

I am generally quite sympathetic to landlords but having to give a tenant six months notice when they have lived somewhere for in excess of 4 years does not seem unreasonable to me!

tvjunki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725535#Comment_119725535

Some of that time should be still counted. Just delaying the inevitable. I thought the tenant was only allowed 28days to appeal to RTB if there is a breach or if not 90days? Still a long time to challenge notice.

dennis72

Private LLs don't rent out forever homes

They rent properties that accommodate short & term long under a managed contract

Now that product is outlawed just like the bedsits hey have left with more to follow.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739430#Comment_119739430

Ya huge push for another termination notice freeze. Like the last time we will see some tenant's use it as a way to stop paying there rent. If they do when the freeze ends there will be a massive amount of LL's will exit.

DownByTheGarden

Interesting thread.

I too am joining the former landlords and heading for the hills.

Current tenant is moving out in December. Had an estate agent up during the week and its going on sale as soon as the tenant leaves. The tenant wont overstay because they are leaving to go home to their own country and i have no complaints about them so no worries on that front. I just dont want to rent it out again. Its not worth it to us anymore. Inflation is rampant and we jusr arent going to put the money in that needs doing for the pittance we could raise the rent to cover it. Its already well below market rent anyway. We just weighted up the risk vs the benefit and the risk tipped the scales by a huge margin for us.

The previous 2 tenants left owing €6k and €3k and i think we got off lightly according to others we have spoken too. Cant wait to see the back of it at this point.

TenMoreMinutes

Also leaving the private LL market here.

Issued Notice of Termination in November 2021 as I need the property back for an immediate family member, tenant had over 120 days proper notice given, tenant was due out in March.

Tenant appealed to the RTB on the basis that I was lying about needing the property for my family. Went to adjudication in March, had to wait to May for the result, we won and the notice was deemed valid.

Tenant appealed the adjudication result and we had a full tribunal in August, and he has not paid the two months of rent that he should have paid for September/October. We are hopeful that the result will come soon, but it has been over 2 months and the RTB have no update as of yet. We are now going to have to chase those rent arrears as well.

We are confident that we are going to win as all the tenant has is speculation and accusations that we are only doing it to get rid of him. The length of time he has had possession of my property when my family has a sincere and genuine need for it, and we followed the law to the letter, is honestly so upsetting that I would never recommend anyone becoming a private landlord ever.

Now the talk of a moratorium on evictions has my nerves shot, no idea if it will affect me, but I truly cannot be carrying on like this for another three months after a year of this stress. What was supposed to be an investment and retirement security has become something I try not to think about because it upsets me so.

I do feel for the young people in this country and those who don't have the means to buy for themselves. They will be taken advantage of by faceless and non-sympathetic investment companies because there'll be no small private landlords left.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119758394#Comment_119758394

You should start serving eviction notice for rent arrears in parallel.

TenMoreMinutes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119758423#Comment_119758423

You are 100% correct, we have done the warning letter three weeks ago which gives them 28 days to clear the arrears. Notice of Termination comes next week. Got to cover all the bases!

Bit cynical

Would a couple of simple rules not solve a lot of problems for tenants of amateur landlords?

1. Selling a property should not be grounds for eviction. If a tenant is in compliance with the lease, then the house can be sold with the tenant in situ.
2. Moving a family member in to the property or the landlord himself should not be grounds for eviction while the lease is in place.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119762448#Comment_119762448

Selling a property with tenants in situ severely limits the type of prospective buyers as it would exclude anyone who wants to occupy the property and needs a mortgage. Banks require vacant possession if the buyer plans to live there, without this cohort of buyers, the seller would be limited to cash buyers or those who can obtain a BTL mortgage, significantly affecting the value of the property. Also, any rights a tenant has should have some modicum of fairness, such as the ability to reside in the house you own, or to allow a close family member to.

Your “rules” would certainly have unintended consequences, most notably, to push “amateur” landlords for quickly towards the exit door, and discourage even further “amateur” landlords from investing in rental properties. Do you see that as benefitting tenants?

TenMoreMinutes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119762448#Comment_119762448

Your comments are ridiculous.

In your world, as soon as a tenancy becomes a part 4 tenancy the owner essentially loses all rights to the property unless the tenant breaches the lease to such a degree that it justifies termination. It means the tenant can stay indefinitely no matter what the owner wishes to do with the property. Essentially you would have to accept that you may have to keep it as a rental property indefinitely by law, or have to sell with a tenant in situ, meaning that any prospective property owners would also have to assume they would be obliged to keep it as a rental property indefinitely by law.

Why would anyone rent out their property in a system that so blatantly disadvantages them in relation to property rights?